The logic of Trinitarians and Jehovah's Witnesses...
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Another person in that the Father is an eternal Spirit inhabiting eternity and the Son is come in human flesh.
The same Person in that it is the same Spirit who is both of them.
101G
Well-Known Member
Just saw this topic. well now, not saying that any is right or wrong, but condider this. the Son was not "WITH" God in the beginning at Genesis 1:1 but was to come. consider this, 1 John 1:1 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;"
1 John 1:2 "(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)"
HOLD IT, John was not at the beginning of Genesis 1:1, to see, or handle, or touch the word, no, the beginning here at John 1:1 is the ordinal last coming. remember Isaiah 44:24, God the LORD was alone, and by himself, no one was "WITH" as in beside him.
no, John 1:1 is the beginning or the manifestation of the the Ordinal Last, God himself "shared" in flesh, the Son. scripture, Mark 1:1 "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;". see the gospel, or the WORD of God in person, or manifested.
understand the term "Beginning", and "With".
first, "BEGINNING". it is the Greek word,
G746 ἀρχή arche (ar-chee') n.
1. (properly abstract) a commencement.
2. (concretely) chief (in various applications of order, time, place, or rank).
[from G756]
KJV: beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule
Root(s): G756
notice definition #2. "concretely" meaning "concrete", for God is a "Spirit", (abstract). now MANIFESTED in flesh what was, ..... again, what was, abstract, unseen. that which was unseen is now seen. but definition #2. clearly reveals John 1:1 of a beginning, in a. order... remember this, and in time. what John 1:1 is declearing is the coming of the one true God "shared" in flesh, (see Isaiah 35:4). this is the another of the the "us" and the "our" in Genesis 1:26.... (smile). listen to the ORDER, TIME, PLACE and RANK. Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" what do "ONE" here means?.
ONE: H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
there it is, the ordinal FIRST, and by the ordinal First coming in or Manifesting in flesh in TIME, PLACE and in RANK/ORDER, (BEGINNING), he's the Ordinal Last, or the Last Adam, (GOD "shared" IN FLESH). see, Beginning is indicating, TIME/or DISPENSATION, at this place in time, in this order in TIME, hence the Last, the ordinal last.
now in another topic, I have stated, that the DISPENSATION of God, the Holy Spirit is A. First dispensation, LORD, Father, "CREATOR", amd "MAKER". his, B. second dispensation, Lord, Son, "shared" in flesh, "REDEEMER", and "SAVIOUR". and in this GRACE, Glorified in flesh, meaning just what Colossians 2:9 clearly states, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." BINGO. in that diversified state of Glorification, he as God can sit and stand at the same time while in the glorified diversified state as he did in the natural state of flesh and blood.... ain't God great, when you know and understand.
so the beginning at John 1:1 is when God came in flesh. meaning that he God "shared" himself equally in natural flesh, this is bare out in our second term in John 1:1 ... "WITH". many people think "with" here means two person next to each other.... ERROR, let the bible confirm what "WITH" means when it comes to understanding the Godhead.
supportive scripture, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." this sounds like two person... the First "with" the Last, but everyone knows that Jesus is the first and the Last.... there is that "and" again. but no problem, listen to the "and" to understand. Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." so is this two separate person?, NO, remember many say the "and" makes the separation of the First "and" the Last, like many say in John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." here many say God is not Jesus, it's two separate person, the Father and the Son. well lets see if this holds water. back to Isaiah, in Isaiah 41:4 we have the First is "WITH" the Last, (as in John 1:1 the WORD "WITH" God). and in Isaiah 44:6 we have the First "AND" the Last, (as in John 17:3). now this,
Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."uh O, that "ALSO" just blowed that "AND", and "WITH" out of the water, making the First and the last as SEPARATE PERSON. do one now see their mistake. "ALSO" in Isaiah 48:12 shows that it is ONLY ONE PERSON. the First is "ALSO" the Last, ONE and the SAME person. did one notice the, "I", the I AM "he" in every verse, indicating ONLY ONE PERSON?
is the Light blubs coming on now?.
the Father is the Son "diversified", or "Shared" EQUALLY in flesh...... BINGO, NEWS FLASH, the Father is the Son shared in flesh.
what else to say.
PICJAG.
1 John 1:2 "(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)"
HOLD IT, John was not at the beginning of Genesis 1:1, to see, or handle, or touch the word, no, the beginning here at John 1:1 is the ordinal last coming. remember Isaiah 44:24, God the LORD was alone, and by himself, no one was "WITH" as in beside him.
no, John 1:1 is the beginning or the manifestation of the the Ordinal Last, God himself "shared" in flesh, the Son. scripture, Mark 1:1 "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;". see the gospel, or the WORD of God in person, or manifested.
understand the term "Beginning", and "With".
first, "BEGINNING". it is the Greek word,
G746 ἀρχή arche (ar-chee') n.
1. (properly abstract) a commencement.
2. (concretely) chief (in various applications of order, time, place, or rank).
[from G756]
KJV: beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule
Root(s): G756
notice definition #2. "concretely" meaning "concrete", for God is a "Spirit", (abstract). now MANIFESTED in flesh what was, ..... again, what was, abstract, unseen. that which was unseen is now seen. but definition #2. clearly reveals John 1:1 of a beginning, in a. order... remember this, and in time. what John 1:1 is declearing is the coming of the one true God "shared" in flesh, (see Isaiah 35:4). this is the another of the the "us" and the "our" in Genesis 1:26.... (smile). listen to the ORDER, TIME, PLACE and RANK. Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" what do "ONE" here means?.
