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Featured THE MYSTERY REVEALED TO PAUL

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Doug, Mar 23, 2020.

  1. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Again you introduce a passage which isn't about the gospel. I'd suggest you read all the passages that use the word "gospel" to see what you find.
     
  2. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 14:7 says what gospel the angel was preaching: Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

    The thrust of this gospel is the hour of judgment during the tribulation.
     
  3. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

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    I did not say Jesus and the twelve preached this gospel....this is the gospel revealed to Paul for this dispensation of grace.
     
  4. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

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    You were asking about the thousand year reign
     
  5. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

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    It does not say that
     
  6. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

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    Once again, this was in response to you talking about the thousand years.
     
  7. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

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    Please tell me how do we go to heaven.
     
  8. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Is that good news?

    So now you have three gospels?

    I'm still wondering how the thousand year reign got introduced and mixed in with the discussion.

    Everlasting means everlasting. You seem to have three gospels occurring at different times.

    What some people also miss is that an angel is preaching the gospel without asking how that could be true. It connects with what Jesus and Paul said of the gospel.

    Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
    7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

    So this angel was preaching to every nation on the earth. Connect that now to what Jesus and Paul said.

    Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

    Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;


    So Paul says the gospel had been preached already to every creature when he wrote Colossians. Yes, men had preached it some places; but it had been preached to the whole world even where missionaries had not reached. It was preached by angels. Paul knew about that too, knew that angels could preach the gospel. And he specifically said that even if an angel preached a different gospel, not to believe it. No angels were preaching other gospels -- no, it was the one gospel. There is only one gospel.

    Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
    I don't think the Bible promises Christians will go to heaven. Some may, but the Bible does not make that promise. Christians talk a lot about it; but it's not in the Bible.
     
  9. Grams

    Grams Well-Known Member

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    Eph. 2:



    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    9
    Not of works, lest any man should boast.
     
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  10. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @Giuliano,

    I was saved by hearing the gospel of the grace of God preached. In which I heard that I had sinned and come short of the glory of God, and that the wages of sin is death, that I needed a Saviour. I heard that God had provided a Saviour for me, in the person of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, Who had taken upon Himself the penalty of sin, and died in my place, so that if I placed my trust in Him, my sins would be forgiven me, and I would have the gift of God's own righteousness imputed to me, and receive the gift of eternal life in Him. That was way back in 1960, when I was 12 years old,

    * That is not the everlasting gospel, Giuliano.
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
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  11. XRose

    XRose Member

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    Paul's warning to the Galatians was because the Jews were telling the new Christians they had to be circumcised and follow Jews food laws etc when Jesus had clarly said all those laws did not apply to Christians.
     
  12. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

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    Ok then what is the gospel
     
  13. XRose

    XRose Member

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    You forget that Jesus has already resurrected many dead?
    Did the disciples doubt those resurrections?
    Jesus had shown himself master of life and death.
     
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  14. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    Great! Knowing this, we can resolve difficult passages of Scripture by using other passages of Scripture to interpret, knowing that it is the Holy Spirit who has inspired all of it from Genesis 1 to the end of Revelation.

    We are able to work out which Scriptures are written for us, for our education but not necessarily direct instructions to us; and those Scriptures which are direct instructions to us. I think some get confused between the two, causing problems for them. For example, much of the teaching and life of Jesus was written for us, to make us aware of what Jesus did for us, and to show the level of righteousness that we need to get to in order to be accepted by God. He taught and commanded knowing that we would never achieve what was expected as natural people. I think He did that to show us that we are helpless sinners, having broken all the Ten Commandments and would be found guilty at the judgment bar of God if we did nothing about it.

    What the Apostles after Pentecost showed that we can do something about it - believe that Jesus paid the sin debt on Calvary, repent, and receive Christ as Saviour and Lord. It is as if our plane is going down in flames and we have just one parachute which we have to put on and trust in it.

    The Holy Spirit through Paul shows our standing with Christ after we have repented and received Christ; that there is no condemnation for us as we remain in Christ, walking in the Spirit. John says the same thing but he call it walking in the light as Jesus is in the light. This shows that Paul and John are in unity, although each are using different terminology.
     
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  15. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that these were different gospels in the sense that they did not depart from the need to repent of sin and receive Christ as Saviour and Lord; but it was the gospel adapted to different kinds of hearers. Peter preached the gospel to the Jews, using the Old Testament Scriptures to show Christ through them. Paul did the same when he preached Christ in the Jewish synagogues - we see this in his words: "according to the Scriptures". But when he preached the gospel to Gentiles who did not have the Jewish Scriptures, he used other methods - such as quoting from their own pagan poet at Athens, and having the Holy Spirit work signs and wonders among them. If we read Acts carefully, we will see that the signs and wonders occurred mainly among the Gentiles than in the Jewish synagogues - I believe the Jews had the Scriptures, and the Gentiles needed other things to convince them.

    This leads me to a very interesting thought, and you will see that me, having a Pentecostal background (although I left the movement in 1978, bu the movement never left me), that now most of us in the western world have the Bible, we don't see the same signs and wonders. I never before saw the link in Acts where Peter and Paul used the Scriptures to convince the Jews and therefore didn't need to have signs and wonders, but signs and wonders occurred among the Gentiles because there was no foundation of Scripture for them.

