The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever
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You talk of a tower, and boasting. Paul saying his behaviour was holy, pure and blameless. In your view this is boasting, but Paul is declaring a real example to follow.
Declaring to follow Jesus is not a boast, it is part of the word Christian. The early followers were called people of the way. All through scripture the path of morality sings.
The disconnect is between the heart reality and the aims. Faith, opening to Jesus makes this possible. I have lived my life on this, so I know how and why it works. My heart was cold, untrusting, unable to hurt, distant. But now I am open, sharing and rejoicing through it all, knowing pain is swallowed in His grace, hardship defended by His support, evil intent blunted by God's acceptance.
So you say I have nice words, like there is something else as well. But that is me, that is Christ and His work. Depression, suicidal thoughts, disappointments, failure, rejection have also been there, but now are passed.
We were sinners capable of the worst crimes, but in Christ we are new creations to the praise of His glory, amen
A mindset apart, never to meet.
A mother gets food for there child to go to school. One mum loves their child and wants them to know support and care, and remembers the hard times they had.
Another resents they have to do this for their brat, but that's what others do.
Who can see the difference? Both do the same action for different reasons.
All we can do in Christ is share our hearts and motivation, whether told liar or encourager, it is still our heart to reach those who will listen. And to you folk, amen, the Lord is with you, walk on in love.
I wonder at this phrase "trying to earn it"
A loving heart searches for ways to express and encourage others, its fruit is the result of the desire to bring something nice to another.
A bitter heart knows its own bitterness but is aware this is not acceptable, so learns how to hide this sore with the show of being nice.
Who can see the heart but you can feel the difference, in the overflow, in the unguarded moments, in the unscripted responses.
Jesus called this thorns and thistles.
Now those with thorns and thistles have a problem. Either their own awareness shows them they are on the wrong side of eternity, or all are actually like this, and only liars and fakers pretend they are nice.
I was shocked by a phrase told to me about having some people round for a nice tea and cakes. They said it was "like cockroaches gathering to share or demolish one another". Now I knew some of the people, and certainly this was the farthest from the reality of what was happening. But to the speaker this is all they saw and projected.
Now I will never be anything more than a cockroach to some, but I know them too well, and I know their thoughts and motivations. If God thought we are cockroaches who will be redeemed or transformed at the last trumpet, He would not have come and spent 3 years with the disciples. Sin corrupts the world with cynicism and pessimism, so everything is betrayal, hurt and disappointment, so anything in Jesus must also be fake, a firework in the sky, brilliant but just a show. This is why for me Jesus is more than a firework, but a blazing light, a reality deeper and stronger than anything else we will ever come across, because He is God, the creator of all things. He is the light of the world, our hearts desire, the beacon that lights the way, the healing of all our hurts and the peace that passes understanding.
So I understand those who hear my words pour the world scorn on me, Amen, so they should. For only in Christ will the light shine through. And it is this that brings light to my soul, and to anyone who plugs into Him. Amen, Praise the Lord.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
What do you and @Eternally Grateful believe Grace is? Unmerited favor, or something liberal like that? So you believe in Universalism? That is Jesus died for the sins of the world, so everyone, no matter what they do or believe, are saved. That is the result of a misinterpretation of Grace.
Personally, I can think of at least one thing you MUST do to even receive the prerequisite to the path of salvation. And, then again, it must be the true definition, not the liberal definition of the world.
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There was a time, when my dad was on all about this perfection. Id be skyping him and he would sit back look at his desktop and say.Aggh look at that perfect" No dad its not its a desktop its far from perfect.
Than there was a day, im trying to explain grace to Him, Hes driving down the road, I look and say, hey dad your going over the speed limit, should of seeing His face, got all upset, because HE " broke the law". oh no. Do you know the difference between law and grace?? It is one or the other, The law demands perfection, grace is for the imperfect. So if it not grace it is the law. Grace would of said, thats ok, try again not to next time, the law says. thats it prison you are no good.
So which is it you are under. And I dont think you have ant idea of what Gods grace is, if not for His grace none would be saved, and by your standard that you and a few others have set, you are doing the same thing, condemning mankind for being imperfect.
In Catholicism, “confess” refers to the Sacrament of Reconciliation, which allows the sinner to be forgiven for the sins he confesses (admits to committing) to the priest. A scripture that refers to this is 1John 1:9 -
“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
The priest can forgive sins through the power of Jesus Christ, who instituted the Sacrament of Reconciliation in John 20:21-23 - "Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.'"
To “repent” means to turn to God and obey His commandments. Sin is disobeying any of God’s commandments, so to “repent” of sin is to stop sinning and start obeying His commandments. Therefore repentance involves changing one’s behaviour - from sinning to not sinning. If you continue to be a slave to sin, there is no repentance.
