The Mystery of Iniquity

[No Pre-TB]

which all lead to the day of the LORD (The seven Thunders).

David H., I'm going to disagree with you here. The Day of the Lord beginning is easily expressed in the 6th seal.
Examples:
Isaiah 2:10
Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty

Isaiah 2:19
And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

It begins in that Ch. at Isaiah 2:12 talking about the Day of the Lord. If you read the 2 passages above, you'd note a common theme. They shall go into the holes of the rocks and caves of the earth when God "rises to shake the earth". This is one example that shows begins the beginning of the Day of the Lord

Now look at the parallel verses:

Revelation 6:15-17
And the kings of the earth, and the great ones, and the commanders, and the rich, and the powerful, and every slave and free, hid themselves in the caves, and among the rocks of the mountains.
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Honestly, there is a misconception between the Day of the Lord and his "Orge" and "Thumos". They are not the same and its not one or the other in the entire Day of the Lord time frame.
Secondly, we are told we are children of the light and the Day of the Lord will not overtake us. We will have candles in the darkness as the 5 virgins did. We won't be without oil when it comes.

 

[David H.]

Nah, what you tried... to show are IMPLIED dates and events that do NOT MATCH the Daniel 8 Scripture I covered.

So let's be honest, there ain't... been no cleansing of a Jewish sanctuary in Jerusalem after Lord Jesus' death and resurrection! But that is exactly what those false doctrines of men try to imply.

But staying with the actual WRITTEN SCRIPTURE, reveals that cleansing of the sanctuary is part of the 2300 days prophecy! The Romans destroyed the 2nd temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D., and there has NEVER to this day been another Jewish temple built there to this day.

 

[David H.]

David H., I'm going to disagree with you here. The Day of the Lord beginning is easily expressed in the 6th seal.
Examples:
Isaiah 2:10
Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty

Isaiah 2:19
And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

It begins in that Ch. at Isaiah 2:12 talking about the Day of the Lord. If you read the 2 passages above, you'd note a common theme. They shall go into the holes of the rocks and caves of the earth when God "rises to shake the earth". This is one example that shows begins the beginning of the Day of the Lord

Now look at the parallel verses:

Revelation 6:15-17
And the kings of the earth, and the great ones, and the commanders, and the rich, and the powerful, and every slave and free, hid themselves in the caves, and among the rocks of the mountains.
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Honestly, there is a misconception between the Day of the Lord and his "Orge" and "Thumos". They are not the same and its not one or the other in the entire Day of the Lord time frame.
Secondly, we are told we are children of the light and the Day of the Lord will not overtake us. We will have candles in the darkness as the 5 virgins did. We won't be without oil when it comes.

I have no issue with what you said here. The sixth seal, as the sign of the son of man and the coming wrath of God on the Day of the Lord will flee underground to try and escape it. You can find the parallel in the sixth trumpet as well. How I word this is that the wrath of the lamb is a judgment on the church, and the wrath of God is a judgment on the world. My Point is that they happen at the same time.... there is only one second coming, not multiple visits as many end time eschatologies require.

 

[Zao is life]

I do not listen to men for my interpretation, but rather am Holy Spirit Taught.... He showed me this oversight in the kjv of Daniel 8:14, and how it led to the millerite disappointment. (Translating it as "days" instead of "mornings and evenings" Like the original Hebrew contains.) THE FACTS are, Antiochus defiled the temple for EXACTLY 2300 days. He is the Little horn spoken of in Daniel 8, and applying this prophecy to the end time Antichrist is a mistake, which leads to all kinds of errant eschatological timelines out there.

It is you who is making the same error as the SDA and JW's do in applying Daniel 8 to where it does not belong, and making your end time timelines errant.... you need to change this if you want anyone to take you seriously. I am just trying to help you out here, because anyone who is a scholar in eschatology will immediately dismiss you as a novice when you make this mistake.

Wish churches would train the saints more in biblical typology so that the saints would be able to recognize that Antiochus is the type of 'the Antichrist' (whom the Bible doesn't actually call by that description, but at least we know what is meant by the term).