    It is interesting that this is consistent with Cessationist teaching - that because we have the set canon of Scripture, we don't need signs and wonders. For me to be in unity with Cessationists is a miracle!! :)

    Yet, we do see signs and wonders in third countries where paganism is dominant and the common people have no knowledge of the Bible. We can't say to them, "The Bible says..." because they would say, "What's a Bible?" I can believe that in parts of our western countries where the occult is dominant, signs and wonders could occur - to show that Jesus Christ is more powerful than the occult spirits.

    And I think that we will see more signs and wonders as people move away from the authority of the Bible - but in saying that, we need to be sober and vigilant because both Jesus and Paul said that there will be false prophets bringing false signs and wonders to draw people away from Christ.

    I thought I would give the time to share this in the hope that it will be of assistance to those who might be confused between the bits of the Bible that are for us and other bits that are direct instructions to us.
     
  16. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Were you taught that you need to repent of sins as you learned they were sins? I ask that since I've noticed several people don't mention repentance. And true repentance means being truly regretful, wishing you could back and undo what you did -- and then not repeating those past mistakes. Were you taught that the Holy Spirit can teach us how to mature by learning more about the ways we can sin, so we become more like Jesus?

    I also don't know what Paul and some others mean when they talk about "imputing" righteousness. Does this mean someone can continue to sin, but God will pretend he's righteous? Or does it mean God can make that person righteous when he didn't know how to become righteous by his own efforts?

    How could the saints who died before Jesus lived ever be saved? How then can all Israel be saved?
     
  17. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    I can tell you what I believe.

    The Gospel is that God is Love, God loves us all and wishes the best for us. If we turn away from our sins through repentance, God will forgive us and all will end well for us. God will provide what we need if we have faith in His Love, Wisdom and Power, and if we are willing ourselves to obey the Golden Rule by loving others. God will provide.

    We do not need to understand all the details. We do not need be "as wise as God" the way Eve wanted to be in order to saved. Thus people who never heard of Jesus can be saved if they believe in God's Perfection and Love. They may not understand the idea of a Messiah, they may not even have heard of Jesus; but if they have faith in the goodness of God, they know God will provide. God could justify Abraham and others mentioned in the Old Testament because they had faith in His Goodness and because they acted on their faith.

    We cannot live like the Devil while saying we have faith in God. God can change us for the better, can make us into saints, if we have faith in Him and allow Him to work in us. Thus obeying the Golden Rule is a key since it is through keeping it, we show we have faith in God and love Him and our fellow man. If we are living like the Devil, it means our faith is in the Devil.

    1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
     
  18. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @Giuliano,

    Though only 12 years old, I was very conscious of my sin, and overwhelmingly conscious of the debt I owed to the Lord Jesus Christ who had died in my place. The word of God, concerning His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, had entered my heart, and taken root, and it's fruits were being seen in sorrow for sin, and an overwhelming consciousness of the grace of God, Who had saved me, not by works of righteousness that I had done, but because of His great love, on the basis of the love poured forth by His Son on Calvary's cross.

    * You refer to what Paul says about righteousness being imputed to us. Romans 3:20-25 explains this very well.

    'Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight:
    .. for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
    But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested,
    .. being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
    .... even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ
    ...... unto all and upon all them that believe:
    for there is no difference:
    .. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
    .. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood,
    .... to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,
    ...... through the forbearance of God;

    ........ declare, I say, at this time His righteousness:

    that He might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.'

    Praise God!

    His workmanship!
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
  19. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations,
    but now is made manifest to his saints:
    To whom God would make known
    what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles;
    which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:'

    (Colossians 1:26-27)

    Hello there, @Doug & Co.,

    The subject of this thread, is, 'The Mystery Revealed to Paul' of Ephesians 3. It is a subject that is rarely considered, but which is vitally important to the believer in this dispensation of grace. Vital to our spiritual well-being, and our walk and witness. Yet even in this thread it is being smothered and lost, overshadowed by other considerations. Yet it is what Paul tells us - 'God would make known'.

    The prayer of Ephesians 1:15-23 is one which each of us needs to pray, both for ourselves and for each other, followed by the prayer of Ephesians 3:14-21. Because the knowledge given by God to Paul, and expressed in those epistles written subsequently, ( ie., Ephesians, Philippians and Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon), need the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of God in Christ Jesus in order to receive enlightenment, and be able to fully know and acknowledge what is revealed there, in both heart and life.

    Thank you.
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  20. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    I did not see a direct answer to my questions.

    Does this mean someone can continue to sin, but God will pretend he's righteous? Or does it mean God can make that person righteous when he didn't know how to become righteous by his own efforts?

    Can a person become righteous in fact? Or does salvation depend on God's pretending we are righteous when we are not? I believe if we have the right kind of faith in the True God, we can indeed become righteous in a real way that is not make-believe or pretend. Yet I get the idea that some who talk about the imputing of righteousness that we can never be righteous. "It's impossible, give up and expect God to 'impute' righteousness to you." Jesus called some men righteous, so Paul continues to confuse me.

    Mt 13:17 - For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

    Mt 23:3 - That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

    Mt 23:29 - Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

    I wait too for an answer to my other question:

    How could the saints who died before Jesus lived ever be saved? How then can all Israel be saved?

    The passages you gave confuse me about how Paul views "justification." I find it easier to grasp what Jesus said about who are justified. I think it's rather simple.

    Luke 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
    11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
    12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
    13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
    14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
     
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