The Lord's Day (Rev. 1:10) - Sabbath (7th) or Sunday (1st) or Eschatological day or something else?

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The Lord's Day (Rev. 1:10) - Sabbath (7th) or Sunday (1st) or Eschatological day or something else?

  • A day known only to God, could be any day of the week, month or year

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I don't know, I am still studying this one out

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No one knows, nor can ever know, so stop asking about it, it's pointless vanity

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It's the 'eighth day', the coming of the Ogdoad cycles' return

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Everyday, for all days are the Lord's days

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    12

Robert Gwin

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That is not a translation "error", that is a translation "choice" made by the KJ translators, who followed the lead of the NT Apostles and disciples, who were filled with the Holy Ghost. Look again at what I said in response to the question.

"The "LORD" (JEHOVAH) said unto my "Lord" (Adonai)"?

What translation error?

It's quoted in Matthew 22:44; Luke 20:42; Acts 2:34."

Matthew 22:44 in koine Greek reads:
Εἶπεν ὁ κύριος τῷ κυρίῳ μου· Κάθου ἐκ δεξιῶν μου ἕως ἂν θῶ τοὺς ἐχθρούς σου ὑποπόδιον τῶν ποδῶν σου

Show me where Matthew the Apostle, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, uses "IEOVAH" or the Greek equivalent of "Ιεχώβα" or even "ΙΑΩ". Show me one single NT Ms in koine Greek out of the many we have extant that Ps. 110:1 was translated as you would, rather than as done.

Luke 20:42 in the koine Greek reads:
καὶ αὐτὸς Δαβὶδ λέγει ἐν βίβλῳ ψαλμῶν Εἶπεν ὁ κύριος τῷ κυρίῳ μου· Κάθου ἐκ δεξιῶν μου

Show me where Luke the Physician and Gospel writer, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, uses "IEOVAH" or the Greek equivalent of "Ιεχώβα" or even "ΙΑΩ". Show me one single NT Ms in koine Greek out of the many we have extant that Ps. 110:1 was translated as you would, rather than as done.

Acts 2:34 in the koine Greek reads:
οὐ γὰρ Δαβὶδ ἀνέβη εἰς τοὺς οὐρανούς λέγει δὲ αὐτός Εἶπεν ὁ κύριος τῷ κυρίῳ μου Κάθου ἐκ δεξιῶν μου

Show me where Luke the Physician and Acts writer, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, uses "IEOVAH" or the Greek equivalent of "Ιεχώβα" or even "ΙΑΩ". Show me one single NT Ms in koine Greek out of the many we have extant that Ps. 110:1 was translated as you would, rather than as done.

Even the so called lxx (origens hexapla) in Psalms 109:1 (110:1) does this:
τῷ Δαυιδ ψαλμός εἶπεν ὁ κύριος τῷ κυρίῳ μου κάθου ἐκ δεξιῶν μου ἕως ἂν θῶ τοὺς ἐχθρούς σου ὑποπόδιον τῶν ποδῶν σου

You say that a proper translation needs to have JEHOVAH. Why then does the NWT in those 3 NT places not, as you say, properly translate, "kurious" to Lord, rather than to JEHOVAH? What is the difference? There is none. It is simply a translation choice.

The NWT likes to make the name JEHOVAH common. That is their choice.

The KJB likes to make the name JEHOVAH rare, so as not to make it common. That is their choice. The KJB translators did not want the name JEHOVAH so common it became non sacred. For instance, I do not go around using my earthly father's name except in specific and rare circumstances. When I speak to my earthly father, I say, "Dad", "Father", etc and keep his actual name in reserve, for respect. I am not his equal in familial authority.

Matthew was a NT Jew. They all used the name of God, rarely.

Even Luke (supposedly a Greek), followed in the same fashion as those who sought not to abuse the name by speaking or writing it commonly.

Don't misunderstand me. There are two extremes. The one extreme is found in the NWT, translating JEHOVAH everywhere, even in the NT, where not a single koine Greek Ms exists to support doing so, and making the name common. The other extreme removes the name JEHOVAH entirely from OT such as some modern 'translations' into English do. The KJB avoids both extremes.

So, why do you fault the KJB translators in the OT, and you do not fault the NWT in the NT? Why do you fault the KJB translators in the OT for translating those texts, even as the NT writers Matthew and Luke, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, did?

