GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
John was very familiar with Isaiah's writings.
Isaiah 58:13 makes clear what day is very special to the Lord, as well as Genesis 2:2-3. All material that was available, and very well known, to John.
The Lord's Day (Rev. 1:10) - Sabbath (7th) or Sunday (1st) or Eschatological day or something else?
- Thread starter ReChoired
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Isaiah 58:13 makes clear what day is very special to the Lord, as well as Genesis 2:2-3. All material that was available, and very well known, to John.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Isaiah 58:13; Genesis 2:1-3; and Hebrews 3-4.
The Phrase "the Lord's day" is found in use in the OT, as shown from Isaiah 58:13, etc. John is not making up any novel (new) idea, but the Holy Ghost is inspiring and citing from the OT scriptures, as is done all over Revelation 1. Called an "epanados”, Chiasm or parallelism:
(1) Isaiah 55:4 --> Revelation 1:5 (Witness)
(2) Daniel 7:13 --> Revelation 1:7 (Coming with Clouds of angels)
(3) Zechariah 12:10-14 --> Revelation 1:7 (Pierced and Wail)
(4) Isaiah 41:4,6 --> Revelation 1:8 (I AM)
(5) Isaiah 58:13 --> Revelation 1:10 (The Lord's day)
(4) Isaiah 41:4,6 --> Revelation 1:11 (I AM)
(3) Zechariah 4:2 --> Revelation 1:12 (Candlestick, Sanctuary, Holy Place)
(2) Daniel 7:9,13,22 --> Revelation 1:13-15 (Priest)
(1) Isaiah 49:2 --> Revelation 1:16 (Sharp Sword)
Revelation 1:10 is simply citing Isaiah 58:13 in the midst of the parallelism from the OT.
Now for the parallel of language of "word of God" (commandments, law) and "testimony of Jesus Christ" (spirit of Prophecy, vision):
The context shows that John was on the Isle of Patmos for what reason?
Revelation 1:2 - ... the word of God ... the testimony of Jesus Christ …
Revelation 1:9 - ... the word of God ... the testimony of Jesus Christ …
It is even given in other places:
Revelation 6:9 - ... the word of God ... the testimony ...
Revelation 20:4 - ... the witness of Jesus ... the word of God ...
What is this "word of God" and the "testimony/witness of Jesus"? No need to guess:
Revelation 12:17 - ... the commandments of God ... the testimony of Jesus Christ.
This is found way back in the OT:
Deuteronomy 4:2 - ... the word which I command you, ... the commandments of the LORD your God ...
So, when John references "the Lord's day", it is in the context of "the word of God", which are God's Commandments. Well, which commandment then? John tells us:
Revelation 14:7 - ... worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Revelation 14:12 - ... keep the commandments of God ... the faith of Jesus.
What specific commandment was John citing? The 4th Commandment, specifically, Exodus 20:11,
Exodus 20:11 - For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
That little word "of" (Exodus 20:8-11) is possessive. The LORD has chosen a specific (definite article) "day”. It is thus "the LORD('s) ... day", being His sabbath, the 7th day, from the foundation of the world in Genesis 2:1-3,4, where therein it is "God('s; the LORD's) ... day".
The "word of God" = God's commandments:
Isaiah 1:10 - ... the word of the LORD ... the law of our God ...
and the "testimony of Jesus" is the Spirit of prophecy (Revelation 19:10):
2 Kings 17:13 - ... the LORD testified ... by all the prophets, and by all the seers ... keep my commandments ... the law which I commanded ... by my servants the prophets.
Psalms 19:7 - The law of the LORD ... the testimony of the LORD ...
Psalms 78:5 - ... a testimony ... a law ...
Proverbs 29:18 - ... vision ... the law ...
Isaiah 8:16 - ... the testimony ... the law ...
Isaiah 8:20 - ... the law ... the testimony ... this word ...
Lamentations 2:9 - ... the law ... prophets ... vision from the LORD.
Ezekiel 7:26 - ... a vision of the prophet ... the law ...
Matthew 22:40 - ... the law ... the prophets.
Romans 3:21 - ... the law ... the prophets;
The Apostle and prophet John receives a "vision" in connection with keeping God's commandments; resting specifically on "the LORD's day":
Revelation 1:10 - I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
The Law (Lord's day) and the testimony (spirit of prophecy) are witnessed in proper context.
