The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[FollowHim]

A singing heart

A poster once told me I could not believe the creeds, I was just parroting them, brain washed. Now they could have been right. Or rather my heart sang in agreement to the truths, sang.

The question was not my singing but their doubt. In their walk, hypocrisy, pretending,, trying to know the form of the walk but not its power had broken in. So the words for them were empty shells, as they had lost their faith, and farce is all they heard. I know this emotional reality, I have seen it to, unbelievers speaking words of power and grace but no heart.

I would suggest to such as these a walk of discovery of their own heart and where they actually stand and who Jesus is to them. Only here will a song arise. And in the Lord I say this is our eternal song, literally, eternal. God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

I dont think believers believe Jesus is fake and fact I dont think many have actually found Him, seems all that knocking on doors is not enough. Be though perfect as I am perfect. ye would love to see the perfect christian when they stand before God and they find out how in-perfect they are, Funny things wit hall my time with Christ HE never demanded perfection of me, neither did God, in fact it was Him that taught me, David loved God and wasnt perfect, yet He said that David was a man after Gods own heart. The best one can do is point one to Christ, if they choose another way that is there problem.

You are right, perfect to God is different than perfect to us.

When you say God has never demanded perfect from you, I am confused. God does not demand, He shows we must be cleansed, purified and holy, perfect.
Evil deeds are not part of our walk, or acceptable sin. So of what are you talking? Or am I wrong?

 

[mjrhealth]

You are right, perfect to God is different than perfect to us.

When you say God has never demanded perfect from you, I am confused. God does not demand, He shows we must be cleansed, purified and holy, perfect.
Evil deeds are not part of our walk, or acceptable sin. So of what are you talking? Or am I wrong?

God has never demanded anything of any one, all HE asked was us to believe it is enough for Him. it is enough for Love and God is love and Love doesnt make demands of anyone, if it did it wouldnt be love

Oh an by the way our righteousness is in Christ we have none of our own, that bit about, in a twinkling of an eye we will all be changed, hasnt happened yet.

 

[FollowHim]

God has never demanded anything of any one, all HE asked was us to believe it is enough for Him. it is enough for Love and God is love and Love doesnt make demands of anyone, if it did it wouldnt be love

Oh an by the way our righteousness is in Christ we have none of our own, that bit about, in a twinkling of an eye we will all be changed, hasnt happened yet.

Sounds like you are a free grace follower.

You declared faith in the ultimate righteousness transformation. I now believe this is a pipe dream and leads many to think they know Jesus and it's all fine, when the opposite is true.

Another aspect is some are perfect and do not know it. Which is ironic. Nothing needs to change, they are so self depricating to even see the work Jesus has done is too hard.

My wife says she hates kids, except she loves and cares for those in her charge without fault. So her words do not match her actions. Kids are a burden, too much for her, but she does deeply love them. Jewels do not see their value, which makes them jewels.
God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

I notice often a question like what is perfect gets dismissed as impossible to answer.

But we cannot know Jesus and not know the answer is Jesus.

 

[FollowHim]

On a walk which step is perfect, the next one.

 

[mjrhealth]

Sounds like you are a free grace follower.

You declared faith in the ultimate righteousness transformation. I now believe this is a pipe dream and leads many to think they know Jesus and it's all fine, when the opposite is true.

Another aspect is some are perfect and do not know it. Which is ironic. Nothing needs to change, they are so self depricating to even see the work Jesus has done is too hard.

My wife says she hates kids, except she loves and cares for those in her charge without fault. So her words do not match her actions. Kids are a burden, too much for her, but she does deeply love them. Jewels do not see their value, which makes them jewels.
God bless you

Why are you paying for yours, did you miss this bit,

Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Funny all those who claim perfection seem to ignore the free gift and end up trying to earn it, was it not you who spoke of how easily we are deceived

And if the work that Christ has done is finished what part are you improving on, what part can you do better than Him,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Again, you are accusing me of things I'm not even doing. Pretty soon you are going to sin against me so many time you'll even call me a liar. What is it going to take for you to know and accept the Truth??? Yes, I want to go to heaven to be with my King. Who wouldn't want to be there? I don't keep the commandments of Jesus because I have to, but because my new nature cannot do anything but keep them. To not keep them would be against my nature. Like, I could no more abuse an animal than I could a child. Is it because I strive to grudgingly? Or do I because I love to care for animals and children? Do you honestly believe I care for animals just to go to dog heaven??? That was a joke. I hope you will stop telling me I love animals to earn my way to heaven. Oy vey! You're the one striving, I'm not.

You claim you must endure to the end to be saved
You claim you are running the race to earn your reward
You claim that all the things o wrote concerning my salvation are rewards not gifts.