You got the point RE, deliberately changing God's name to LORD is extremely severe. In fact I would venture to say that manipulation is one of the biggest factors in people rejecting Jehovah today. I proved my case.
 

Robert Gwin

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You just failed your own test, and Seventh-day Adventists succeeded in your own test:

Luk 4:16: "And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read."

Jesus pattern was to go to sacred gathering on the Seventh day to keep Sabbath with all who worshipped JEHOVAH.

I don't know what "JEHOVAH" you are worshipping by not obeying even so simple a commandment, Exodus 20:8-11. Jesus never did what you, WTS, do by trampling upon the holy day of JEHOVAH. You, WTS, have a counterfeit JEHOVAH.

Deu 32:30: "How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up?"

Deu 32:31: "For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges."

When these things are brought up, the WTS run. They try to make excuse for their disobedience to the real Creator JEHOVAH. Paul never did that, see Acts 14:15-16, citing Exodus 20:11.

I am glad your faith meets those qualifiers sir, but you stated mine did not, may I ask how?
 

ReChoired

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You got the point RE, deliberately changing God's name to LORD is extremely severe. In fact I would venture to say that manipulation is one of the biggest factors in people rejecting Jehovah today. I proved my case.
People do not reject JEHOVAH simply because they do not know the spelling of the name. They reject JEHOVAH because of who He is - Love, and they don't want to live that way - selfless, they would rather live selfishly if they could. You did not prove anything except your stubborn refusal and bias about what I asked and showed you.

You go so far as to blame even the Holy Spirit inspired Apostles and Disciples who, when quoting OT in the NT, which used the name of God, and translated 'Lord' (kurios), just so you are in the right, when doing so blasphemes the Holy Ghost, which is just another reason that most in the WTS will be lost (beyond John 8:58).
 

Robert Gwin

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People do not reject JEHOVAH simply because they do not know the spelling of the name. They reject JEHOVAH because of who He is - Love, and they don't want to live that way - selfless, they would rather live selfishly if they could. You did not prove anything except your stubborn refusal and bias about what I asked and showed you.

You go so far as to blame even the Holy Spirit inspired Apostles and Disciples who, when quoting OT in the NT, which used the name of God, and translated 'Lord' (kurios), just so you are in the right, when doing so blasphemes the Holy Ghost, which is just another reason that most in the WTS will be lost (beyond John 8:58).

I know a lot of people who think they are serving Jehovah Re, yet they never use His name. His name occurred 6973 times in the original writing as stated by one source, true or false, His name does occur more than any other name, and the Bible is quite clear that calling upon His name is a requirement for salvation Rom 10:13. True, it means more than just saying Jehovah save me, but no one has a relationship with someone with whom they do not know their name. Substituting God's name in the Bible was a deliberate act, and that is the indisputable fact I was stating. I have little doubt that the King James Version of the Bible is the main reason that most who claim to be Christian are not able to Give God's name when asked.
 

stunnedbygrace

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10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

I do not think John was carefully recording what day of the week it was when he received the vision of what was to come. I think he was saying he was taken in the Spirit to the future Day of the Lord.

I also think he was careful to note he was in the Spirit, not as if he was at all times in the Spirit.
 

ReChoired

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I do not think John was carefully recording what day of the week it was when he received the vision of what was to come. I think he was saying he was taken in the Spirit to the future Day of the Lord.
You keep saying, "I think". This is the problem that continually persists in all the division, on this, and any other subject discussed in Scripture.

Study what God said in the word, and know that God did not leave the word open to interpretation other than His own (Isaiah 8:20).

In other words, it should not be, "I think" (speculation based in subjective), but rather, "Thus saith the LORD", "It is written".
 

ReChoired

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I have little doubt that the King James Version of the Bible is the main reason that most who claim to be Christian are not able to Give God's name when asked.
Have you even read the King James Bible? It has the name JEHOVAH in it!, while many modern English 'translations' remove the name entirely.

Have you even read materials by King James or the translators or works of such nature from 1611 to 1900? They all use JEHOVAH in them.
 

stunnedbygrace

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You keep saying, "I think". This is the problem that continually persists in all the division, on this, and any other subject discussed in Scripture.

Study what God said in the word, and know that God did not leave the word open to interpretation other than His own (Isaiah 8:20).

