The Lord's Side (Remaining neutral and non partisan)

[Episkopos]

So, you do entangle yourself with the affairs of this life. You pay taxes. What a worldly thing to do. And how abut insurance? Savings account? Do you have any of that? I'm sure you don't as you are too spiritual to particiapate in such worldly affairs.

Voting? What is to vote on concerning the Kingdom? I asked do you vote in your city, state, and countries elections? Or are you one of those that just lets God decide?

So, you didn't or wouldn't serve in your countries military? I can believe that. Probably for the better.

Oh, I see. You are the one who decides who is Christian or not. Because, 'your on the Lord's side'. But then, you say you are neutral. Thus again, (Rev. 4:15-16).

Stranger

I know you won't get this...but this is a public forum. So for they who are weak in faith...

While we pay taxes to the government a follower of Christ will never pledge allegiance to it. Our fight is spiritual not carnal. We use prayers and spiritual force not carnal guns and bombs. The world will do what the world does. Let the dead bury their dead.

But see I'm speaking as an actual follower of Christ and not just a cultural believer who puts his own ideas and life before God's.

Vengeance is the Lord's. No Christian should ever indulge in a payback war that serves Mammon and not God.

You can't serve God and Mammon. So then cultural Christians serve Mammon. They claim to follow Christ on sunday...but come monday they are no different than the world and the culture around them. They look to men and human power not God. They are worldly and sinful like any other person...except they lie and say they are different. Maybe more hypocritical is all.

Beware of the great hypocrisy...and the great hatred. The hatred of they who bring the words of God and truth. The hatred of instruction and rebuke from the Lord.

 

[Stranger]

I know you won't get this...but this is a public forum. So for they who are weak in faith...

While we pay taxes to the government a follower of Christ will never pledge allegiance to it. Our fight is spiritual not carnal. We use prayers and spiritual force not carnal guns and bombs. The world will do what the world does. Let the dead bury their dead.

But see I'm speaking as an actual follower of Christ and not just a cultural believer who puts his own ideas and life before God's.

Vengeance is the Lord's. No Christian should ever indulge in a payback war that serves Mammon and not God.

You can't serve God and Mammon. So then cultural Christians serve Mammon. They claim to follow Christ on sunday...but come monday they are no different than the world and the culture around them. They look to men and human power not God. They are worldly and sinful like any other person...except they lie and say they are different. Maybe more hypocritical is all.

Beware of the great hypocrisy...and the great hatred. The hatred of they who bring the words of God and truth. The hatred of instruction and rebuke from the Lord.

I see you ignore my other questions. Do you have insurance? Savings account full of filthy mammon? Or do you live hand to mouth and if any is left over you give it to the poor?

Yes, I understand it's you and the Lord.

It's not up to the individual as to the cause of war. But keep telling yourself that and keep your conscience clean. It's a lot easier letting someone else do the dirty work. Iv'e always wondered why so many Christians are cowards. Could be a 'cultural thing' at this stage.

So, I'm a 'cultural believer'? And what culture would that be?

Oh, hypocrisy and 'hatred'? Where did that come from? I guess you would like to make 'cultural christians, whatever that is, a hate crime. Contact your local NAACP and SPLC. They are always wanting to increase their list.

Stranger

 

[Episkopos]

So, I'm a 'cultural believer'? And what culture would that be?

American culture.

Oh, hypocrisy and 'hatred'? Where did that come from? I guess you would like to make 'cultural christians, whatever that is, a hate crime. Contact your local NAACP and SPLC. They are always wanting to increase their list.

Sure they may be racist. But so are you. I don't get involved with taking sides. I'm neutral. I'm a human being with all other human beings. Every race is my race. Every country is my country.

I'm non-partisan. You should try it.

I see you ignore my other questions. Do you have insurance? Savings account full of filthy mammon? Or do you live hand to mouth and if any is left over you give it to the poor?

