1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured THE MYSTERY REVEALED TO PAUL

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Doug, Mar 23, 2020.

  1. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,330
    Likes Received:
    289
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The twelve apostles did not preach the gospel of grace that Paul does.

    It can be seen from Peter in Acts 2 what was being preached:

    Acts 2:14 Peter is speaking to Jews and Gentile proselytes who are devout to the God of Israel see Acts 2:5 Acts 2:10 Acts 2:22

    Acts 2:17 Peter says this is a fulfillment of prophecy for Israel in Joel in the last days before the day of the Lord.

    Acts 2:30 Peter is saying that Jesus was raised from the dead, not for our justification as Paul writes in Romans 4:25, but rather to sit on the throne of David in his millennial kingdom on earth (Luke 1:32-33).

    Acts 2:38 Peter tells them they must repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sins.
    Peter and the apostles preached only the name of Jesus (John 20:31), and baptism in his name, for the remission of sins, not the redemption of Christ in his death for our sins and resurrection for our justification, and faith in his blood for remission of sins (Romans 3:24-25).
     
  2. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,330
    Likes Received:
    289
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Yes, you are right
     
  3. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,330
    Likes Received:
    289
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Jesus and the twelve preached only the name of Jesus. Israel had to believe in the name of Jesus that he was Christ, Son of God, nothing of the redemption by the cross (John 20:31 John 3:18).
     
  4. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,330
    Likes Received:
    289
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    That God is love is true, that is not the gospel.

    I gave you the gospel before but here it is again, Paul tells us what the gospel is in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
    We are not saved by placing our faith in his love, but God tells us our faith is in the redemption of Christ and his blood.
    (Click on the verses to read)

    1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

    15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

    15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

    We are all sinners who can not save ourselves.
    See Romans 3:23 Titus 3:5 Romans 5:6

    Christ died for our sins; He was our substitute, He paid the full penalty and debt for our sin by his blood sacrifice.
    See 2 Corinthians 5:21 Romans 3:24 Romans 3:25 Romans 3:26

    He was buried.

    He rose again for our justification ( to declare us righteous) and forgiveness of all our sin. He gives us His righteousness and eternal life.
    See Romans 4:25 Ephesians 1:7 Romans 4:22 Romans 4:23 Romans 4:24 1 Corinthians 1:30

    All we have to do is believe the gospel.
    See Romans 4:5 1 Corinthians 1:21 Ephesians 1:13

    Believing is being persuaded that something is true.
    See Romans 4:21

    The moment you believe you have eternal life.
    Titus 1:1 Titus 1:2 Titus 3:7

    Trust the gospel of your salvation. Believe in Jesus Christ to have provided payment for your sins and to give you eternal life. Place your faith in Jesus Christ, in his blood, his death and his resurrection.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
    Paul Christensen and Giuliano like this.
  5. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,205
    Likes Received:
    1,958
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Hello @Giulianno,

    I have been trying to get online all day, and this is the first time I have made it. I acknowledge your questions, and will come back to answer when I can, but can't stay online now.

    Thank you
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Giuliano likes this.
  6. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,048
    Likes Received:
    3,701
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Thanks for trying to explain your position to me; but I think we're going in circles and you won't convince me because it looks to me as if you are saying Paul contradicts Jesus. I don't think I could believe both could be right if they are contradicting each other. But thanks for trying.
     
  7. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,048
    Likes Received:
    3,701
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    No hurry. Take all the time you need.
     
  8. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,109
    Likes Received:
    998
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    My intention is giving the most simple, baseline gospel that gets a person away from hell and into heaven is not to open it for debate. So I don't care whether Peter and the Apostles preached a different version of the gospel than Paul.
    The basic gospel is that we are all sinners who have broken all the Ten Commandments and if we came before God in the judgment we would be found guilty and sentenced to God's prison without parole. But God has provided a way in which He can legally set the sinner free. He sent His Son Jesus to die on the cross to take the penalty for our sinfulness on Himself so God can forgive us and set us free from the guilt and penalty of sin. But we must put our trust in Christ as a person jumping from an airplane has to actually put on the parachute and trust it to get him down safely. As soon as we say "yes" to Jesus in an attitude of trust in Him, we pass instantly from death to life.

