The Mark of the Beast - imagery, explanation, identification - For those who have eyes that see

[Oseas]

I agree with you, JohnPaul. And regarding the cross?


1 Cor 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
1 Cor 1:18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

and

Galatians 6:14 But far be it from me to glory except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

What the Holy Spirit was speaking through Paul Apostle was/is about the Person of JESUS exclusively. Paul was not speaking of the cross looking and focusing on the wooden cross that the Devil prepared to crucify JESUS, such as you interpret by the letter of Scripture you have quoted in your post, no, absolutely no. Paul was focused on the person of JESUS on the cross exclusively: Galatians 3:v.13 : Christ hath redeemed us from the CURSE of the law (by the cross) , being made a CURSE for us: for it is written, CURSED is every one that hangeth on a tree:

JESUS was hunged on the cross "That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." - Gal.3:v.14

By your devilish interpretation you are highlighting the worshiping of the wooden cross of the Devil more than the own person of the Lord JESUS. It's your idolatry.

Matthew 16:v.13 to 16 and 20 to 23

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living GOD.
20 Then JESUS charged his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto His disciples, how that He must go unto Jerusalem, and SUFFER many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be KILLED-be crucified- , and be raised again the third day.
22 Then Peter took Him, and began to rebuke JESUS, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23 But JESUS turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: You are an obstacle in my path, because your thinking is from a human perspective, not from God’s perspective!

 

[Oseas]

I am woke and am ready for the coming war and I'll be on the side of the one who came as the lamb and returns as a lion.

Get ready because very soon will manifest himself a "messiah" like a lamb with two horns, Who will oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God will sit in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders. By your belief probably you will believe in him and in his signs and lying wonders.

No one will enter the Kingdom of God with an idolatrous baggage as such that you are carring on you.

 

[JohnPaul]

Get ready because very soon will manifest himself a "messiah" like a lamb with two horns, Who will oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God will sit in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders. By your belief probably you will believe in him and in his signs and lying wonders.

No one will enter the Kingdom of God with an idolatrous baggage as such that you are carring on you.

Excuse me? What Idolatrous baggage am I carrying? And no I won't be fooled by the Anti Christ, I believe in Jesus enough that he will guide me.
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder.

 

[JohnPaul]

What the Holy Spirit was speaking through Paul Apostle was/is about the Person of JESUS exclusively. Paul was not speaking of the cross looking and focusing on the wooden cross that the Devil prepared to crucify JESUS, such as you interpret by the letter of Scripture you have quoted in your post, no, absolutely no. Paul was focused on the person of JESUS on the cross exclusively: Galatians 3:v.13 : Christ hath redeemed us from the CURSE of the law (by the cross) , being made a CURSE for us: for it is written, CURSED is every one that hangeth on a tree:

JESUS was hunged on the cross "That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." - Gal.3:v.14

By your devilish interpretation you are highlighting the worshiping of the wooden cross of the Devil more than the own person of the Lord JESUS. It's your idolatry.

Matthew 16:v.13 to 16 and 20 to 23

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living GOD.
20 Then JESUS charged his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto His disciples, how that He must go unto Jerusalem, and SUFFER many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be KILLED-be crucified- , and be raised again the third day.
22 Then Peter took Him, and began to rebuke JESUS, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23 But JESUS turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: You are an obstacle in my path, because your thinking is from a human perspective, not from God’s perspective!

You definitely have a chip on your shoulder, Jesus carried the Cross he was to be crucified upon, Satan had no say in the matter, it's something that had to happen in order for all of us to be saved and our sins washed away with the blood of or Lord Savior Jesus Christ.

Perhaps Satan has you fooled.

 

[Davy]

Barcode is not what the mark of the beast of Revelation 13 is about.

The OP's explanation offered is actually based on the old Jewish mysticism using numbers.

The 666 simply means that the coming Antichrist/pseudo-Christ comes on the 6th Seal, 6th Trumpet, and 6th Vial (666). Lord Jesus returns on the 7th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial (777).

