1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured THE MYSTERY REVEALED TO PAUL

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Doug, Mar 23, 2020.

  1. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    287
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

    The mystery revealed to Paul is:

    The gospel of Christ is that by his death and resurrection, we have forgiveness of sin and eternal life, by believing he died for our sins and rose for our justification. All can be justified freely by God’s grace through faith in Christ Jesus, and his blood, as our propitiation (Romans 3:22-26 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 Romans 4:24-25).

    The identity of a new creature, called the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:27).
     
    XRose and Paul Christensen like this.
  2. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,658
    Likes Received:
    2,710
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    BINGO, another mystery that has been solved, may I add one more? .... well two, 1 John 2:2, and John 4:42, I love the last one, because John 4:42 just poke about all stubbon men, (males), right in the eye... :rolleyes:

    PICJAG
     
  3. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    287
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The mystery was hid in God before it was revealed to Paul so it could not have been made known before it was revealed to Paul. That Jesus was saviour of the world could not have been mystery, so it was prophecy. In prophecy Isaiah 52:10 declared his salvation unto the world.
     
    Paul Christensen likes this.
  4. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,567
    Likes Received:
    3,278
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Are you sure you got that right? When Jesus preached the gospel, was he talking about his death and resurrection?

    Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
     
    Paul Christensen likes this.
  5. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,658
    Likes Received:
    2,710
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Correct, because it was known, but not understood, for it was from the foundation of thwe world, scripture, Genesis 2:1 "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
    Genesis 2:2 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
    Genesis 2:3 "And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

    and the prophets spoke of this rest throughtout the bible... "Salvation".

    Hebrews 4:1 "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
    Hebrews 4:2 "For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
    Hebrews 4:3 "For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
    Hebrews 4:4 "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
    Hebrews 4:5 "And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
    Hebrews 4:6 "Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
    Hebrews 4:7 "Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
    Hebrews 4:8 "For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
    Hebrews 4:9 "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.Hebrews 4:10 "For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.Hebrews 4:11 "Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

    PICJAG.
     
  6. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    287
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The gospel of the kingdom is found in these verses:

    Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

    Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

    The kingdom of God which he said was at hand was the promised, prophetic thousand year kingdom on earth.

    Jesus told the disciples he would die and resurrect but they didn't understand it (Mark 9:31-32). He would die for the new testament for Israel (Luke 22:20 Hebrews 9:15).

    That Jesus died for our sins and rose for our justification was not revealed before Paul.
     
    Paul Christensen likes this.
  7. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    287
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Yes, and Paul not only preached mystery, but also the law and prophets (Romans 16:25-26) as in Acts 13:47. Just because John said Jesus was saviour of the world according to prophecy does not mean he was speaking the mystery that Paul preaches, that Christ redeemed and justified all freely by the cross.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
  8. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,658
    Likes Received:
    2,710
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    correct, Luke 24:44 "And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
    Luke 24:45 "Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
    Luke 24:46 "And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day".

    PICJAG.
     
    Doug likes this.
  9. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,105
    Likes Received:
    995
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    Correct. Jesus gave His teaching to the "lost sheep of Israel". He was preparing them for the future gospel to be preached involving His finished work on Calvary and His resurrection from the dead. He told His disciples that there were more things for them to learn but they could not receive them at that time, but when the Holy Spirit has come, He will teach them, and us, all things. This took place with the letters of Paul, Peter, James, John, Jude, and the Apostle to the Hebrews. All these were the Holy Spirit giving the important future gospel teaching through these men.

    So instead of saying "Paul said this", or "James said that", etc., it is more accurate to say, "The Holy Spirit spoke [whatever] through Paul" or Peter, or the others. In this way we are not implying that what was written was just the opinion of the Apostles, but was God's communication through these men, and therefore Holy Scripture as equal value as Moses and the Prophets.

    By the way, some pastors are teaching that we should ignore the Old Testament and concentrate on Jesus. This is a serious error, leading to heresy, because all the Apostles taught from the Old Testament to show how Jesus came, was crucified for our sins, and was resurrected "according to the Scriptures", meaning the Old Testament. I believe that the Apostles make good use of Isaiah 53 in their preaching of the gospel to the Jews. (Just a bit of useful information to consider to avoid a modern developing heresy.)
     
  10. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,567
    Likes Received:
    3,278
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    You have me confused about what you believe.
     
  11. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,105
    Likes Received:
    995
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    It was the Holy Spirit speaking through Paul that "therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God" was first stated.
     
  12. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,567
    Likes Received:
    3,278
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    What does that have to do with the gospel Jesus and his disciples preached? What gospel did Jesus mean here when he said "this gospel":

    Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    I don't think Paul was preaching a new gospel.
     
  13. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,452
    Likes Received:
    8,237
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    No. Just wait till Hercule Poirot shows up!

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,105
    Likes Received:
    995
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    We have to remember that Jesus was preparing the Jews for the gospel that was going to be preached after His crucifixion and resurrection. Paul is not preaching another gospel. Jesus told His disciples that everything they needed to know could not be told to them at that time, but the Holy Spirit when He comes will lead them into all truth.