Those days also depend on whether or not the year is what we would call a leap year - but the biblical calendar's leap years of course work completely differently - so sometimes the final 3.5 years of a seven-year cycle would be 1,290 days instead of 1, 260 days. I learned that from Chris Gedge.

More importantly, the abomination set up by Antiochus did not result in the destruction of the temple - but the abominations mentioned in Daniel 9:27 did accompany the destruction of the temple. And Antiochus is a biblical type of the man of sin / son of perdition.

Daniel 11
36 And the king shall do according to his will. And he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvelous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper until the fury is fulfilled. For that which is decreed shall be done.
37 He will not regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god. For he shall magnify himself above all.

2 Thessalonians 2
3 Let not anyone deceive you by any means. For that Day shall not come unless there first comes a falling away, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself forth, that he is God.

As if the above isn't handing people here enough ammo to shoot me with (which is going to happen), the 6th seal events, the 6 trumpet events, and the 6tth plague events (6 6 6) all come immediately before the thunders of the 7th seal and 7th trumpet and 7th plague (7 7 7).

The 6th trumpet is the 2nd woe, and the text links the second woe to both the 6th trumpet, and the 1,260 days of the two witnesses prophecy. It's the final 1,260 days leading up to the 7th trumpet. We see armies being gathered for battle in both the 6th trumpet and the 6th plague. It's the 42-month reign of the beast.

The first woe is linked by the text to the 5th trumpet. That's the time that the abyss is opened. The beast ascends out of the abyss (Revelation 17:8).

"And the fifth angel sounded (his trumpet). And I saw a star fall from the heaven to the earth, and it was given the key to the abyss.

And it opened the abyss. And there arose a smoke out of the pit, like the smoke of a great furnace.

-----------------------
And the sun and air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit.
-----------------------
(Revelation 9:1-2)​

"And the fifth angel poured out his vial (bowl of wrath / plague) on the throne of the beast,

----------------------
and its kingdom became darkened.
----------------------
(Revelation 16:10)​

The 5th seal is telling us that the martyrdom of the saints in the final great tribulation (6th seal, 6th trumpet and 6th bowl) is about to occur - not in those words, but that's basically what it's saying.

What's about to follow is revenge against the saints and all out war against Christ, because the locust plague did not harm those who have the seal of God on their foreheads - think of Moses and Aaron, God's two witnesses in Egypt, and the plague of locusts God brought upon Egypt by their hands.

But the plague of locusts torments those who it does harm:

10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom became darkened. And they gnawed their tongues from the pain. (Revelation 16)

3 And out of the smoke came forth locusts onto the earth. And authority was given to them, as the scorpions of the earth have authority.
4 And they were commanded not to hurt the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months. And their torment was like a scorpion's torment when he stings a man.
6 And in those days men will seek death and will not find it. And they will long to die, and death will flee from them. (Revelation 9).

So both the 5th trumpet and 5th plague both talk about a plague of darkness and pain and torment - but not for those who have the seal of God on their foreheads.

10 And the ones who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them (the martyred two witnesses), and will make merry, and will send one another gifts, because these two prophets tormented those living on the earth. (Revelation 11).

The 6th trumpet and 6th plague events are a revenge attack on the saints (Revelation 13:7). The 5th seal tells us what's coming for the saints (but it's not here yet). The 5th trumpet and 5th plague tell us about the darkness and pain and torment of those who follow the beast

- and then comes the 6th trumpet's and 6th plague's gathering of the beast's armies. The dragon's war at the hands of the beast against the saints has begun (Revelation 13:7). The two witnesses will be prophesying clothed in sackcloth for that 42 months.

- and the 6th seal tells us that the kings of the earth know what follows immediately after this in the thunders. The kings of the earth mentioned in the 6th seal committed fornication with the harlot (Revelation 18:9). The kings of the earth are identified in Revelation 1:5-6. There is an apostasy coming (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4; Matthew 24:10).