Repentance leads to “sanctification”, which means to be “holy” and “righteous”. So repentance, sanctification, holiness and righteousness all depend on obeying God’s commandments. Jesus said, “If you love me, you will obey my commandments” (John 14:14). The “saints” are described in Rev 14:12 as “those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus” (see also Rev 12:17).
Once Saved Always Saved is a nonsense doctrine. For starters, we are saved only after we die and are judged by Christ and granted eternal life in Heaven. No one is "saved" in this life - this life is a test, and the test doesn't finish until we die. In this life we are on the road to salvation - hopefully.
Whatever. Faith without works is dead - ie, no works, no salvation.
A man is justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24) - ie, no works, no salvation.
“Strive for … the holiness without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12:14) - ie, no works, no salvation.
Please explain what "good works" are.
If a believer is tempted to sin, is it "natural" to give into temptation and sin? Or is it "natural" to say No to temptation and not sin?
Why does Rev 3:4 say those who are "worthy" ended up in Heaven?
Why does Jesus say seven times in Rev 2 and 3 that "those who overcome" will be saved? What did they "overcome" in order to be "worthy" of salvation?
If salvation is a gift, why do believers have to "overcome" something to be "worthy" of salvation?
P.S. I like your posts.
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Somehow, EG twists obeying God's commandments (aka "holiness") into "boasting" and "earning your salvation". I still don't know what he means by "earning your salvation".
I know how you feel - EG's theology is quite bizarre and confusing, not to mention irrational at times.
It is nonsense to claim to "know" that you are saved. Believing you are saved means nothing. After you die, you will be judged just like everyone else, and Jesus the Judge won't give a hoot about what you think.
Can you prove that you are "saved"? Of course not, so your claim to "know" that you are saved is just hot air, not to mention totally irrelevant and meaningless.
A legalist is someone who believes a set of rules and following them defines morality or personal worth. Though it has real value, clearly if one's heart has no love, its value is wasted.
What anti-legalists believe in failing one point means you have failed them all. Clearly if perfection is the goal ie no failure, then this is true. Self justification is flawed as Paul says, God justifies faith in Him, not obedience to the law. What is missed is God is a legalist with a heart, a way through, a true overcomer.
The law is a sign post of failure and need of correction but not justification. Free grace says the law is dead beyond showing failure, because Jesus brings forgiveness of all sin, future as well, so obedience does not reflect rebellion to God or approval.
What is toxic is their hatred of moralists. They will use phrases like worse than a murderer, should be expelled from fellowships etc. They hold being a moralist is unbelief in the forgiveness of the cross, so anti-christ. It creates these binary discussions, with such hard hearted judgemental outcomes.
The extreme position is conviction of sin is evil, even if the action is sinful because the believer is forgiven. To me this is insane social poison, removing guilt and ownership of choice. It is a sinners charter, and those of faith who abuse should be defended and upheld as examples to follow.
Forums that follow this morality allow abuse of contributors because they oppose "faith" positions even when the defender is an abusive social contributor where truth does not matter. Such folk feel entitled to claim victimisation while making others real victims of antagonism.
If one knows this enemy, keeping calm is fine. Anti moralists are lawless, and without morals do not know the Lord.
Jesus was a moralist, but empowered morality with love through the cross and the Holy Spirit in a repentant life.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
I believe we have a dichotomy today which is this. In days past, we lived with a strict way of life that honored God and the other brethren. Some today reckon that was no more than a bunch of thou shalt not and was pharisaical and legalistic and it stifled our walk with the Lord. I grew up with this and did not find it a problem because society in those days had respect for those in authority over us and we considered the older brethren knew more than what we did.
Today we have swung round to a different way of doing things inasmuch that we seem to be left to our own devices and working out what is deemed right or wrong so the preaching is more about what we say or do to attract people into the church rather than preaching which kept people out of the church unless they were serious about their faith.
I read recently that the church is not the place for unbelievers. It is for God's frozen chew to be taught and built up and sent out. I do believe that preaching to the unconverted which the NTC did not do in their meeting together makes it easy to dilute the truth and produce people who think they are saved when they are not.
Bread of Life putting us all right again. It must be lovely to be perfect.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
You people and you refusal to understand anything
EG says if you are obeying God to maintain your salvation, you preach a different gospel, because your obeying out of selfish intentions, to earn something
EG says if you Are obeying God because he has saved you and made you a new creature And has loved you to overflowing empowering you to love others, you are bearing fruit, and will be rewarded.
Now stop trying to tell everyone what EG believes, because you are wrong
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