The Masculine Jesus

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Behold

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Hello @Behold,


I have not heard of a false creed such as this, but you obviously have, which is why you are reacting to this post, but maybe @Amazing@grace has no knowledge of this either.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Have you ever heard of the "cult of the Virgin",.
This title was created by the early church fathers, in about 4-5AD, in Ephesus.
Here is the result.
This.
Take a good look, and see if you can understand what is wrong with that picture, and why.
-
mary pope.jpg
 

VictoryinJesus

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Hello @Behold,

In your zeal I believe you are inadvertently overlooking who Mary was, and the line of descent that made her the necessary Mother of the Lord Jesus Christ. Through her, and through Joseph (by law), the Lord Jesus Christ became both heir to the land, as Son of Abraham, and heir to the throne as Son of David. So she was no 'common Jewish girl', and Joseph not just any man. Both were ideally suited for the task of being the parents of God's only begotten Son.

I believe that @Amazed@grace, is intending to show her to be the woman through whom the promised seed should come, and through whom that prophecy of Genesis 3:15 would be fulfilled.

I have not heard of a false creed such as this, but you obviously have, which is why you are reacting to this post, but maybe @Amazing@grace has no knowledge of this either.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

personally Mary (blessed) who stood without ...those same verses where He said “who is My mother, who is My brethren? Those who do the Will of The Father.” Only an opinion but He (the Son) went without to bear the reproach of those without ...that is where His mother and brethren were waiting. Again an opinion but “blessed are you of God” said to Mary ...very likely she was (is)honored of the Son, Highly exalted, highly favored as a Son toward His Mother and is whom we call New Jerusalem the Mother of the Living and not the Dead...because Her Son Lives (lifted up)and is not dead. Revived of the Spirit of God, the Father. Point is, thou she mourned for a season, does she not rejoice for His joy made full?
 

charity

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Have you ever heard of the "cult of the Virgin",.
This title was created by the early church fathers, in about 4-5AD, in Ephesus.
Here is the result.
This.
Take a good look, and see if you can understand what is wrong with that picture, and why.
Hello @Behold

No, I have not heard of 'the cult of the virgin'. I find images like this hard to even look at: but is it because Mary is crowned and appears to be enthroned?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

charity

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personally Mary (blessed) who stood without ...those same verses where He said “who is My mother, who is My brethren? Those who do the Will of The Father.” Only an opinion but He (the Son) went without to bear the reproach of those without ...that is where His mother and brethren were waiting. Again an opinion but “blessed are you of God” said to Mary ...very likely she was (is)honored of the Son, Highly exalted, highly favored as a Son toward His Mother and is whom we call New Jerusalem the Mother of the Living and not the Dead...because Her Son Lives (lifted up)and is not dead. Revived of the Spirit of God, the Father. Point is, thou she mourned for a season, does she not rejoice for His joy made full?
Hello @VictoryinJesus,

I just love the fact that Mary was called 'highly favoured' (or much graced) because God had chosen her to bare His only begotten Son: and that the same word so translated in regard to her, is used regarding the members of the Church which is Christ's Body, in the phrase, 'Accepted in the Beloved' in Ephesians chapter one. We are indeed so 'highly favoured', so 'much graced' in Christ Jesus our Lord, being accepted by God the Father in His Beloved Son.

Forgive me, for I can't respond to your other words, VictoryinJesus, for I don't understand.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Amazed@grace

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Hello @Behold,

In your zeal I believe you are inadvertently overlooking who Mary was, and the line of descent that made her the necessary Mother of the Lord Jesus Christ. Through her, and through Joseph (by law), the Lord Jesus Christ became both heir to the land, as Son of Abraham, and heir to the throne as Son of David. So she was no 'common Jewish girl', and Joseph not just any man. Both were ideally suited for the task of being the parents of God's only begotten Son.

I believe that @Amazed@grace, is intending to show her to be the woman through whom the promised seed should come, and through whom that prophecy of Genesis 3:15 would be fulfilled.

I have not heard of a false creed such as this, but you obviously have, which is why you are reacting to this post, but maybe @Amazing@grace has no knowledge of this either.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
@charity, I received the alert of your referring to me in this thread first.

I will take heed of "zeal" in Beholds reply to me as warning and avoid that post entire. There are too many here who demonstrate I'll behavior toward others is grace.
Per your observations of Genesis 3 prophecy, we would again have to address the prior verseI think.