God provides for me and my family. We are neither rich nor poor. And we do help the poor. So what? Is that so hard to accept? Do you think it's that hard to turn your life over to God? Why all the unbelief and pessimism? Why are you trying to make me to be like you...who only has a cultural grasp of God? Turn from your carnal life and your hold on your own culture and society. God is eternal and to Him all nations are less than vanity. Are you involved in anything BUT vanity?


I hope you will allow God's Spirit to help you in this.

 

[Candidus]

A true Christian does not take sides with anything to do with this world or the flesh. We who walk with God and serve God are to remain non-partisan...neutral. We resist the baiting of the devil into a political camp. We love all people...not because of their race or skin colour. We love all men equally. So i can't take any side in this political demonstration of carnality. I must remain on the Lord's side. Carnal men want God for themselves. But He is the God of ALL flesh...yes, even the people you like to hate and blame. All men need to leave their sins behind and go over to the Lord's side. And this begins with they who say they follow Christ.,..but lie.

Being "on the Lord's side" is partisan! It is not neutral or passive. God working in and through us involves our lives in this present world. While I can agree if you are saying that we are not to be "Christian Politicians," "Christian Police Officers" as if such are called that in Scripture; I agree. Yet, God calls us to action; not passivity. When it comes to killing babies through abortion, do we just huddle in neutrality in our "safe-space Churches," or are we to be vocal about an injustice and sin!

Joh the Baptist spoke "against power" in Matthew 14. Peter spoke against the Jewish Leadership and their crime of "nailing (Jesus) to the tree" in Acts 2:23. Jesus was not crucified because He was "neutral" and told everyone what they wanted to hear.

Christians should be involved and desire just and righteous Laws. I agree that the Christian focus is introducing to world to salvation through Jesus Christ and not reformation of secular society. But we are to be "salt and light" to this world. God's Laws are beneficial to society as a whole. God is not a Divine kill-joy, His Laws make for a happier, just society. However, the lack of Christian involvement is that many laws and policies that promote sin, murder and vice are so easily adopted in society. People believe that if something is "legal," it is therefore beneficial and not sinful. Look how the world (America) has changed many Churches to accept Homosexual "marriage" and Homosexuality as "neutral" and "normal."

I have been around long enough to see a transition in the Church. When I became a Christian, almost every Church had a "Brand" or a Denomination displayed on the outside of that particular church building. People started decrying Denominations as evil, divisive, splitting the Body of Christ! That would be unbiblical and wrong! So, as time moved on, Denominational brands started dropping off the names on the Buildings. Many people "separated" from their Denominations and formed their own "Non-Denominational" Churches in the name of not being "divisive"! How was further division of thousands of little independent Churches accomplishing what they said that they were against?

In dealing with many that proudly claimed to be Denominational, and those that strutted themselves as "Non-denominational," I have observed one thing:

The Non-Denominationalist wants to sell themselves and being "Biblical," open to the Holy Spirit, non-confrontational, implying that they are Non-Doctrinal. They have done well selling this image, yet, the most theologically burdened, most rigid and biased people I have dealt with, are the so-called "Non-Denominationalists"! Yes, I run into hard-core theologically committed people from Denominations, but the majority of them are more open and accepting of differences than those I find that come the "Mysterious Holy Ghost of Our Lady of the Mind; Non-Denominational Church."

My point is, many in the Name of Christ have declared non-partisanship and neutrality, and they cannot pull it off. If what you mean is that the Church should not make a political takeover of the Government, or try to make an existing Government a Theocracy; I agree. We are not called to do that.

I disagree if you are saying that we as Christians have no responsibility to elect leaders that do no not oppose Christianity and our values. We are not called to stand by and do nothing to allow unbelievers to place Satan on the Throne.

 

[Episkopos]

Being "on the Lord's side" is partisan! It is not neutral or passive. God working in and through us involves our lives in this present world. While I can agree if you are saying that we are not to be "Christian Politicians," "Christian Police Officers" as if such are called that in Scripture; I agree. Yet, God calls us to action; not passivity. When it comes to killing babies through abortion, do we just huddle in neutrality in our "safe-space Churches," or are we to be vocal about an injustice and sin!