It always speaks of the 7th day the sabbath of the LORD, His holy day.
Line upon line, and no need for a single non-scriptural source to re-define by the man of sin's tradition, the so-called ‘ECF” (Easily Confused Fellows), or imaginative commentaries.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Rev 1 is a very confusing chapter RE, some verses apply to Jehovah and some to Jesus, can be difficult ascertaining which ones belong to whom. Some versions of the Bible omit God after Lord in verse 8 which can lead one to believe that Jesus is the Almighty, a term used exclusively referring to Jehovah. The other account is much easier to understand.
No, it is not confusing at all.
The "NWT" (please cease from hinting, just speak plainly) is a poorly 'translated' mess from Roman Catholic mss (Codex Alpeh, Sinaiticus, and Codex B, Vaticanus, and A, Alexandrinus, some of the most emended 'text's on earth, etc), codices, etc is hardly accurate. The Chiastic structure of Revelation is built in by the Holy Ghost, and it ties into the rest of Revelation, and scripture (KJB) cannot be broken (John 10:35 KJB), the very 'bones' requires both, and to eliminate one is to actually break the text as the 'NWT' does:
Vs 5,6,7 are all about Jesus, and is the one 'coming' with "clouds", even as the parallel in Revelation 22:11-13,20 reveals.
Vs 8 is Jesus speaking, signing off, as in Revelation 22:13, for in vs 22:12 Jesus speaks of the "reward with" himself, as Matthew 16:27; Colossians 3:24; 2 Timothy 4:8,14; John 5:22,27.
See the entire structure here - Michael The Archangel [X6] Appendix 6 – Daniel & The Revelation Compared, 7 Branch Candlestick : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
See the entire structure here - Michael The Archangel [X6] Appendix 6 – Daniel & The Revelation Compared, 7 Branch Candlestick : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Rev. 1:1,4,6, 3:21
“... which God [the Father] ...”, “... him which is, and which was, and which is to come ...”, “... his throne ...”, “... God and his father ...”, “... Father in his throne.”
Rev. 21:5, 22:1,3
“... And he that sat upon the throne ...”, “... throne of God [the Father] ...”
Rev. 1:1,2,5,9 (x2)
“... Jesus Christ ...”
Rev. 22:16,20,21
“... Jesus ...”, “... Lord Jesus ...”, “... Lord Jesus Christ ...”
Rev. 1:1
“... his angel ...”
Rev. 22:6,16
“... his angel ...”, “... mine angel ...”
Rev. 1:1
“... servant ...”
Rev. 22:3,6
“... servants ...”
Rev. 1:2,9
“... testimony of Jesus Christ ...”
Rev. 22:16,18,20
“... I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify ...”, “... For I testify ...”, “... testifieth ...”
Rev. 1:3
“Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.”
Rev. 22:7,9
“Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.”, “Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.”
Rev. 1:3
“... the words of this prophecy ...”
Rev. 22:7,18,19
“... the sayings of the prophecy ...”, “... the words of the prophecy ...”, “... the words of the book of this prophecy ...”
Rev. 1:3
“... the time is at hand ...”
Rev. 22:10
“... the time is at hand ...”
Rev. 1:4(x2),11,12,13,16,20(x6), 2:1(x2), 3:1(x2), 4:5(x2), 5:1,5,6(x3)
“... seven ...”
Rev. 21:9(x3)
“... seven ...”
Rev. 1:4, 4:5
“... seven Spirits [the Holy Spirit] ...”
Rev. 22:17
“... the Spirit [The Holy Spirit] ...”
Rev. 1:1,4
“... John ...”
Rev. 22:8
“... I John ...”
Rev. 1:4
“... Grace be unto you ...”
Rev. 22:21
“... The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. ...”
Rev. 1:6
“... made us kings and priests ...”
Rev. 22:5
“... they shall reign ...”
Rev. 1:6
“... for ever and ever. ...”
Rev. 22:5
“... for ever and ever.”
Rev. 1:6,7,18
“... Amen.”
Rev. 22:20,21
“... Amen.”
Rev. 1:7, 3:11
“Behold, he cometh with clouds ...”, “... Behold, I come quickly ...”