Why would enmity between Eve and the serpents seed be an issue for the seed of the mother of all living?
 

charity

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@charity, I received the alert of your referring to me in this thread first.

I will take heed of "zeal" in Beholds reply to me as warning and avoid that post entire. There are too many here who demonstrate I'll behavior toward others is grace.
Per your observations of Genesis 3 prophecy, we would again have to address the prior verse I think.

Why would enmity between Eve and the serpents seed be an issue for the seed of the mother of all living?
Hi @Amazed@grace,

Just seen your post. Have to go to get a meal ready at the moment. Will come back and respond to this a.s.a.p. :)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Hello @VictoryinJesus,

I just love the fact that Mary was called 'highly favoured' (or much graced) because God had chosen her to bare His only begotten Son: and that the same word so translated in regard to her, is used regarding the members of the Church which is Christ's Body, in the phrase, 'Accepted in the Beloved' in Ephesians chapter one. We are indeed so 'highly favoured', so 'much graced' in Christ Jesus our Lord, being accepted by God the Father in His Beloved Son.

Forgive me, for I can't respond to your other words, VictoryinJesus, for I don't understand.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

no need. I was about to delete it. But agree with you ...seeing the connection also to the members of His body. even in we have this treasure in weak vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. 2 Corinthians 4:7
 

charity

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@charity
, I received the alert of your referring to me in this thread first.

I will take heed of "zeal" in Beholds reply to me as warning and avoid that post entire. There are too many here who demonstrate I'll behavior toward others is grace.
Per your observations of Genesis 3 prophecy, we would again have to address the prior verseI think.

Why would enmity between Eve and the serpents seed be an issue for the seed of the mother of all living?
'And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed;
It shall bruise thy head,
and thou shalt bruise His heel.'

(Gen 3:15)

Hello @Amazed@grace.

The enmity isn't between Eve and the serpents seed, but between Satan's seed and and her seed. The seed of the woman being referred to specifically is the Lord Jesus Christ, who was to come into the world as the seed of a woman, but whose Father is God. It is He who would bruise Satan's head. It is against the Lord Jesus Christ that the enmity will be directed specifically, and against mankind through whom the seed would come (hence the activity of the fallen angels which necessitated the judgement of God in the days of Noah which left just eight souls alive). Then towards 'the line itself' through which the promised 'Seed' should come, via Isaac, Abraham's son by promise. The line of Christ at one point was reduced to just one small child left alive to continue the line, during the days of the kings, but God preserved his life.

Satan's seed can be seen operating during the life and ministry of Christ, who opposed, and tried to kill him on more than one occasion, whom the Lord exposed. Their final attempt succeeded, but little did they know that they were in fact bringing about their own downfall, and doing the will of the Father, for in doing so Christ triumphed over them, by overcoming the power of sin, which is death itself, and destroyed the works of the Devil.

I hope this helps.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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charity

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no need. I was about to delete it. But agree with you ...seeing the connection also to the members of His body. even in we have this treasure in weak vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. 2 Corinthians 4:7
Hello @VictoryinJesus

You must forgive me if I say that I don't understand you. For, I truly have a problem following your line of reasoning, I always have. I can't explain it, and it is certainly no reflection on you. I simply am unable to comprehend. I wish I could. Isn't it strange?!!

With love to you my friend
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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charity

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In another thread, a poster remarked how Jesus in Scripture is not always lovable, kind or meek. Our feminized society has profoundly attacked masculinity - even calling it toxic.

A pastor once gave a Sermon and said Jesus is the ultimate in masculine in that he sacrificed himself to save others. Then he corrected himself to say the God, the Father is the ultimate in masculinity for creating life. And here again, I want to contrast the ultimate manifestation of masculine - creating life - in how it is denigrated by today's man-haters. They call it merely being a 'sperm donor.'

A friend corrected his pregnant wife who said women give life. He said, 'No. Women give birth. Men give life.' So, this thread is to remind us all that God the Father, and his son and the Holy Spirit are identified as being masculine. And in particular, I want to bring to the surface the masculine side of Jesus with these 2 verses and hope you can provide others.