The mystery with this is simply that the seven Seals, Trumpets, and Vials happen in parallel, and are only about the 7 Signs of the End Lord Jesus gave His Church in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13.

 

[Timtofly]

Barcode is not what the mark of the beast of Revelation 13 is about.

The OP's explanation offered is actually based on the old Jewish mysticism using numbers.

The 666 simply means that the coming Antichrist/pseudo-Christ comes on the 6th Seal, 6th Trumpet, and 6th Vial (666). Lord Jesus returns on the 7th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial (777).

The mystery with this is simply that the seven Seals, Trumpets, and Vials happen in parallel, and are only about the 7 Signs of the End Lord Jesus gave His Church in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13.

That 666, 777 numerology is not even Biblical. You all forget the Thunders. They will happen. You need to start using 1111, 2222, 3333, 4444, 5555, 6666, 7777, to at least line up with God's Word. Although they are not parallel anyways. The 7 Thunders happen between the 6th and 7th Trumpet. The vials only happen after the end of the 42 months, for 3.5 days, while the 2 witnesses' bodies are laying on the streets in Jerusalem. The Seals have to be opened, all 7 of them, before the GT can even start with the first Trumpet.

If any do not like dispensationalism, claiming the events line up with an all co-ordinated numbering system is even worse. The book of Revelation is not a bowl of mashed potatoes. Revelation contains 4 different events, and each one gets more drastic than the event prior. The first event deals with the church. The second event deals with the house of Jacob. The third event deals with the nations of earth left after the church and Israel is harvested. The 4th and last event is on Satan and only his followers after those 42 months of Satan's rule, comes to an end. During those 42 months, the only plan of salvation is having one's head chopped off. This plan will not work during the Seals, during the Trumpets, nor during the Thunders. Having one's head chopped off will only work during those 42 months. By the time the vials start, even the two witnesses will be dead. Only those who worship Satan and have the mark will be alive on earth at Armageddon to face Christ on a white horse. The rest of humanity will have died by the end of the 7th Thunder. So saying the first of each numbered event happens in parallel makes as much sense as mashed potatoes as the only event of the Second Coming. I like mashed potatoes, but the final harvest is not the whole world sitting around one big happy table eating mashed potatoes. Soon people will be harvested in the billions, and the Second Coming will get things started.

 

[Oseas]

Excuse me? What Idolatrous baggage am I carrying? And no I won't be fooled by the Anti Christ, I believe in Jesus enough that he will guide me.
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder.

If you don't have understanding to discern what idolatry is, how could you be free from your idolatrous belief and the Devil's snare? With this idolatrous baggage it is impossible to inherit the kingdom of God that will be established in the days to come. Think about it.

 

[michaelvpardo]

So you don't want to help by answering the question I asked you? The last 2 paragraphs of post #23

People that have formulated a doctrine usually aren't interested in the possibility of being in error, but I've arrived at a similar conclusion to your own.
Jesus said that all sins may be forgiven except the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and since it is the Holy Spirit's job (in part) to convince us of the truth as the Witness of Christ within us, then the mark of the beast must incorporate a denial of Christ and the Witness of His person. In these terms a secular denial in the form of atheism or a religious denial as in the cults and world religions that reject the gospel are all under condemnation. However, as the return of Christ draws near and it becomes increasingly difficult to deny the sovereignty of God over creation, I would expect the fear of death and destruction to promote superstition to a greater degree than faith.

While it might be considered fringe science, there is definitely a movement within the scientific community to attribute physical phenomena to a manifestation of mental (psychic) power, and elevate man to the status of gods and the epitome of evolutionary advancement.

Personally, I've always seen the argument over free will and the desire for self determination as the driving force behind all rebellion. From my perspective it's no surprise that rebellion would have begun in the heart of one of the angelic host, those beings created specifically to do God's will and not given the option of personal choice. However, the conditions upon the Earth during the "beginning of sorrows" speak to a kind of desperation in which people will surrender reason and faith to the necessity of survival, and worship those who seem able to preserve their lives.
In the last 13 years I've heard two Presidents referred to as messiahs or saviors in a nation that still predominantly considers itself Christian. I couldn't even imagine such blasphemy coming out of the mouths of television anchors while I was growing into manhood, but here we are.