    Is this not the gospel that the Apostles and Paul preached? What other gospel is there?

    If you were witnessing to an unsaved person and told them what you told me in your post, would you be leading them to trust in Christ for their salvation or would you be just muddying the waters and confusing them?
     
  9. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,109
    Likes Received:
    998
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    I like Ray Comfort's approach to unsaved people. He puts the same thing in very simple and clear terms, and I have seen the videos of those he speaks to being convinced of the truth of the gospel. Watching the videos showed me that we use too much religious jargon and complicated terminology that tends to go over the heads or ordinary people. Putting the gospel in very simple terms as Ray does, is very effective, and his videos show it admirably.
     
  10. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,109
    Likes Received:
    998
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    If you were talking to an unsaved 18 year old, how would that convince him or her to repent of their sin and put their trust in Jesus as their Saviour?
     
  11. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,205
    Likes Received:
    1,958
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    @Paul Christensen
    @Doug
    Re: replies #63,#68,#69,#70

    Hello there,

    It is good to remember that the truth concerning The Mystery, revealed by Paul in his letters written following the revelation of God concerning it, in Ephesians, Philippians and Colossians particularly, was written to BELIEVERS, and not to the unsaved. It is not a message of salvation, (i.e., the gospel) but the truth concerning the Church which is the Body of Christ.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2020
  12. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,109
    Likes Received:
    998
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    I get that. But what I see is a confusion as to what the gospel of Christ really is. So my question in post #20 is for someone to say what gospel would they share with an unsaved 18 yr old.
     
  13. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,205
    Likes Received:
    1,958
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Hello @Giuliano,

    The first four questions concerning God's imputation of righteousness to those who put their trust in the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord, can be found in such passages as Romans 6, and related passages. It is all a matter of the reckoning of faith, by God and by the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Questions 5 and 6, can be answered with the words, 'by faith'. See Hebrews 11, and the list of those who believed God during the days of the Old Testament Scriptures, like Abraham, to whom faith was reckoned to for righteousness. The same will be the case for Israel in that day when all will be saved. It is all of faith. Faith in the sacrificial work of Christ, who took our sin upon Himself, and died in our place, that we may have the righteous of God in Him.

    I have not got the time, or even the ability to explain these things in my own words, only the word of God prayerfully considered can impress itself upon your heart and mind and answer these questions truthfully. It is not my understanding that you need, but God's, Giuliano.

    I can do no more.
    Thank you
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
  14. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,048
    Likes Received:
    3,701
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I am disappointed that you did not give me clearer answers.
     
  15. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,205
    Likes Received:
    1,958
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Forgive me @Giuliano, but my mind is tired, and I can't concentrate today, I gave what I could, and directed you to the Word of God, which alone can give the answers to the questions you asked.

    Thank you
    Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
    Chris
     
  16. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,048
    Likes Received:
    3,701
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    It is okay, really. I think I already have the answers I need. I was just curious about your views.
     
  17. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,330
    Likes Received:
    289
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The last thing i will say is that I see what you are saying, there are contradictions. The contradictions arise by our failure to determine who Jesus was ministering to. Jesus said he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel (Matthew 15:24). Jesus came preaching law keeping to Israel to be righteous in order to enter into the kingdom on earth (Matthew 19:17 Matthew 5:19). We are not in this dispensation now, the gospel of the kingdom has been postponed. We are not under the law and covenants of Israel, we are under grace as revealed by Jesus to Paul.
     
  18. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,330
    Likes Received:
    289
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Yes, that is the gospel that saves, and it came from what Christ has revealed to us through Paul.
    In saying that the apostles preached a version of this is not so and people muddy the waters by mixing it all together.
     
  19. Doug

    Doug Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,330
    Likes Received:
    289
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    We are all sinners and can not save ourselves from the wrath of God. Jesus died for our sins, to pay the penalty of our sin, and rose from the dead to give us eternal life. All we have to do is believe that and believe Christ has done all we need to be right with God and go to heaven.
     
  20. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,109
    Likes Received:
    998
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    What I am saying is that the Apostles didn't preach a different gospel than Paul. It depends on the particular group of listeners. A missionary to Papua New Guinea native ex-headhunters, is not going to word the gospel in the same way as someone street-preaching on a New York street.
     
Loading...