ONE: H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
there it is, the ordinal FIRST, and by the ordinal First coming in or Manifesting in flesh in TIME, PLACE and in RANK/ORDER, (BEGINNING), he's the Ordinal Last, or the Last Adam, (GOD "shared" IN FLESH). see, Beginning is indicating, TIME/or DISPENSATION, at this place in time, in this order in TIME, hence the Last, the ordinal last.
now in another topic, I have stated, that the DISPENSATION of God, the Holy Spirit is A. First dispensation, LORD, Father, "CREATOR", amd "MAKER". his, B. second dispensation, Lord, Son, "shared" in flesh, "REDEEMER", and "SAVIOUR". and in this GRACE, Glorified in flesh, meaning just what Colossians 2:9 clearly states, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." BINGO. in that diversified state of Glorification, he as God can sit and stand at the same time while in the glorified diversified state as he did in the natural state of flesh and blood.... ain't God great, when you know and understand.
so the beginning at John 1:1 is when God came in flesh. meaning that he God "shared" himself equally in natural flesh, this is bare out in our second term in John 1:1 ... "WITH". many people think "with" here means two person next to each other.... ERROR, let the bible confirm what "WITH" means when it comes to understanding the Godhead.
supportive scripture, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." this sounds like two person... the First "with" the Last, but everyone knows that Jesus is the first and the Last.... there is that "and" again. but no problem, listen to the "and" to understand. Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." so is this two separate person?, NO, remember many say the "and" makes the separation of the First "and" the Last, like many say in John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." here many say God is not Jesus, it's two separate person, the Father and the Son. well lets see if this holds water. back to Isaiah, in Isaiah 41:4 we have the First is "WITH" the Last, (as in John 1:1 the WORD "WITH" God). and in Isaiah 44:6 we have the First "AND" the Last, (as in John 17:3). now this,
Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."uh O, that "ALSO" just blowed that "AND", and "WITH" out of the water, making the First and the last as SEPARATE PERSON. do one now see their mistake. "ALSO" in Isaiah 48:12 shows that it is ONLY ONE PERSON. the First is "ALSO" the Last, ONE and the SAME person. did one notice the, "I", the I AM "he" in every verse, indicating ONLY ONE PERSON?
is the Light blubs coming on now?.
the Father is the Son "diversified", or "Shared" EQUALLY in flesh...... BINGO, NEWS FLASH, the Father is the Son shared in flesh.
what else to say.
PICJAG.
John 1:1 (KJV)1 the Word was God.
(GenevaBible)1 that Word was God.
(ASV)1 the Word was God.
(AMP)1 the Word was God Himself.
(MontgomeryNT)1 the Word was God.
(CEB)1 the Word was God.
(CJB)1 the Word was God.
(Darby)1 the Word was God.
(ESV)1 the Word was God.
(HCSB)1 the Word was God.
(MaceNT)1 the Logos was God.
(NASB)1 the Word was God.
(NIV)1 the Word was God.
(NJB)1 the Word was God.
(NKJV)1 the Word was God.
(NRSV)1 the Word was God.
(RSV)1 the Word was God.
(TLB)1 is himself God.
(WesleyNT)1 the Word was God.
(WEY)1 the Word was God.
(YLT)1 the Word was God;
(Webster's Bible)1 the Word was God.
(MSG)1 The Word was God,
Amen, Jesus is God!
ThePuffyBlob
Well-Known Member
this was also what i understand the first time i read this verse the verse was telling me that christ was the creator back in 2017-2018 but now is different i have a different understanding
It doesn't matter if at the end is written God or divine, both have the same meaning. But why I took divine is because the bible wants to say that the word is not a person but the expression of God.
Everything that God says comes out of his spirit, it is the expression of his thoughts.
YeshuaFan1
Active Member
YeshuaFan1
Active Member
YeshuaFan1
Active Member
Cooper
Well-Known Member
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Come on... answer the question What version is it?
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(John 1:1 KJV-1611)
In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God.
(John 1:1 Geneva 1587)
In the begynnyng was the worde, and the worde was with God: and that worde was God.
(John 1:1 Bishops 1568)
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
ThePuffyBlob
Well-Known Member
i don't think i can explain it yet not sure if you can understand if i say it like this
For by him were all things created,
he is the firstborn of all creature he is the image of the invisible God
by the genes of christ jesus all creature has been made
by the flesh/image of the son of God every creature has been designed and created
what does angels look like? they probably look like a man right?
@BasuraAko,
In denying that Jesus is the divine Creator, you have departed from sound doctrine. I would suggest that you return.
In denying that Jesus is the divine Creator, you have departed from sound doctrine. I would suggest that you return.
ThePuffyBlob
Well-Known Member
sorry i do not believe in trinity
and how would i return when the place is too foreign i can't seem to understand what your beliefs and why you believe it
ThePuffyBlob
Well-Known Member
by what i understand now the son God is not the creator but the model of all creature and the father God is the real creator
ThePuffyBlob
Well-Known Member
john 1:1 is spiritual in time i will be able to understand it
ephesians 3:9 do not forget that there is the father God
crap am i debating with you no i am not and i do not want debates
thank you for sharing i will just continue reading i am still younger than christ the time he preaches
YeshuaFan1
Active Member
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