Joh the Baptist spoke "against power" in Matthew 14. Peter spoke against the Jewish Leadership and their crime of "nailing (Jesus) to the tree" in Acts 2:23. Jesus was not crucified because He was "neutral" and told everyone what they wanted to hear.

Christians should be involved and desire just and righteous Laws. I agree that the Christian focus is introducing to world to salvation through Jesus Christ and not reformation of secular society. But we are to be "salt and light" to this world. God's Laws are beneficial to society as a whole. God is not a Divine kill-joy, His Laws make for a happier, just society. However, the lack of Christian involvement is that many laws and policies that promote sin, murder and vice are so easily adopted in society. People believe that if something is "legal," it is therefore beneficial and not sinful. Look how the world (America) has changed many Churches to accept Homosexual "marriage" and Homosexuality as "neutral" and "normal."

I have been around long enough to see a transition in the Church. When I became a Christian, almost every Church had a "Brand" or a Denomination displayed on the outside of that particular church building. People started decrying Denominations and evil, divisive, splitting the Body of Christ! That would be unbiblical and wrong! So, as time moved on, Denominational brands started dropping off the names on the Buildings. Many people "separated" from their Denominations in the name of not being "divisive"! How was further division of thousands of little independent Churches accomplishing what they said that they were against?

In dealing with many that proudly claimed to be Denominational, and those that strutted themselves as "Non-denominational," I have observed one thing:

The Non-Denominationalist wants to sell themselves and being "Biblical," open to the Holy Spirit, non-confrontational, implying that they are Non-Doctrinal. They have done well selling this image, yet, the most theologically burdened, most rigid and biased people I have dealt with, are the so-called "Non-Denominationalists"! Yes, I run into hard-core theologically committed people from Denominations, but the majority of them are more open and accepting of differences than those I find that come the "Mysterious Holy Ghost of Our Lady of the Mind; Non-Denominational Church."

My point is, many in the Name of Christ have declared non-partisanship and neutrality, and they cannot pull it off. If what you mean is that the Church should not make a political takeover of the Government, or try to make an existing Government a Theocracy; I agree. We are not called to do that.

I disagree if you are saying that we as Christians have no responsibility to elect leaders that do no not oppose Christianity and our values. We are not called to stand by and do nothing to allow unbelievers to place Satan on the Throne.

I fear you are also speaking here as a cultural Christian. You are missing the larger point to make a smaller one. We ARE to be neutral UNTIL we are prompted by the Holy Spirit to act. Jesus said..I ONLY do what I see My Father doing.

To be led by the Holy Spirit is the minimum standard of the saint. If you are led by what YOU think is right...then you are yet carnal.

A car that always pulls to one side is not aligned properly...it is dangerous. A car with good direction and steering comes to the neutral straight ahead position as a default.

Most people have a bent steering...always pulling in one political way or the other. But a balanced person is capable of steering around every obstacle.

So your argument doesn't go very deep. It is on the level of a human righteousness. Not that that is always bad. But in Christ we are called to go much deeper. To be led by the Spirit....not our own sense of justice and right. Can you say...the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Being "on the Lord's side" is partisan!

Either you are not understanding what epi is saying, or you will have to explain if God is on the side of the Republicans or on the side of the Democrats.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Otherwise, why didnt Jesus direct them to speak up against Roman abuse of people. Why didnt Jesus tell them to hold protests and throw bottles at roman soldiers?

Which Jesus did the crowd call to be released?

 

[Episkopos]

Otherwise, why didnt Jesus direct them to speak up against Roman abuse of people. Why didnt Jesus tell them to hold protests and throw bottles at roman soldiers?

Which Jesus did the crowd call to be released?