In other words, it should not be, "I think" (speculation based in subjective), but rather, "Thus saith the LORD", "It is written".

You’re a funny guy!
 

ReChoired

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and the Bible is quite clear that calling upon His name is a requirement for salvation Rom 10:13
Did you even read the context of Romans 10:13?

Romans 10:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The "Lord" (JEHOVAH) of vs 13 is the Son, Jesus Christ. Vs 11 has Paul referring to several places in Psalms like Psalms 31 and Paul by inspiration of the Holy Ghost, identifies the "LORD" there, as the Son, Jesus:

Ps 31:17: "Let me not be ashamed, O LORD; for I have called upon thee: let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in the grave."

Joel 2:32: "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call."

The same thing is in Acts 2. Calling upon the name of the Lord, refers to Jesus Christ. Peter cites Joel there as well. He is both "Lord" and "Christ" who people were to call upon and be saved, and in the name of Jesus be baptized.
 

JohnPaul

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(POLL - Multiple Choice allowed, change of choice allowed, and ongoing choice allowed; after voting, then present your evidences in thread response please)

The Lord's Day (Rev. 1:10) - Sabbath (7th) or Sunday (1st) or Eschatological day or something else? The Bible says:

Revelation 1:1 - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation 1:2 - Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

Revelation 1:3 - Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Revelation 1:4 - John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Revelation 1:5 - And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Revelation 1:6 - And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 1:7 - Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Revelation 1:8 - I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 1:9 - I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:10 - I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

The answer is in the context, as it always is (Isaiah 8:20, 28:10,13; John 10:35; 2 Peter 1:19-21; Genesis 40:8).
It should be the seventh day as God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh day, Saturday.
 

Lambano

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That is not a translation "error", that is a translation "choice" made by the KJ translators...

That choice was made by the 70 translators of the Septuagint who translated the Hebrew scriptures into Greek two centuries before Christ. The authors of the New Testament typically quoted the Septuagint version when quoting the OT. I say "typically", because Paul has a couple of idiosyncratic translations in his writings.

Septuagint - Wikipedia

My wife and I talked to a Rabbi many years ago. To this day, when reading Torah in Hebrew, Jewish people will substitute Adonai ("LORD") for יְהוָה out of respect for The Name and concerns that the pronunciation would not be correct. I would conclude this convention was in place 2200 years ago when the LXX was translated. Most modern translations of the Hebrew scriptures follow this convention.
 

Robert Gwin

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Have you even read the King James Bible? It has the name JEHOVAH in it!, while many modern English 'translations' remove the name entirely.

Have you even read materials by King James or the translators or works of such nature from 1611 to 1900? They all use JEHOVAH in them.

We have discussed this Re, particularly the alterations that you yourself acknowledged (Post 39). Changing Jehovah to Lord is a very serious offense, and like I said, is logically the reason that most cannot give you God's name when you ask.
 

Robert Gwin

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Did you even read the context of Romans 10:13?

Romans 10:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The "Lord" (JEHOVAH) of vs 13 is the Son, Jesus Christ. Vs 11 has Paul referring to several places in Psalms like Psalms 31 and Paul by inspiration of the Holy Ghost, identifies the "LORD" there, as the Son, Jesus:

Ps 31:17: "Let me not be ashamed, O LORD; for I have called upon thee: let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in the grave."

Joel 2:32: "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call."

The same thing is in Acts 2. Calling upon the name of the Lord, refers to Jesus Christ. Peter cites Joel there as well. He is both "Lord" and "Christ" who people were to call upon and be saved, and in the name of Jesus be baptized.

I understand that it is confusing, but at least you recognize v 13 is referring to Jehovah. If you have a cross reference version, you will see that Rom 10:13 is not new but Paul was quoting Joel 2:32 which included Jehovah in the verse. You even showed that in your post, good for you sir.
 

ReChoired

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I understand that it is confusing, but at least you recognize v 13 is referring to Jehovah. If you have a cross reference version, you will see that Rom 10:13 is not new but Paul was quoting Joel 2:32 which included Jehovah in the verse. You even showed that in your post, good for you sir.
I didn't say it was confusing at all. I stated that Paul was clear. Jesus is the "Lord" (JEHOVAH) in Romans 10, citing Psalms 31:17; Joel 2:32 applying it to Jesus (God with us).