 

[No Pre-TB]

How I word this is that the wrath of the lamb is a judgment on the church, and the wrath of God is a judgment on the world.

I agree there is only 1 second coming. Not 2 and not one in the air and a third when his feet touch the ground.

I have it like this. The Orge wrath is directed on Babylon to answer the 5th seal martyrs. The Thumos wrath is the destruction of the wicked. This is the wrath the church is free from; his outpoured undiluted wrath.

 

[ewq1938]

I have no issue with what you said here. The sixth seal, as the sign of the son of man and the coming wrath of God on the Day of the Lord will flee underground to try and escape it.

They are not to try to survive. They go to the rocks and caves in hopes of dying.

 

[Zao is life]

I agree there is only 1 second coming. Not 2 and not one in the air and a third when his feet touch the ground.

I have it like this. The Orge wrath is directed on Babylon to answer the 5th seal martyrs. The Thumos wrath is the destruction of the wicked. This is the wrath the church is free from; his outpoured undiluted wrath.

I disagree with this. God's wrath (orgḗ) is always produced by His burning anger, and there is only one type of wrath:

HEBREW:

Isaiah 13:13
So I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall move out of its place, in the wrath [5679 ‛ebrâh] of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of His fierce [2740 chârôn] anger [639 'aph].

H5679 ‛ebrâh Feminine of H5676; an outburst of passion: - {anger} {rage} wrath.

H2740 chârôn From H2734 (BELOW) ; a burning of anger: - sore {displeasure} fierce ({-ness}) {fury} (fierce) wrath (-ful).

H2734 chârâh to glow or grow warm; figuratively (usually) to blaze {up} of {anger} {zeal} jealousy: - be {angry} {burn} be {displeased} X {earnestly} fret {self} {grieve} be (wax) {hot} be {incensed} {kindle} X {very} be wroth.

H639 'aph af From H599 (BELOW); properly the nose or nostril; hence the {face} and occasionally a person; also (from the rapid breathing in passion) ire: - anger

H599 'ânaph A primitive root; to breathe {hard} that {is} be enraged: - be angry (displeased).

The one refers to the emotion - the burning anger - the other to the action produced by the burning anger.

GREEK:

Ephesians 4:31
Let all bitterness and (English translation): wrath [G2372 thymós] and anger [orgḗ G3709] and tumult and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.

G2372 thymós, from 2380 (BELOW); passion (as if breathing hard):--fierceness, indignation, wrath.

02380 thýō, A primary verb; properly, to rush (breathe hard, blow, smoke), i.e. (by implication) to sacrifice (properly, by fire, but genitive case); by extension to immolate (slaughter for any purpose):--kill, (do) sacrifice, slay.

03709 orgḗ, from 3713; properly, desire (as a reaching forth or excitement of the mind), i.e. (by analogy), violent passion (ire, or (justifiable) abhorrence); by implication punishment:--anger, indignation, vengeance, wrath.

Like the Hebrew words chârôn and 'aph, in Ephesians 4:31 the Greek words thymós and orgḗ are referring to the burning anger which produces the action of wrath. It's not speaking of the action of wrath itself.

Wrath and thymós are used interchangebaly, either for the emotion, or for the action produced by the emotion - but it's not always referring to the action. The same goes for the Hebrew word chârôn:

Exodus 15:7
And in the greatness of Your excellency You have overthrown them that rose up against You. You sent forth Your wrath [chârôn], consuming them like stubble.

Isaiah 13:13
So I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall move out of its place, in the wrath [5679 ‛ebrâh] of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of His fierce [2740 chârôn] anger [639 'aph].

Revelation 16:19
And the great city came to be into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give to her the cup of the wine of the anger [thymós] of His wrath [orgḗ].

My point is, as far as the action produced by the emotion (the burning anger) is concerned, there is only one type of it - only one type of wrath. Your post seems to imply that there are two different types of wrath produced by burning anger.

But there is only one group who are subject to this ultimate wrath of God.