 

[Oseas]

You definitely have a chip on your shoulder, Jesus carried the Cross he was to be crucified upon, Satan had no say in the matter, it's something that had to happen in order for all of us to be saved and our sins washed away with the blood of or Lord Savior Jesus Christ.
Perhaps Satan has you fooled.

The crosses you have, objects or pictures/figures as your icon, they are from the Devil, they belong to him. Actually, Satan has placed the cross made by demons on you, so you remain under the CURSE of the cross. Destroy the Devil's objects and figures from your house.

Be free from this sorcery by which your guide has dominion over your soul to make you a child of hell. By the way, one of the 7 heads of the Beast of sea-the Papacy-, the main partner of Satan to spread crosses and all kind of idolatries, yeah, one of his 7 heads will be wounded mortally from now on-Revelation 13:v.3.

If you don't have understanding to discern what idolatry is, how could you be free from your idolatrous belief and from the Devil's snare? With this idolatrous baggage it is impossible to enter in the kingdom of God that will be established in the days to come. Think about it.

 

[Davy]

That 666, 777 numerology is not even Biblical. You all forget the Thunders. They will happen. You need to start using 1111, 2222, 3333, 4444, 5555, 6666, 7777, to at least line up with God's Word. Although they are not parallel anyways. The 7 Thunders happen between the 6th and 7th Trumpet. The vials only happen after the end of the 42 months, for 3.5 days, while the 2 witnesses' bodies are laying on the streets in Jerusalem. The Seals have to be opened, all 7 of them, before the GT can even start with the first Trumpet.

If any do not like dispensationalism, claiming the events line up with an all co-ordinated numbering system is even worse. The book of Revelation is not a bowl of mashed potatoes. Revelation contains 4 different events, and each one gets more drastic than the event prior. The first event deals with the church. The second event deals with the house of Jacob. The third event deals with the nations of earth left after the church and Israel is harvested. The 4th and last event is on Satan and only his followers after those 42 months of Satan's rule, comes to an end. During those 42 months, the only plan of salvation is having one's head chopped off. This plan will not work during the Seals, during the Trumpets, nor during the Thunders. Having one's head chopped off will only work during those 42 months. By the time the vials start, even the two witnesses will be dead. Only those who worship Satan and have the mark will be alive on earth at Armageddon to face Christ on a white horse. The rest of humanity will have died by the end of the 7th Thunder. So saying the first of each numbered event happens in parallel makes as much sense as mashed potatoes as the only event of the Second Coming. I like mashed potatoes, but the final harvest is not the whole world sitting around one big happy table eating mashed potatoes. Soon people will be harvested in the billions, and the Second Coming will get things started.

The 666 is simple ordinals based on the 6th Seal, 6th Trumpet, and 6th Vial. That is when the false Messiah comes. Lord Jesus comes on the very last SIGN, the 7th final Sign, which is about the 7th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial. That isn't numerology, it's a simple recognition of the Signs Jesus gave His Church per His Word. In His Olivet discourse He gave only 7 Signs of the end, the last one is about His coming. The Seals, Trumpets, and Vials are only expansions on those same 7 Signs of the end.

 

[JohnPaul]

If you don't have understanding to discern what idolatry is, how could you be free from your idolatrous belief and the Devil's snare? With this idolatrous baggage it is impossible to inherit the kingdom of God that will be established in the days to come. Think about it.

I have no idolatrous belief or baggage, I believe I will be saved and inherit God's kingdom when the time comes.

Why do you say these things to me, have you picked me out? Why because I was baptized Catholic, you think I adhere to praying to effigies and such? Or because I believe the Cross is the symbol of Christ? I am sure am am not the only one thinks this way.