Rev. 22:7,12,20
“Behold, I come quickly ...”, “Behold, I come quickly ...”, “Surely I come quickly ...”
Rev. 1:7
“... shall see him ...”
Rev. 22:4
“... shall see his face ...”
Rev. 1:7,11,20
“... the seven churches ...”
Rev. 22:16
“... in the churches ...”
Rev. 1:8,11
“... Alpha and Omega ...”
Rev. 21:6, 22:13
“... Alpha and Omega ...”
Rev. 1:8
“... the beginning and the ending ...”
Rev. 21:6, 22:13
“... the beginning and the end ...”
Rev. 1:9
“... your brother and companion ...”
Rev. 22:9
“... thy fellowservant and of thy brethren ...”
Rev. 1:11,20, 2:7,11,17,23,29, 3:6,13,22,
“... seven churches ...”, “... seven churches ...”, “... seven churches ...”, “... the churches ...”, “... the churches ...”, “... the churches ...”, “... the churches ...”, “... the churches ...”, “... the churches ...”, “... the churches ...”, “... the churches ...”
Rev. 18:23, 21:2, 9,17, 22:16
“... the bride ...”, “... the bride ...”, “... the bride ...”, “... the bride ...”, “... in the churches ...”
Rev. 1:11,17
“... the first and the last ...”
Rev. 22:13
“... the first and the last ...”
Rev. 1:11
“... a book ...”
Rev. 22:7,9,10,18,19
“... this book ...”, “... the book ...”
Rev. 1:12,13,20 (x2)
“... candlestick ...”
Rev. 22:5
“... candle ...”
Rev. 1:7 [close of probation, followed by special resurrection, related events]
“Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”
Rev. 22:11 [close of probation, followed by special resurrection, related events]
“He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.”
Rev. 1:1,2
“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:”, “Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.”
Rev. 22:16
“I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.”
Rev. 2:7,11,17,26, 3:5,12,21
“To him that overcometh ...”, “He that overcometh ...”, “To him that overcometh ...”, “And he that overcometh ...”, “He that overcometh ...”, “Him that overcometh ...”, “To him that overcometh ...”
Rev. 21:7
“He that overcometh ...”
Rev. 2:7,10,17,26, 3:5,12,21
“... will I give ...”, “... I will give ...”, “... will I give ...”, “... will give him ...”, “... will I give ...”, “... I will not blot out his name ...”, “... I will confess ...”, “... will I make ...”, “... will I write ...”, “... I will write ...”, “... will I grant ...”
Rev. 21:6
“... I will give ...”
Rev. 2:7,11,17,26, 3:5,12,21
“... to eat of the tree of life ...”, “... not be hurt of the second death ...”, “... to eat of the hidden manna ...”, “... a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.”, “... power over the nations:”, “... the morning star.”, “... be clothed in white raiment ...”, “... not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.”, “... make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is New Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. ...”, “... grant to sit with me in my throne ...”
Rev. 21:6,7
“... that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.”, “... shall inherit all things ...”
Rev. 2:7
“... tree of life ...”, “... midst of the paradise of God.”
Rev. 22:1,2
“... pure river of water of life, clear as crystal ...”, “... either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.”
Rev. 2:11
“... the second death.”
Rev. 20:6,14, 21:8
“... the second death ...”
Rev. 2:17
“... name ...”
Rev. 22:4
“... name ...”
Rev. 2:26
“... the nations ...”
Rev. 21:24,26
“... the nations ...”, “... the nations ...”
Rev. 3:5
“... the book of life ...”
Rev. 21:27
“... the Lamb's book of life.”
Rev. 3:8
“... no man can shut ...”
Rev. 21:25
“... shall not be shut ...”
Rev. 3:9
“... but do lie ...”
Rev. 21:8,27
“... all liars ...”, “... or maketh a lie ...”
Rev. 3:12
“... the temple of my God ...”
Rev. 21:22
“... no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.”
Rev. 3:12
“... the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem ...”
Rev. 21:2,10
“... the holy city, new Jerusalem ...”, “... that great city, the holy city, new Jerusalem ...”
Rev. 3:12
“... which cometh down out of heaven from my God ...”
Rev. 21:2
“... coming down from God out of heaven ...”
Rev. 1:6, 4:9,11, 5:12,13
“... glory ...”, “... glory ...”, “... glory ...”, “... glory ...”, “... glory ...”