It's only confusing to you because you do not accept Paul's use of those texts and application of them to "the Lord Jesus".

Acts 4:12: "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Phil 2:10: "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;"
 

Robert Gwin

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I didn't say it was confusing at all. I stated that Paul was clear. Jesus is the "Lord" (JEHOVAH) in Romans 10, citing Psalms 31:17; Joel 2:32 applying it to Jesus (God with us).

It's only confusing to you because you do not accept Paul's use of those texts and application of them to "the Lord Jesus".

Acts 4:12: "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Phil 2:10: "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;"

We disagree, Jesus is Jehovah's son, not Jehovah.
 

JohnPaul

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I didn't say it was confusing at all. I stated that Paul was clear. Jesus is the "Lord" (JEHOVAH) in Romans 10, citing Psalms 31:17; Joel 2:32 applying it to Jesus (God with us).

It's only confusing to you because you do not accept Paul's use of those texts and application of them to "the Lord Jesus".

Acts 4:12: "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Phil 2:10: "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;"
Jesus is not our Lord Jehovah, but his son.

Jehovah's Sabbath day is Saturday, the seventh day.
 

JunChosen

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The "Day of the Lord" has always either pointed to the "Second Coming of Jesus" or "Judgement Day."

Just look at the language set forth in Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9.

[QUOTE="JohnPaul, post: 1240758, member: 8239"]Jesus is not our Lord Jehovah, but his son[/QUOTE]

You are in error!

There are three distinct persons that consists in the name Jehovah, per Deuteronomy 6:4.
 

JunChosen

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Jesus is not our Lord Jehovah, but his son.
God assigns many names to Himself to distinguish His many characters such as His essence and substance. For example, He assigns to Himself the name Jesus, which means Saviour.

Isaiah 43:11 reads:
"I, even I, am the LORD [Jehovah]; and beside me there is no saviour."
If there is no other Saviour beside God, then Jesus IS God! Matthew 1:23.

Deuteronomy 6:4
"Hear, O Israel: the LORD [YHWH/Jehovah] our God is one LORD."

Why do people quibble over something they know nothing about?

Be it known, that the 12 Apostles were monotheistic Jews! Therefore they knew there is only ONE God.

In this country, we have a saying and I quote, "A rose in any other name is still a rose."

To God Be The Glory
 
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JunChosen

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@Robert Gwin and @JohnPaul said:

We disagree, Jesus is not our Lord Jehovah, but his son.


If Jesus is NOT JEHOVAH GOD then you are in trouble! BECAUSE only God can forgive sins!

Even the Pharisees who are unsaved know that!

To God Be The Glory
 

Robert Gwin

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@Robert Gwin and @JohnPaul said:

We disagree, Jesus is not our Lord Jehovah, but his son.

If Jesus is NOT JEHOVAH GOD then you are in trouble! BECAUSE only God can forgive sins!

Even the Pharisees who are unsaved know that!

To God Be The Glory

Actually Jun, Jesus was given the right to forgive sins, as well as the apostles. Jesus was actually chastised for that very thing if you remember: Luke 5:21 the scribes and the Pharisees started to reason, saying: “Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins except God alone?” 22 But Jesus, discerning their reasoning, said in answer to them: “What are you reasoning in your hearts? 23 Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? 24 But in order for you to know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins—” he said to the paralyzed man: “I say to you, Get up, pick up your stretcher, and go to your home.” 25 At that he stood up before them, picked up what he had been lying on, and went to his home, glorifying God. 26 Then one and all were seized with amazement, and they began to glorify God

As to the apostles: (John 20:21-23) . . .Jesus said to them again: “May you have peace. Just as the Father has sent me, I also am sending you.” 22 After saying this he blew on them and said to them: “Receive holy spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you retain those of anyone, they are retained.”

To be quite blunt sir, quite opposite of what you said, if Jesus is actually God then we are in great peril, for what hope can you have from the very things that satan is accused of, deception and lies. He would be the biggest deceiver of all times, promoting another God than himself, ventroliquisting God's voice from heaven as if it wasn't his, saying that God's will could be other than his own, and point blank lying at Mark 10:40 and 13:32. No I fully believe that Jesus was correct when he said these words to satan at Mat 4:10: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”
In fact if Jesus was God what kind of temptation would all the kingdoms of the world be, and why on earth would God bow down to him?