 

[Zao is life]

Why I posted the link to the commentary is because it shows you the fulfillment of Daniel 8 prophecy and gives you the dates, and shows that Daniel is a prophecy which is already fulfilled. It has nothing to do with the end time Antichrist, and your timeline uses this 2300 days where it does not apply, and is a rookie mistake in eschatology. So go ahead and keep making the same error over and over again if you want, but the fruit of misapplying this prophecy are things like the millerite disappointment etc. and you are making that same error over again. Daniel 8 prophecy is a historical fact already, and the 2300 mornings and evenings are already a fulfilled prophecy.... again EXACTLY 2300 days of Antiochus defiling the temple.

Thanks for that commentary. It seems informed and informative and seems to cover the matter comprehensively, so I for one will definitely read it. One of the ways in which we learn is by having the humility to learn from others, and the Holy Spirit will give us discernment to know good teachers from false teachers, if we ask God for it.

 

[No Pre-TB]

the 6th seal events, the 6 trumpet events, and the 6tth plague events (6 6 6) all come immediately before the thunders of the 7th seal and 7th trumpet and 7th plague (7 7 7).

What?
That sounds confusing and contradictory.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Your post seems to imply that there are two different types of wrath produced by burning anger.

But there is only one group who are subject to this ultimate wrath of God.

I was referring to the 2 words for wrath in Revelation and how I view the passage in each as having a specific function.

Orge
Orgē comes from the verb oragō meaning, 'to teem, to swell'; and thus implies that it is not a sudden outburst, but rather (referring to God's) fixed, controlled, passionate feeling against sin

Thumos
thymós) is used of God's perfect, holy wrathin Revelation

Thumos deals with boiling up and soon subsides; Orge doesn’t function that way. Orge isn’t a sudden outburst and Thumos can be.

 

[David H.]

What?
That sounds confusing and contradictory.

Not to me, Instead of thinking of revelation as a linear prophecy, Think of it as a series of seven Prophecies/visions. Each staring at a distinct point in time, but they all culminate at the second coming of Christ. This is what I mean by seeing it in three dimensions, in that when the visions overlap they explain one another and add more depth to each event.

 

[Timtofly]

In Luke 21 Jesus Prophesied of the 70ad abomination Luke 21:4.

Luke 21 never mentions the AoD one time.

That is adding to the Gospel.

 

[Timtofly]

The core of the Apocalypse (the part that is the scroll that is sealed) is the first and second seals, and it is on top of these that all the other layers have been placed.

Scroll?

"And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals."

At what point is this book changed into a scroll? The Greek word can mean scroll, but only one place in the Gospels where Christ was reading from an actual Hebrew scroll. The Lamb's book of life is not a scroll. Believe it or not, God had books before creation.

 

[Zao is life]

Scroll?

"And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals."

At what point is this book changed into a scroll? The Greek word can mean scroll, but only one place in the Gospels where Christ was reading from an actual Hebrew scroll. The Lamb's book of life is not a scroll. Believe it or not, God had books before creation.

Ai yai yai Timtofly. Sometimes you enjoy arguing about nothing. Scroll/book can be used interchangeably but I think in the Revelation we are given the image of a scroll that unrolls once the seventh seal is loosened. What's written in it is written on both sides of the scroll.

@Timtofly These things are all related:-

Revelation 1
4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia. Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is coming; and from the seven spirits which are before His throne.

Revelation 5
6 And I looked, and lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, amidst the elders, a Lamb stood, as if it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Zechariah 3
9 For behold! I will bring forth My Servant the Branch. For behold the stone that I have set before Joshua: On one stone are seven eyes. Behold, I will engrave its engraving, says the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

Zechariah 4
10 For who has despised the day of small things? For they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel. These seven (lamps of the lampstand) are the eyes of the LORD which run to and fro through the whole earth.

Zechariah 4
2 And I said, I see, and behold, a lampstand, all of it gold, and a bowl on its top, and its seven lamps on it, and seven pipes to the seven lamps on its top;
3 and two olive trees beside it, one on the right of the bowl, and the other on the left of it.
4 And I answered and spoke to the angel who talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
5 Then the angel who talked with me answered and said to me, Do you know what these are? And I said, No, my lord.
6 Then he answered and spoke to me, saying, This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, says the LORD of hosts.