Rev. 21:11,23,24,26
“... glory ...”, “... glory ...”, “... glory ...”, “... glory ...”
Rev. 4:2
“... in the spirit ...”
Rev. 21:20
“... in the spirit ...”
Rev. 4:3
“... jasper ...”
Rev. 21:11,18,19
“... jasper ...”
Rev. 4:3
“... emerald ...”
Rev. 21:19
“... emerald ...”
Rev. 4:6
“... sea ...”
Rev. 21:1
“... sea ...”
Rev. 4:6
“... crystal ...”
Rev. 21:11, 22:1
“... crystal ...”, “... crystal ...”
Rev. 4:6
“... eyes ...”
Rev. 21:4
“... eyes ...”
Rev. 5:5
“... the Root of David ...”
Rev. 22:16
“... the offspring of David ...”
Rev. 5:6,8,12,13
“... the Lamb ...”
Rev. 21:9,14,22,23,27, 22:1,3
“... the Lamb ...”
Rev. 5:8
“... vials ...”
Rev. 21:9
“... vials ...”
Rev. 5:10
“... we shall reign on the earth ...”
Rev. 22:5
“... they shall reign for ever and ever.”
Rev. 5:14
“... worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.”
Rev. 22:8,9
“... worship ...”, “... worship God ...”
Reject this, and it is not rejection of myself. It will be a rejection of the inherent structure of the text as given by the Holy Ghost himself. Which means it will be a rejection of the Holy Spirit. Not a safe thing to do for anyone, just ask King Saul (OT), or Ananias and Sapphira (NT).
If you want to cling to WTS/NWT that is your business.
Desire Of All Nations
Well-Known Member
Rev. 1:10 is not referring to a day of the week or the Millennium, but rather the tail end of the Tribulation where God begins to out His wrath on this world(Isa. 2:12-21, 13:6-11, 13-19, Jer. 46:10-12 , Eze. 30:3, Joe. 1:15, 2:1-11, 31, 3:14, Amo. 5:18-20, Oba. 1:15, Zep. 1:7-18, Zech. 14:1-3, Mal. 4:5). John was sent to this particular period in time so he could understand the big picture in regards to everything that was supposed to happen after his death.
That does not take into consideration that John was shown 'past', 'present' and 'future':
Revelation 1:9 - Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
Jesus, is seen standing in the midst of (vs 12-13) the seven golden candlesticks (7 churches, vs 20), dressed as a High Priest (vs 13-15), neither of which Jesus is doing or dressed as when coming to execute judgment (Revelation 19:16).
Also, depending upon what model of so called "tribulation" (false theology, not speaking of the Biblical; Daniel 12:1), the "church" isn't even supposed to be there for that according to some persons (who are in error), and why then would John be shown Jesus in the midst of the churches, when they are supposed to be gone before what they call "tribulation" (which they mistake for God's wrath, and the two are not the same at all in scripture) occurs?
The message of Jesus is specifically to the 7 churches, and no one else:
Revelation 1:11 - "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."
Jesus is even speaking directly to John, a church member (Revelation 1:12), which is one of "his (Jesus') servants" (Revelation 1:1).
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
I would say you are biased sir, as I once was, maybe even you think the King James is the Bible, rather than a Version of such. It blatantly alters passages to promote Jesus as being God, and has deceived many into believing this.
It took me a long time, but I believe that the NWT is the most accurate version of the Bible, yet I still believe it is not the perfect word of God. In other words, it contains errors as well. Deliberate additions that are unnecessary. An example is found at Jn 3:16 which clearly states believe, but our translators rendered it exercise faith. While that is true, and an active faith is required for salvation, if you are capable that is, believe is actually what originally occurred there and should not have been changed.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
I understand that the WTS/JW theology disagrees with what I presented, and since you agree with their theological position, you must of necessity disagree with what I presented. Lose the WTS/JW mindset and simply go to God in prayer with a real Bible, and you cannot but agree with what I presented, and disagree with the WTS/JW position.
I didn't always hold my present position as I was born into and raised Roman Catholic. I gave up the mindset and trusted God to lead me as He said, and prayed upon my knees for truth. God answered and still answers that prayer.