 

[Timtofly]

The 666 is simple ordinals based on the 6th Seal, 6th Trumpet, and 6th Vial. That is when the false Messiah comes. Lord Jesus comes on the very last SIGN, the 7th final Sign, which is about the 7th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial. That isn't numerology, it's a simple recognition of the Signs Jesus gave His Church per His Word. In His Olivet discourse He gave only 7 Signs of the end, the last one is about His coming. The Seals, Trumpets, and Vials are only expansions on those same 7 Signs of the end.

You are still leaving out the 7 Thunders, and basing your numerology without knowing all the facts. It is like driving a car down the road with a body, a motor, and rims, but no rubber tires.

 

[JohnPaul]

If you don't have understanding to discern what idolatry is, how could you be free from your idolatrous belief and the Devil's snare? With this idolatrous baggage it is impossible to inherit the kingdom of God that will be established in the days to come. Think about it.

You keep going on about idolatrous baggage, why don't you just come out and tell me in plain English what Idolatrous baggage I carry instead of keeping repeating your same words and not tell me so that I know what Idol baggage I carry.

 

[JohnPaul]

The crosses you have, objects or pictures/figures as your icon, they are from the Devil, they belong to him. Actually, Satan has placed the cross made by demons on you, so you remain under the CURSE of the cross. Destroy the Devil's objects and figures from your house.

Be free from this sorcery by which your guide has dominion over your soul to make you a child of hell. By the way, one of the 7 heads of the Beast of sea-the Papacy-, the main partner of Satan to spread crosses and all kind of idolatries, yeah, one of his 7 heads will be wounded mortally from now on-Revelation 13:v.3.

If you don't have understanding to discern what idolatry is, how could you be free from your idolatrous belief and from the Devil's snare? With this idolatrous baggage it is impossible to enter in the kingdom of God that will be established in the days to come. Think about it.

What Cross do you speak of, my avatar? Please Satan had no power over Jesus and made no Cross, Jesus died on the Cross to wipe out humanities sin. Stop with your gibberish and following me around.

 

[Davy]

You are still leaving out the 7 Thunders, and basing your numerology without knowing all the facts. It is like driving a car down the road with a body, a motor, and rims, but no rubber tires.

The idea of the 7 thunders in Revelation 10 is simple. Which comes first, lightning or thunder? Lighting does. So when we hear thunder, the lightning has already happened. God is using that as a allegory in that Revelation 10 chapter which is about what? It's about the 'mystery of God' per the prophets being finished on the 7th trumpet.

Rev 10:3-4
3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, "Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not."

5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by Him That liveth for ever and ever, Who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He hath declared to His servants the prophets.
KJV

 

[Davy]

You are still leaving out the 7 Thunders, and basing your numerology without knowing all the facts. It is like driving a car down the road with a body, a motor, and rims, but no rubber tires.

That's actually a vain statement on your part with absolutely no evidence of me doing that. I don't use numerology and YOU WELL KNOW IT.

May Christ Jesus rebuke you, for you are not honest, but make up lies.

 

[Timtofly]

The idea of the 7 thunders in Revelation 10 is simple. Which comes first, lightning or thunder? Lighting does. So when we hear thunder, the lightning has already happened. God is using that as a allegory in that Revelation 10 chapter which is about what? It's about the 'mystery of God' per the prophets being finished on the 7th trumpet.

Rev 10:3-4
3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, "Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not."

5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by Him That liveth for ever and ever, Who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He hath declared to His servants the prophets.
KJV

Nothing in Revelation happened as a vision. The opening of the Seals is just as literal as the sounding of the Trumpets. The Thunders were also 7 literal events. If you fail to see this point about Revelation, you have failed to understand what John was a witness to. You cannot then just go and make up your own symbolic reasoning to explain John's literary symbolic terms.

These were literal actual events that are described using symbolic terms. John was about to write down the events of the Thunders the same way he wrote down about the Seals and Trumpets. He was then told not to place those verses into Revelation. So attempting to symbolically explain away the future is just making things up from human reasoning and faulty understanding.