Jesus actually offended people by saying they should go FARTHER than what they are asked to when being exploited by the Romans to carry their equipment for them the one requisite mile. To walk an extra mile. Man, that is SO unlike Western culture. It is impossible for any cultural Christian to do that.

So there is NO mistaking who are really following Christ...or not. Very very rare these days to find a Christian is who NOT culturally and superficially so.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

We are a mix. But hopefully, we wont remain so.

 

[Stranger]

American culture.


Sure they may be racist. But so are you. I don't get involved with taking sides. I'm neutral. I'm a human being with all other human beings. Every race is my race. Every country is my country.

I'm non-partisan. You should try it.



God provides for me and my family. We are neither rich nor poor. And we do help the poor. So what? Is that so hard to accept? Do you think it's that hard to turn your life over to God? Why all the unbelief and pessimism? Why are you trying to make me to be like you...who only has a cultural grasp of God? Turn from your carnal life and your hold on your own culture and society. God is eternal and to Him all nations are less than vanity. Are you involved in anything BUT vanity?


I hope you will allow God's Spirit to help you in this.

American culture? American culture today is secularist and atheist. I am neither. So, again, how am I a 'cultural Christian'?

I wasn't declaring them racist, but of course they are. You want to brand your 'cultural christian' as guilty of hatred. Thus you need to contact the NAACP and SPLC. They are always wanting to add more to their list.

No thanks. In my book non-partisan is a cowards way out. That may sound harsh, but I think it is so.

You still didn't answer my question. And you and I both know why. You have insurance. You have a savings account. Yet you malign others for being caught up in the affairs of this world. It goes back to this. You malign others for being involved in what 'you' don't think they should be involved in. If 'you' are involved in it, then it is what the Lord wants. Because you are on the Lord's side.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Either you are not understanding what epi is saying, or you will have to explain if God is on the side of the Republicans or on the side of the Democrats.

Well, if God places who He wants in power, then He was on the side of the Republicans in the last election. Correct?

Otherwise, why didnt Jesus direct them to speak up against Roman abuse of people. Why didnt Jesus tell them to hold protests and throw bottles at roman soldiers?

Which Jesus did the crowd call to be released?

Had Jesus been received by Israel as their Messiah, He would have brought in the Kingdom through violence. And would his people have fought with Him. Of course. What did Israel do when entering the promised land? God gave them the land, but then they had wars to fight.

Yet none of this plays a role in deciding to not vote and do what you can to insure a right political leader is elected. You let God have His way, but He never expects us to just stand there. And, why can't that political leader be just as much part of the spiritual warfare as a praying Christian. He can be and is.

Stranger

 

[Timtofly]

Do you know what the law of non-contradiction is? You have presented it here: 'There is nothing to use to calculate.... The Second Coming is scheduled for April of 2023'.

I answered your question about a return. You answered with the way you believe.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Well, if God places who He wants in power, then He was on the side of the Republicans in the last election. Correct?

Uh...no...not necessarily. There are examples of hideous leaders in the bible. There are times when God told His people not to try to escape but to go into bondage. Really! And David refused to kill Saul, even when he had chances to. And this was a man who tried to kill David many times! Why didnt David try to kill Saul?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You let God have His way, but He never expects us to just stand there.

Haha! Tell that to the men at Jericho!

 

[Episkopos]

American culture? American culture today is secularist and atheist. I am neither. So, again, how am I a 'cultural Christian'?

I wasn't declaring them racist, but of course they are. You want to brand your 'cultural christian' as guilty of hatred. Thus you need to contact the NAACP and SPLC. They are always wanting to add more to their list.

No thanks. In my book non-partisan is a cowards way out. That may sound harsh, but I think it is so.

You still didn't answer my question. And you and I both know why. You have insurance. You have a savings account. Yet you malign others for being caught up in the affairs of this world. It goes back to this. You malign others for being involved in what 'you' don't think they should be involved in. If 'you' are involved in it, then it is what the Lord wants. Because you are on the Lord's side.