I began with a Roman Catholic Bible, St. Joseph's New American Ed, and a giant family Catholic Bible.
I was biased then.
However, when I turned to God, I no longer trusted myself, but sought God in prayer upon my knees for truth in deep repentance and tears.
Care to discuss the King James Bible (KJB) and the NWT/KIT of WTS? We can do so in another thread.
The King James Bible is the inspired and preserved word of God in English and is without error in it's inspired and preserved words.
I happen to have a NWT with me, and we can discuss the differences, etc, or I can refer directly to the NWT study edition online at JW.org.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
The Bible identifies God's people Re. Jehovah does not leave anyone out in the cold so to speak. But you have to choose to go with His people sir.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Sure, explain the lack of translation error in the easily seen Ps 110:1. I kinda you thought it was the Bible rather than a version
The Bible surely does, and clearly, identify His people. I agree that JEHOVAH leaves everyone without excuse. I have chosen to go with His people. True Seventh-day Adventists are His witnesses, the remant flock. We can discuss this in another thread if you like
The "LORD" (JEHOVAH) said unto my "Lord" (Adonai)"?
What translation error?
It's quoted in Matthew 22:44; Luke 20:42; Acts 2:34.
I am asking that if you would like to speak on this subject of Bible translations to begin a new thread. I really do not want to distract from the OP topic. Feel free to start that conversation with what you asked, and my response. You can even link to it in this thread if you want so people can follow the conversation over to there.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
If you meet these scriptural qualifiers then you are there sir:
1. The one faith would worship the God Jehovah exclusively. (Matthew 4:10) Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to Him alone you must render sacred service.’” (It was written at Deut 6:13).
2. The one faith will not participate in war. Paul stated: (2 Corinthians 10:3) . . .For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to what we are in the flesh. . .
3. The one faith approaches Jehovah through Jesus, Paul said:
(1 Timothy 2:5) . . .For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus. . .Jesus said: (John 14:6) . . .Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. . .
4. Jesus said the one faith would be known by the love of its adherents:
(John 13:34, 35) . . .I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves. . .
It’s adherents would imitate Jesus,
Peter said: (1 Peter 2:21) . . .to this course you were called, because even Christ suffered for you, leaving a model for you to follow his steps closely. . .
5. The one faith will preach the good news of the Kingdom of God, as mankind’s only hope, not a worldly government, Jesus stated:
(John 18:36) . . .“My Kingdom is no part of this world. . . .
He told us to: (Matthew 6:33) 33 “Keep on, then, seeking first the Kingdom and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added to you.
Jesus stated the main reason he came to earth: (Luke 4:43) . . .“I must also declare the good news of the Kingdom of God to other cities, because for this I was sent.”
He assigned his followers to: (Matthew 28:19) . . .Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations,. . ., 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.
6. The one faith accepts the Bible as the inspired message of God, Paul said:
(2 Timothy 3:16) . . .All Scripture is inspired of God. . .
7. The one faith would appear to be formed in the last days, it’s adherents would be highly educated through instruction, and would live the teachings in their lives: Isaiah wrote: (Isaiah 2:2, 3) . . .In the final part of the days, The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established . . .And to it all the nations will stream. 3 And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.
8. The one faith would not set men on high, with religious titles, Jesus said: (Matthew 23:8-10) 8 But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers. 9 Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. 10 Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ.
9. The one faith does not allow unrepentant sinners to remain among them,
Paul stated: (1 Corinthians 5:11-13) . . .I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. . .“Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.”
10. The one faith does not practice interfaith with other “Christian” faiths. All teach the same thing, and have the same line of thought: (2 Cor 6:14) For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have?
(Phil 2:2) make my joy full by being of the same mind and having the same love, being completely united, having the one thought in mind.
(1 Corinthians 1:10) Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.
Jesus said: (John 17:20) . . .“I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word. . .in order that they may be one just as we are one.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Like you showed in parenthesis, Jehovah was there not Lord, so clearly King James chose to change YHWH to Adonai, do you think that was through ignorance, or a deliberate manipulation RE?
That is not a translation "error", that is a translation "choice" made by the KJ translators, who followed the lead of the NT Apostles and disciples, who were filled with the Holy Ghost. Look again at what I said in response to the question.
"The "LORD" (JEHOVAH) said unto my "Lord" (Adonai)"?