Revelation 11
3 And I will give power to My two witnesses, and they will prophesy a thousand, two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth.

Seven spirits of God. The seven spirits of God are sent forth into all the earth. These are the seven eyes of the Lamb.

Seven eyes, seven churches, seven lamps, seven seals, two olive trees, two witnesses.

The seven seals required the Lamb with the seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God, to loosen them.

That's what's important. Whether we call it a book or a scroll is unimportant.

 

[Timtofly]

Ai yai yai Timtofly. Sometimes you enjoy arguing about nothing. Scroll/book can be used interchangeably but I think in the Revelation we are given the image of a scroll that unrolls once the seventh seal is loosened. What's written in it is written on both sides of the scroll.

@Timtofly These things are all related:-

Revelation 1
4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia. Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is coming; and from the seven spirits which are before His throne.

Revelation 5
6 And I looked, and lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, amidst the elders, a Lamb stood, as if it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Zechariah 3
9 For behold! I will bring forth My Servant the Branch. For behold the stone that I have set before Joshua: On one stone are seven eyes. Behold, I will engrave its engraving, says the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

Zechariah 4
10 For who has despised the day of small things? For they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel. These seven (lamps of the lampstand) are the eyes of the LORD which run to and fro through the whole earth.

Zechariah 4
2 And I said, I see, and behold, a lampstand, all of it gold, and a bowl on its top, and its seven lamps on it, and seven pipes to the seven lamps on its top;
3 and two olive trees beside it, one on the right of the bowl, and the other on the left of it.
4 And I answered and spoke to the angel who talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
5 Then the angel who talked with me answered and said to me, Do you know what these are? And I said, No, my lord.
6 Then he answered and spoke to me, saying, This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, says the LORD of hosts.

Revelation 11
3 And I will give power to My two witnesses, and they will prophesy a thousand, two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth.

Seven spirits of God. The seven spirits of God are sent forth into all the earth. These are the seven eyes of the Lamb.

Seven eyes, seven churches, seven lamps, seven seals, two olive trees, two witnesses.

The seven seals required the Lamb with the seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God, to loosen them.

That's what's important. Whether we call it a book or a scroll is unimportant.

The Lamb's book of life with everyone's name written in who have been redeemed is a book, not a scroll.

You think it is only symbolic of revealing future events. Seems it is a more important book than just your symbolism. Why talk in symbols, when plain written English works just fine?

We know who Jesus is. We know about the Cross. Jesus unseals the Lamb's book of life. After the 7th Seal is removed, it will be possible to remove names from the Lamb's book of life. When the Trumpets sound, many will be removed, and sent to their eternal destination. Perhaps that is not as exciting as just talking about symbols and all those interesting puzzle pieces of death and destruction?

 

[Zao is life]

The Lamb's book of life with everyone's name written in who have been redeemed is a book, not a scroll.

Sure.

Revelation 20:12 "And I saw the dead, the small and the great, stand before God. And the books [G975 βιβλίον biblíon] were opened, and another book [G975 βιβλίον biblíon] was opened, which is the Book [G975 βιβλίον biblíon] of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books [G975 βιβλίον biblíon], according to their works."

Revelation 6:14 "And the heaven departed like a scroll [G975 βιβλίον biblíon] when it is rolled together. And every mountain and island were moved out of their places."

[G975 βιβλίον biblíon]

00975
βιβλίον biblíon, bib-lee'-on
a diminutive of 976;
a roll:--bill, book, scroll, writing.

A library in Dutch is a bibliotheek. In German it's a Bibliothek. The Bible is a Bibliothek, a library of scrolls or books. The word Bible comes from the word [G975 βιβλίον biblíon].

The modern English word for [G975 βιβλίον biblíon] is "book". We don't talk about scrolls anymore, but the words biblíon, book, Bible, bibliotheek, Bibliothek, scroll/s all mean the same thing.