Stranger

Nothing is evil of itself. It's not the having of something that is evil...it is the love of it. Money itself is not evil. But the love of money is the root of much evil. Sin comes from within a person.

So you are making no distinction between using something...for God...or lusting after something for it's own sake.

Or do you think we are all the same in our affections so that God is going to have to arbitrarily choose who is good and who is bad? (because none of us can get it right)

Of course you are probably a Calvinist and can't discern what people are to do.

We will all be judged by His standard. Some will do well...and some will do poorly. The difference is not the environment...as 2 are walking but only one is taken..;but by the ATTITUDE with which we do things and use things.

 

[Candidus]

Most people have a bent steering...always pulling in one political way or the other. But a balanced person is capable of steering around every obstacle.

This assumes that being far left or far right is wrong. From experience as a little child, being in the middle of the road is only good for one thing; getting run over!

The whole "Cultural Christian" argument is nonsense. We are in the world, not of this world. If our convictions are not a call to action, they are useless convictions. It is like saying that since this world does not matter, you should never allow your child to be a Medical Doctor or excel in anything that touches this world. God does not "lead" the Janitor to scrub a toilet, but says whatever we do, do it for the glory of God.

Truth is most times in the middle, yet sometimes truth is at the extremes. We cannot always "split the difference" and come out with "truth."

If living your life as a Christian, following your convictions and truth as you see it makes one a "Cultural Christian," then I would wear the moniker with pride! I would pity those that are happy with a dead faith.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Habbakuk 2 comes to mind. Pretty sure that's where the verse about wealth being deceitful is. I have taken to thinking about it sort of...2 different ways. On the one hand, it seems to eerily describe us wealthy and well armed nations.

But also, when I meditate on wealth being deceitful, I also dont always think lots of money, because Israel had an episode of wealth being deceitful in their attempt to stockpile food, the manna.

This was in addition to strangers and epis conversation.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This assumes that being far left or far right is wrong. From experience as a little child, being in the middle of the road is only good for one thing; getting run over!

The whole "Cultural Christian" argument is nonsense. We are in the world, not of this world. If our convictions are not a call to action, they are useless convictions. It is like saying that since this world does not matter, you should never allow your child to be a Medical Doctor or excel in anything that touches this world. God does not "lead" the Janitor to scrub a toilet, but says whatever we do, do it for the glory of God.

Truth is most times in the middle, yet sometimes truth is at the extremes. We cannot always "split the difference" and come out with "truth."

If living your life as a Christian, following your convictions and truth as you see it makes one a "Cultural Christian," then I would wear the moniker with pride! I would pity those that are happy with a dead faith.

Can you give me an example of when it is good to be political and far left and when it is good to be political and far right?

 

[Candidus]

Either you are not understanding what epi is saying, or you will have to explain if God is on the side of the Republicans or on the side of the Democrats.

God is not on the side of any political Party, yet we do know that if you are not with Christ, you are against Him!

The Democrats were literally booing God at the 2012 Convention during the invocation. They support sexual perversion, racism, theft from the rich (and not so rich), Illegal Aliens, and Infanticide, they want to change the Constitution, suppress freedom of speech and what can be said in a Church. This is their Platform!

The Republicans have never booed God, oppose sexual perversion, infanticide, racism, support Law and Order, and the Constitution which provides individual Rights as those given by God. This is their Platform!

While neither is ordained of God to represent what He says, yet it is clear which one is more led by the Devil. God sets up no human Government to establish a Theocracy. Can one be a Christian and vote to defy God? Can one be a Christian and refuse to participate in preventing evil from happening, if they have a vote or say in the matter?? Perhaps, but if they don't they do so out of ignorance and a flawed sense of principle. What good are they, like salt that has lost its savor.

 

[Episkopos]

Can you give me an example of when it is good to be political and far left and when it is good to be political and far right?

Far right: Nazism. Extreme tribalism: hatred for enemies

Far left: Communism. Extreme tribalism: hatred for enemies.