    Jesus preached to those who were still believing in the Messiah to come. Most of these people rejected Him and His message. We see that when the crowds realised that commitment to Him was more than just getting free lunches and free healing. When He started telling them about being identified with His death, most of them felt that was too difficult for them and they departed from Him. Jesus was so concerned about that He asked his 12 disciples whether they would depart from Him as well. Peter replied, "Where will we go? You have the words of eternal life."

    So what Jesus preached to the Jews was that the kingdom of God is with them in His personal presence with them, and He encouraged them to believe in Him as their Messiah. Most of the Jews, except for the 12 disciples, rejected Him and clamoured for His death in front of Pontius Pilate.

    So, after His death, resurrection and ascension, the Holy Spirit came on the day of Pentecost, and Peter preached the first gospel message, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved", plus a lot of other things, and as a result 3000 turned to Christ. But neither Peter nor John had received the full revelation of justification by faith, and their ministry was to the Jews and not yet to the Gentiles, although God had to give Peter a vision to encourage him to give the gospel to Cornelius' household, with the result that the Holy Spirit fell on them too. I think this was God's preparation for when Paul came to Jerusalem to share the gospel he was preaching to the Gentiles, and Peter's testimony was a significant factor for the Apostles giving Paul the right hand of fellowship and to acknowledge that he was preaching the same gospel as they were.

    When, after his conversion, Paul went into seclusion in Arabia for three years. Jesus gave him the same training in that three years he gave to the other Apostles in the three years He was with them. Along with that, He gave him the completion of the gospel which revealed justification by faith bringing peace with God.

    It was not that those who received Christ under the ministry of Peter, John, Stephen and Phillip, were different to those converted under Paul's ministry, but the Holy Spirit through Paul completed the information about how converts gained full standing with God in Christ, revealing the full mystery of the gospel to Jews and Gentiles. It was not that Paul's gospel was superior or any way different than the others, but merging the teaching the Holy Spirit gave through all the Apostles, including Paul, completed the full "theology" (for want of a better word) of the gospel of Christ.

    Jesus' preaching showed how the righteousness they needed had to be more than just the righteousness of the Pharisees which was just a compliance with the external rules of the Law, but the heart remaining unaffected. This is how, under Mosaic Law, a man can comply with the Law even though he lusts in his heart after a "hot chick" but keeps the Law by refraining from fornicating with her. But Jesus preached that there must be a change of heart that that just lusting after a woman in his heart falls short of the righteousness that God requires.

    The completion of the gospel revelation through Paul, showed the way that a convert to Christ can achieve the righteousness that is required - by receiving the righteousness of Christ: "Christ was made sin for us, so that we can become the righteousness of God in Him". Jesus didn't preach that, because He had not died on the cross yet, but after His death and the abolition of the Old Covenant, and the coming of the Holy Spirit, the full revelation of converts to Christ becoming the righteousness of God was able to be revealed.

    I hope this sort of makes it clear.
     
  15. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    287
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Yes, Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep.

    Jesus however, was preparing Israel for the promised Davidic kingdom on earth. Their gospel was only the gospel of the kingdom, the name of Jesus, that he is Messiah,Son of God, and to be a priest in that kingdom and reign with Christ repent, be baptized, keep the commandments and endure to the end.

    All the parables were for preparation of the millennial kingdom.
     
    charity and Paul Christensen like this.
  16. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    287
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    James, Peter, and John do not preach the gospel of grace revealed to Paul
     
    charity likes this.
  17. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    287
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Paul preached the old testament because he preached Christ from the law and prophets. He preached the death and resurrection for our justification from the mystery (Romans 16:25-26).

    The old testament spoke of the Lord's death and resurrection for the sins of Israel. The mystery revealed it was for all.
     
    Paul Christensen likes this.
  18. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    287
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    God was reconciling heaven and earth.

    Israel was to be a holy nation of priests on earth, the earthly kingdom, to bring the Gentile nations to God. They were to believe on the name of Christ and the gospel of the kingdom. They rejected Christ and this was interrupted by the dispensation of grace. After this dispensation God will turn again to Israel and the kingdom on earth will be established for a thousand years, then the new heavens and earth and all things will be gathered in Christ.

    Paul revealed a heavenly kingdom in this dispensation, the body of Christ would reconcile the heavenly kingdom. Both Jew and Gentile are to believe the gospel of grace.
     
    charity and Paul Christensen like this.
  19. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,105
    Likes Received:
    995
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    Okay. So you don't think that it was the same Holy Spirit who inspired the letters of James, Peter, and John, who inspired Paul's letters? Do you think that the Holy Spirit gave the other three a different gospel? How does that relate to the Holy Spirit speaking through Paul to the Galatians, "If even an angel from heaven preaches another gospel than the one I preach, let him be accursed". Does this mean that the Holy Spirit inspired James, Peter, and John to preach an alternate gospel that results in them being cursed of God.

    Because I believe that the same Holy Spirit spoke through all the Apostles, including Paul, the notion that James, Peter, and John preached another gospel doesn't make sense to me.

    Of course, someone who doesn't believe that the Holy Spirit spoke through the authors of the New Testament could believe that different Apostles preached different gospels according to whether they were preaching to Jews or Gentiles.
     
  20. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,568
    Likes Received:
    331
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    South Africa
    Not?
    [​IMG]
     
Loading...