The Mystery Revealed

[bbyrd009]

Being decieved implies first having had true knowledge or a true relationship.

i disagree, seems to me that one could easily be deceived w/o those?

 

[bbyrd009]

Are you sure he didn't gain something?

yes, pretty sure he did

 

[bbyrd009]

We tend to associate the word to confession of sins.

i would just consider the definition in context with one's def of "profess," yes. Many "professions" in Scripture have been translated into "confessions."

 

[GodsGrace]

i would just consider the definition in context with one's def of "profess," yes. Many "professions" in Scripture have been translated into "confessions."

Oh. Yes I remember now.
Confess
Profess
The pros and cons.
See, I remembered!

 

[bbyrd009]

Adam lost His relationship with God
With others (Eve -- hardship in life)
With himself (he hid from God - shame)
With nature (nature became an adversary)
He lost eternal life (literally) I should say immortality.

He lost everything God had gifted to him.
Known as preternatural gifts.

but he also gained, in that he became conscious of good and evil

 

[GodsGrace]

yes, pretty sure he did

What did he gain?

 

[bbyrd009]

What did he gain?

free will, knowledge, a forebrain, pick your model

 

[Dcopymope]

free will, knowledge, a forebrain, pick your model

He had free will to start with, God wouldn't have wasted his time even telling him to do "this or that" if he didn't. Gnostic's are the ones who will claim he didn't have free will, because they believe that Adam and Eve were held prisoner in the garden, by God, who they see as evil, and cruel, the deity that believes himself to be God, you see.

 

[bbyrd009]

He had free will to start with, God wouldn't have wasted his time even telling him to do "this or that" if he didn't. Gnostic's are the ones who will claim he didn't have free will, because they believe that Adam and Eve were held prisoner in the garden, by God, who they see as evil, and cruel, the deity that believes himself to be God, you see.

ok, well then we can just stick with "the knowledge of good and evil" in that model i guess, and leave "free will" alone if you like

but either way, this knowledge has implications, "choice" was introduced between "good" and "evil," right? Free will is just a term that derives from that, i guess? i don't have quite the literal understanding to process God literally telling them anything, or the Garden being somewhere one could even be "held prisoner" in, so not sure how i might reply to a Gnostic there

 

[soul man]

ok, well then we can just stick with "the knowledge of good and evil" in that model i guess, and leave "free will" alone if you like

but either way, this knowledge has implications, "choice" was introduced between "good" and "evil," right? Free will is just a term that derives from that, i guess? i don't have quite the literal understanding to process God literally telling them anything, or the Garden being somewhere one could even be "held prisoner" in, so not sure how i might reply to a Gnostic there

The knowledge of good and evil is one knowledge, though two knowledgs exist.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Are you sure he didn't gain something?

There is nothing that adam gained that we should be proud off.

Yes he gained a practical experience of the kn owledge of 'good and evil' together with a bias towatds evil.

 

[soul man]

There is nothing that adam gained that we should be proud off.

Yes he gained a practical experience of the kn owledge of 'good and evil' together with a bias towatds evil.

Yes that's true, but evil is not sin, the scripture says God created evil.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Yes that's true, but evil is not sin, the scripture says God created evil.

Evil is the abscence of good.
It is like cold which is also an abscence. It is not something that can exists on its own but is always a negative.

 

[ScottA]

Ephesians 1:1-3
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

At one time the born again were separated from God by their nature.
" who were dead in trespasses and sins"

You know it was not sins that separated you from God, it wasn't trespasses that separated you from God.
It was that one sin of Adam that caused man to be separated from God.
It was the death you recieved from Adam that separated you from God.
It was not the life God had intended for humanity, but it was a spirit-life regardless, death life had began.

And this new spirit-death-life is what mankind has been plagued with from the beginning.
Man through the centuries has tried to quiet the ills of this death.
Laws of the lands have been written, with rules instituted for living a kind of productive life.
Nations founded to try to live at peace, all to no avail.
God Himself having given commandments and laws to keep fallen man from destroying itself.
All the while knowing it would take a new life all together to bring a certain people together, Romans 16:25

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

God Himself held the secret to putting mankind back on course to his original plan, Ephesians 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

You see our Gospel doesn't start with a fall in a garden, or even with an angel being thrown out of heaven, or even with the cross, our Gospel starts before the foundation of the world.
Before anything was created God had hid in Himself that He would be a Father to those that He would create, by taking a part of Himself, Christ, and placing His creation in Christ one day. Everything that has happened since creation, is God working his purpose into all of creation to bring about this glorious Plan before the foundations of the world.

No-Man knew that God was going to birth His own children, other than Jesus when He walked this Earth. It was not revealed in the Old Testament.
It was not prophesied, prophets did not speak about it, no one knew according to our scripture that God was going to bring about a people with His life and nature, to be called His children.
We find where there is a coming Messiah, you can find where there will be a virgin birth, and government's shall be upon his shoulders, and there will be a cross, but no where will you find where God spoke this mystery of Christ in you anywhere in the Old Testament.
And this mystery according to the scriptures has been given to you and I to give to a lost world that lives a life of death and separation from God who created them in his very own image and likeness, Ephesians 3:2-5
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

You have jumbled it a bit, like a song sung that is not quite remembered. But you are close, and that is good.

As for the mystery not being in the old testament, it is there, for God does not do anything unless He reveals it first. When God renamed Jacob and called him Israel, it was a foreshadowing of those born again of the spirit of God, those who come out of Egypt, which spiritually is the world:

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

 

[GodsGrace]

but he also gained, in that he became conscious of good and evil

That's a gain????????

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes that's true, but evil is not sin, the scripture says God created evil.

God did not create evil.

Is God good or evil?

Here we go again.
What God are people worshipping?

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes that's true, but evil is not sin, the scripture says God created evil.

Evil is not sin?
Find out about the sin nature?

 

[GodsGrace]

free will, knowledge, a forebrain, pick your model

Wasn't worth it.

 

[bbyrd009]

That's a gain????????

ha well guess it depends who you ask huh, are children a blessing or a curse, is "i wish i had never been born" a reflection of truth, or appearances lol. Making gods is hard, i guess.

So really our perception of whether there was a gain or not is irrelevant, it becomes about "ok, so what you gonna do now?" imo

 

[bbyrd009]

Wasn't worth it.

ha but you are not being consulted for that i guess, lol.

also, that perspective is a sign?