It will go well with that servant if he is found doing his job when his master comes ... But if that servant <does not do his job> ... his master will cut him in two and put him with the disloyal.
Luke 12:43, 45, 46 (CJB)

This is serious business we’re involved in. My mission is to send a purging fire on the earth! In fact, I can hardly wait to see the smoke rising.
Luke 12:49 (Voice)
Hello @Wrangler,

Just because a person is male, does not mean he cannot also be kind and loving: and meekness is no indication of weakness, on the contrary it shows self control. The Lord was a man, a wonderful man, a strong man, who did not shout aloud in the streets, break a bruised reed or extinguish a smoking flax, for He submitted Himself to His Heavenly Father, and only did and said what was in accord with His Father's will. He did not strive, but turned his back and walked away from strife, and from those who sought to cause Him to offend so that He could lawfully be put to death before the time of God's choosing.

Why should a man be characterised by aggressive behaviour and assertiveness, for that is not characteristic only of men, but of certain women too. Jesus said:-

'Come unto Me,
all ye that labour and are heavy laden,
and I will give you rest.
Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me;
for I am meek and lowly in heart:
and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For My yoke is easy, and My burden is light.'

(Matthew 11:28-30)

Thank you
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris
 

Wrangler

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Just because a person is male, does not mean he cannot also be kind and loving: and meekness is no indication of weakness

In the 2 x 2 matrix, this point you make is in the same quadrant as toxic masculinity. Just because <masculine> MEANS HE WILL/IS/HAS <positive traits> is the quadrant of this thread.

Again, you are attempting to turn an actual <masculine> trait into a mere potential (can). The counter balance to actual toxic masculinity cannot be mere potential. Only actual offsets actual.

It cannot be that masculine means negative or only potentially good - unless you subscribe to a hateful worldview.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Hello @VictoryinJesus

You must forgive me if I say that I don't understand you. For, I truly have a problem following your line of reasoning, I always have. I can't explain it, and it is certainly no reflection on you. I simply am unable to comprehend. I wish I could. Isn't it strange?!!

With love to you my friend
In Christ Jesus
Chris

yes it is strange. Like I’ve said before you are not the only one to say this and no forgiveness is necessary because no offense is taken. Not sure if this will help...if not then just ignore. But the only reasoning behind the post on Mary was my own questions concerning when they told Jesus Christ that His mother and brothers stood without. Mark 3:31-35 There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him. [32] And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee. [33] And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? [34] And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! [35] For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

The only reasoning was my own questions of did He really leave them without. It resolves for me in Hebrews 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

What it changed for me is Mary who voiced God had seen her low estate and yet He called her blessed of God and Highly favored and (Imo) she and his brothers standing without calling unto Him: are included in ‘with his own blood’ Hebrews 13:12
That is all. You are a friend. It is okay if you struggle to understand me. It does make me sad because I feel it is on my end, because I understand you and am often blessed by the clarity of your post.
 
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charity

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In the 2 x 2 matrix, this point you make is in the same quadrant as toxic masculinity. Just because <masculine> MEANS HE WILL/IS/HAS <positive traits> is the quadrant of this thread.

Again, you are attempting to turn an actual <masculine> trait into a mere potential (can). The counter balance to actual toxic masculinity cannot be mere potential. Only actual offsets actual.

It cannot be that masculine means negative or only potentially good - unless you subscribe to a hateful worldview
.

I don't accept your reasoning, @Wrangler
 

VictoryinJesus

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This thread is only about 1 Quadrant, Good Apples. If you want to talk about the other quadrants, feel free to start your own thread. Thanks!

You seem to want to talk about post 86 as the backbone of this thread. I’ve had a question concerning that post 86.

“This thread is only about 1 Quadrant, Good Apples. If you want to talk about the other quadrants, feel free to start your own thread. Thanks!”