It's scrolls / books that are opened at the Great White Throne.

And thanks for your usual habit of taking many different topics and rolling them up into one like a scroll.

Hope you were out doing street evangelism today to prove how concerned you are about when the 7th seal is loosened and the 7th trumpet sounds. I guess you weren't. Like me, you were typing in this forum. But your statements have been rather less meaningless than you claim mine have been.

@Timtofly In any case the book of Revelation we read is about the visions John saw. And the vision of the scroll or book of life he saw is metaphor for a spiritual reality - a list of names Jesus knows. Those names are not written in physical books as though God is absent-minded and needs a record. The record exists in Christ and hence, in the mind of God.

Edited: So we could continue with the debate about this as though to compete now as to who can make the most useless, meaningless statement in one post, or we can just stop it.

 

[Marvin Christopher Fox]

Hi michaelvpardo, so many things I like about your post. And you as well. Especially your understanding of communication and devotion to it's primary function.
You seem to know that good communication is not just an expression of unambiguous truth but the love for truth required to receive it unambiguously. Not to mention that what you wrote inspired me. I don't usually write posts this long so if that prevents anyone from reading all of it....I wouldn't blame them.

As far as an authority structure within the church, Jesus Himself taught "servant leadership" and obedience to established authority, both temporal and that established through the law of Moses. While scripture proclaims us equal in Christ, an authority structure of mature elders, pastors, and bishops is a necessity demanded by the carnal nature resident in believers and the practices of church discipline to maintain order and correct the behavior of sinning

If we are to discuss the 'structure' of divine authority from beginning to now we have to mention the chair of Moses. The continuity of divine authority from Moses to Christ's Church is temporally anchored in Moses' seat of judgement. Jesus taught and demonstrated full obedience to the chair of Moses. Even though the wicked men that He would be handed over to were seated on it. " Do what they say but don't do as they do."
Nevertheless, He subjected Himself to their authority not because they were righteous but because of their office within the structure of authority established by God through Moses.

Remember when Pilate asserted his authority over Jesus? Jesus taught Pilate that the religious authority of Jerusalem was above the secular authority of Rome when He said" You would have no authority over me if I hadn't been handed to you from above". Then to seal the matter Jesus added that the Jews guilt for His execution is greater than his.

True innocence is lawlessness, and doesn't describe behavior at all, but lack of knowledge of the law, the lack of consciousness of sin.

Good insight. No need for an outward expression or conscious awareness of law if it is written without ambiguity in our hearts. In other words human behaviour by the Grace of God was naturally lawful before the fall.

Christians to be more attentive to the working of conscience because that's where lawlessness and the iniquity Paul taught is hidden is making itself visible and powerful. Today it dispenses consolation for sinful deeds and guilt for opposing those lawless deeds to the multitudes who accept its dictates.
Conscience is the natural sanctuary God created in which man meets with God. Authority is required for it to form. First parental. Then whoever the parents subject themselves to. Conscience has the power to punish or reward our deeds. In real time. The image of good that formed the conscience of western society is Christian.

For a few generations now different image is taking it's seat in that sanctuary God created where man meets with God. A more beastly image. Beastly because it's law appeals to the the law of death fallen flesh serves.

Have you noticed the development of a conscience formed in opposition to the Christian conscience founded by Christians? It punishes what is lawful and rewards what is not. That image of good is the lawless one. The Beast. The son of perdition.

Also have you noticed that the social and cultural forces that support sinful behavior and death have little or no love for truth?

helps if you understand that although the beast and false prophet oppose God, they were still sent by God to test humanity, to divide those who love the truth from those that love lies and take their pleasure in unrighteousness. God keeps them hidden until their purpose is fulfilled

The current visibility and power of lawlessness may become hidden in darkness again. I dunno. May the social structures that it formed be materially recognized as deformations to be cast out forever.
I agree with you wholeheartedly that love of truth or lack thereof will be what divides us.