Making up such symbolic number ratios like 444 and 555, is just as wrong as claiming human ideology like recapitulation. It is mashed potatoes compared to rightly dividing the Word of God.

 

[Timtofly]

That's actually a vain statement on your part with absolutely no evidence of me doing that. I don't use numerology and YOU WELL KNOW IT.

May Christ Jesus rebuke you, for you are not honest, but make up lies.

Making up a group of numbers is numerology. Not all numerology is about the occult. It is just the use of numbers to give a meaning to something. How can you equate all the same numbers without using a number?

Besides like not having the rubber tires, your car cannot move smoothly. The numbers in Revelation do not even match up to the same events. What do you call something that is forced onto a numbering system that just does not work?

All the 6's are the following:

Seals: Second Coming.
Trumpets: Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
Vials: Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Thunders: ?

How can taking the word Euphrates found in two events that are separate from each other equate to Satan? Then to claim the Second Coming is about Satan?

777:

Seals: Silence in heaven for about half an hour.
Trumpet: kingdoms of earth become the kingdoms of Christ.
Vials: And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Thunders: ?

The 7th Trumpet covers way more events than a single blast would cover. The 7th Trumpet is still sounding during all 7 vials being poured out, because it cannot stop sounding until all is accomplished. The result of the 7th Seal was only silence until the time for the 6 angels to start sounding.

I was not falsely accusing you of anything. Whatever you want to call using such a numbering system is still mashing things together. It is totally avoiding the specific details and making stuff up that is just not true.

Satan is cast out of heaven during the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. Jesus Christ comes to earth at the 6th Seal.

 

[Davy]

Nothing in Revelation happened as a vision.

That's strange, since most of Christ's Revelation was revealed to Apostle John by 'vision'. That doesn't make those prophecies any less likely to happen, but there still are many symbols being used in it that are not meant literally. The locusts of Rev.9 for example. That is NOT about literal locusts and scorpions attacking men. The LORD used that as an allegory to point to how a certain people operate in the last days; it's tied to the prophecies in the Book of Joel about the locusts. Have you read Joel?

The opening of the Seals is just as literal as the sounding of the Trumpets. The Thunders were also 7 literal events. If you fail to see this point about Revelation, you have failed to understand what John was a witness to. You cannot then just go and make up your own symbolic reasoning to explain John's literary symbolic terms.

These were literal actual events that are described using symbolic terms. John was about to write down the events of the Thunders the same way he wrote down about the Seals and Trumpets. He was then told not to place those verses into Revelation. So attempting to symbolically explain away the future is just making things up from human reasoning and faulty understanding.

Making up such symbolic number ratios like 444 and 555, is just as wrong as claiming human ideology like recapitulation. It is mashed potatoes compared to rightly dividing the Word of God.

In 4 places in Revelation there are lightnings and thunders emitting from God's Throne. But ONLY in Revelation 10 are "seven thunders" mentioned, so you MUST stick to Revelation 10 since you first mentioned the 7 thunders. You can't just go wishy-washy with the idea of the 7 thunders and apply it to everything in Revelation.

 

[Timtofly]

That's strange, since most of Christ's Revelation was revealed to Apostle John by 'vision'. That doesn't make those prophecies any less likely to happen, but there still are many symbols being used in it that are not meant literally. The locusts of Rev.9 for example. That is NOT about literal locusts and scorpions attacking men. The LORD used that as an allegory to point to how a certain people operate in the last days; it's tied to the prophecies in the Book of Joel about the locusts. Have you read Joel?



In 4 places in Revelation there are lightnings and thunders emitting from God's Throne. But ONLY in Revelation 10 are "seven thunders" mentioned, so you MUST stick to Revelation 10 since you first mentioned the 7 thunders. You can't just go wishy-washy with the idea of the 7 thunders and apply it to everything in Revelation.

Where is the word vision in this verse?

"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

Or this verse:

"I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,"