What translation error?
It's quoted in Matthew 22:44; Luke 20:42; Acts 2:34."
Matthew 22:44 in koine Greek reads:
Εἶπεν ὁ κύριος τῷ κυρίῳ μου· Κάθου ἐκ δεξιῶν μου ἕως ἂν θῶ τοὺς ἐχθρούς σου ὑποπόδιον τῶν ποδῶν σου
Show me where Matthew the Apostle, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, uses "IEOVAH" or the Greek equivalent of "Ιεχώβα" or even "ΙΑΩ". Show me one single NT Ms in koine Greek out of the many we have extant that Ps. 110:1 was translated as you would, rather than as done.
Luke 20:42 in the koine Greek reads:
καὶ αὐτὸς Δαβὶδ λέγει ἐν βίβλῳ ψαλμῶν Εἶπεν ὁ κύριος τῷ κυρίῳ μου· Κάθου ἐκ δεξιῶν μου
Show me where Luke the Physician and Gospel writer, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, uses "IEOVAH" or the Greek equivalent of "Ιεχώβα" or even "ΙΑΩ". Show me one single NT Ms in koine Greek out of the many we have extant that Ps. 110:1 was translated as you would, rather than as done.
Acts 2:34 in the koine Greek reads:
οὐ γὰρ Δαβὶδ ἀνέβη εἰς τοὺς οὐρανούς λέγει δὲ αὐτός Εἶπεν ὁ κύριος τῷ κυρίῳ μου Κάθου ἐκ δεξιῶν μου
Show me where Luke the Physician and Acts writer, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, uses "IEOVAH" or the Greek equivalent of "Ιεχώβα" or even "ΙΑΩ". Show me one single NT Ms in koine Greek out of the many we have extant that Ps. 110:1 was translated as you would, rather than as done.
Even the so called lxx (origens hexapla) in Psalms 109:1 (110:1) does this:
τῷ Δαυιδ ψαλμός εἶπεν ὁ κύριος τῷ κυρίῳ μου κάθου ἐκ δεξιῶν μου ἕως ἂν θῶ τοὺς ἐχθρούς σου ὑποπόδιον τῶν ποδῶν σου
You say that a proper translation needs to have JEHOVAH. Why then does the NWT in those 3 NT places not, as you say, properly translate, "kurious" to Lord, rather than to JEHOVAH? What is the difference? There is none. It is simply a translation choice.
The NWT likes to make the name JEHOVAH common. That is their choice.
The KJB likes to make the name JEHOVAH rare, so as not to make it common. That is their choice. The KJB translators did not want the name JEHOVAH so common it became non sacred. For instance, I do not go around using my earthly father's name except in specific and rare circumstances. When I speak to my earthly father, I say, "Dad", "Father", etc and keep his actual name in reserve, for respect. I am not his equal in familial authority.
Matthew was a NT Jew. They all used the name of God, rarely.
Even Luke (supposedly a Greek), followed in the same fashion as those who sought not to abuse the name by speaking or writing it commonly.
Don't misunderstand me. There are two extremes. The one extreme is found in the NWT, translating JEHOVAH everywhere, even in the NT, where not a single koine Greek Ms exists to support doing so, and making the name common. The other extreme removes the name JEHOVAH entirely from OT such as some modern 'translations' into English do. The KJB avoids both extremes.
So, why do you fault the KJB translators in the OT, and you do not fault the NWT in the NT? Why do you fault the KJB translators in the OT for translating those texts, even as the NT writers Matthew and Luke, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, did?
Last edited:
You just failed your own test, and Seventh-day Adventists succeeded in your own test:
Luk 4:16: "And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read."
Jesus pattern was to go to sacred gathering on the Seventh day to keep Sabbath with all who worshipped JEHOVAH.
I don't know what "JEHOVAH" you are worshipping by not obeying even so simple a commandment, Exodus 20:8-11. Jesus never did what you, WTS, do by trampling upon the holy day of JEHOVAH. You, WTS, have a counterfeit JEHOVAH.
Deu 32:30: "How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up?"
Deu 32:31: "For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges."
When these things are brought up, the WTS run. They try to make excuse for their disobedience to the real Creator JEHOVAH. Paul never did that, see Acts 14:15-16, citing Exodus 20:11.
Similar threads