Can you please explain what you meant there and clarify for me... you said something similar to me in a post where you said this is to discuss the masculinity and if I want to discuss the other ...feminine then to go start another thread. So in my mind the above became a slight as in suggestive of: the good apples being the masculinity of Jesus and the other “quadrant” the oranges the female or woman.

but then as I read on further your post I thought maybe you were saying not to compare oranges (those who use masculinity to oppress)the other quadrants to “good apples”. But then if that is the case: then why in discussing the feminist movement and the scolding and shaming of boys for being born male...stay with the same there are good apples and ‘the other quadrants’. It would help tremendously to finally get clarification on what you meant here: “This thread is only about 1 Quadrant, Good Apples. If you want to talk about the other quadrants, feel free to start your own thread. Thanks!” ...who are the Good Apples you refer to, who are ‘the other quadrants’ needing to be discussed in another thread?
 

charity

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yes it is strange. Like I’ve said before you are not the only one to say this and no forgiveness is necessary because no offense is taken. Not sure if this will help...if not then just ignore. But the only reasoning behind the post on Mary was my own questions concerning when they told Jesus Christ that His mother and brothers stood without. Mark 3:31-35 There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him. [32] And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee. [33] And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? [34] And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! [35] For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

The only reasoning was my own questions of did He really leave them without. It resolves for me in Hebrews 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

What it changed for me is Mary who voiced God had seen her low estate and yet He called her blessed of God and Highly favored and (Imo) she and his brothers standing without calling unto Him: are included in ‘with his own blood’ Hebrews 13:12
That is all. You are a friend. It is okay if you struggle to understand me. It does make me sad because I feel it is on my end, because I understand you and am often blessed by the clarity of your post.
Hello @VictoryinJesus,

Thank you for this. It is interesting that you should connect Hebrews 13:12 with the words of the Lord in Mark 3:31-35. You have done so by linking the words 'without' in both I believe. His Mother and brethren, were seeking to 'lay hold on Him', as we are told in Mark 3:21, for from their perspective He was 'beside Himself', and being pressed by the crowds on all sides, so much so that He had no time to eat or rest. I believe they sought to take Him to a place of safety where He could rest awhile and eat something away from the demands of the crowd. He could not let that happen, for unlike them He was not concerned with the things of the flesh but of the Spirit, and He had to be about His Fathers business. He had to finish the work that He had been sent by God to do. Their interference, well meaning as it was, would interfere with His Father's purpose. So He made it clear that it was those who, like Himself sought to do His Father's will, who had the prior claim upon Him.

This reminds me of the Lord's words to Peter, when he too, thinking of the Lord's welfare, according to the flesh, tried to divert Him from His purpose of going to Jerusalem, in (Mat 16:23) 'But He turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.'

* Nothing, and nobody, no matter how dear, must prevent us from doing the Lord's known will for us.

Thank you, VictoryinJesus
For your love in Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris
 
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Hidden In Him

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The enmity isn't between Eve and the serpents seed, but between Satan's seed and and her seed. The seed of the woman being referred to specifically is the Lord Jesus Christ, who was to come into the world as the seed of a woman, but whose Father is God. It is He who would bruise Satan's head. It is against the Lord Jesus Christ that the enmity will be directed specifically, and against mankind through whom the seed would come

That is correct.

Greetings, Chris! Was gone for a second, but I'm back. Hope you have a blessed afternoon!
 
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charity

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Re. replies #153 and #156

Hello again, @VictoryinJesus,

I am by nature one who likes to please, and like an old song of my past from the musical 'Oklahoma', ' ... just a girl who can't say 'No''. So, I find this word concerning Mark 3:31-35, such a quickening and chastening word today, for which I thank you.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Hidden In Him

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In another thread, a poster remarked how Jesus in Scripture is not always lovable, kind or meek. Our feminized society has profoundly attacked masculinity - even calling it toxic.

A pastor once gave a Sermon and said Jesus is the ultimate in masculine in that he sacrificed himself to save others. Then he corrected himself to say the God, the Father is the ultimate in masculinity for creating life. And here again, I want to contrast the ultimate manifestation of masculine - creating life - in how it is denigrated by today's man-haters.


The reason the dominant male role model is denigrated in society today is because the Devil wants to cast shame on the order of authority God put in place from the beginning of the world. Satan would just as soon that the church viewed the Lord Jesus Christ as merely her "equal" as well, but it is not to be found in the scriptures.
 
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Hidden In Him

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Not at all. And please don't misrepresent what I've said.
The Shakey ground is that argument that insists Jesus, who was God in flesh when here, is still of mortal substance when he returned to the father, i.e. reuniting unto his sacred holy spirit in the heaven from whence he came.

Reuniting unto his sacred holy spirit...

Amazed@grace, I am almost certain you will not answer me, but are you suggesting that Jesus was masculine and his holy spirit was feminine, and the two united together after his resurrection and ascension to Heaven?