I asked you multiple times how you can say those things and not think your trying to earn salvation

you refuse to answer

I am done, you proved my point for me

good day

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I dont think believers believe Jesus is fake and fact I dont think many have actually found Him, seems all that knocking on doors is not enough. Be though perfect as I am perfect. ye would love to see the perfect christian when they stand before God and they find out how in-perfect they are, Funny things wit hall my time with Christ HE never demanded perfection of me, neither did God, in fact it was Him that taught me, David loved God and wasnt perfect, yet He said that David was a man after Gods own heart. The best one can do is point one to Christ, if they choose another way that is there problem.

Amen

as for followHim just study his words, you will see where he stands.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why are you paying for yours, did you miss this bit,

Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Funny all those who claim perfection seem to ignore the free gift and end up trying to earn it, was it not you who spoke of how easily we are deceived

And if the work that Christ has done is finished what part are you improving on, what part can you do better than Him,

Yep you got it, it’s not hard to see

good luck, maybe you will do what others have failed to do will pray for you

 

[FollowHim]

Why are you paying for yours, did you miss this bit,

Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Funny all those who claim perfection seem to ignore the free gift and end up trying to earn it, was it not you who spoke of how easily we are deceived

And if the work that Christ has done is finished what part are you improving on, what part can you do better than Him,

There is only an emotional reality within our hearts which tells whether you are trying to earn something or express something.
On the surface it can look the same, and even words can be used by both parties while doing the opposite.

I had a conversation once with a south korean pastor with regards to a gift of love being given because you love an individual or because you feel you need to do this because it is appropriate. One is the expression of the heart, while the other is playing a role.

Add to this the complexity of distraction and stress, one can forget something, upset someone else and not mean it, so apologise or actually mean it but cover it up with apologies.

Paul faced this with people preaching out of jealousy for his position and others out of love for Christ. His answer was praise the Lord, Christ is being preached. And this is my position.

If one is following the Lord, Amen. In time these essentials will become clear.
And again I note you have not defined perfection. A perfect altar is one made from natural stones, uncut by human hands.

25 If you make an altar of stones for me, do not build it with dressed stones, for you will defile it if you use a tool on it.
Exodus 20:25

Those who do not love perfection refuse to define it other than put it out of their grasp. Paul said we should own perfection, have it as our goal, be there in the front of our minds, because in this is Jesus and His way.

11 Aim for perfection, listen to my appeal, be of one mind, live in peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you.
2 Cor 13:11

The bible translators did not like the word perfect, instead used the word mature. So many self depricate, they refuse to accept the term perfect in Christ, but will claim mature in Christ, though also saying, sinning in Christ. And their sin is kept quiet. So it could be irritation, a wrong thought, or adultery, murder, theft, envy, gluttony, avarice, hatred, bitterness which is truly sin and a problem. Some claim their sins are minor, but when spoken, it is clear at a basic emotional forgiving, loving, peaceful existence, they have not begun to know the walk of Jesus or forgiving another brother or sister in Christ for their error. I know a brother who held hurts like this for years, and took revenge. Later in life he denied Jesus, but that was not a surprise to me.

One member talked about when repairing houses in his work, if he hit his thumb and swore was that sin, and if sin, lost his salvation etc.
He had not even begun to ask what is walking like Jesus, having the Holy Spirit fill you day and night, praise from your heart rise up wherever you are. If he wanted to know how Jesus felt and where his heart was, he should ask Jesus in the moment, and he will know the answer. Ow is enough, the pain is truly bad, but to presume God should defend us from such things is not wise.

Until the word fills ones mind and heart and soul, these things are just minor irritations that mean nothing, and everything is just ok. But then to the world everyone is going to heaven and it is all sweetness and light. God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

Amen

as for followHim just study his words, you will see where he stands.

I would hope my words do declare where I stand, and it is with following Jesus.
There is a simple layered set of priorities. Jesus is Lord, He reigns on High, His will is our will, His ways our ways, His heart our heart.

Anything that contradicts Gods will and ways are not of Him, any excuse for sin or being bound in sin, is not acceptable.
God does not compromise. Not because He could choose to do so, it is who He is, the ultimate reality.

People have created the delusion we rest sheltered in Christ, that our sinful behaviour is hidden, covered in the cross, like a blanket, still there and active just not seen. But God is clear, He see all and judges all. We will have to account for every word, every action before Him.
The only previso, is if we repent, accept His ways and path, walk it and stay there, will He forget and forgive the evil we have done.

21 But if a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die.
22 None of the offenses he has committed will be remembered against him. Because of the righteous things he has done, he will live.
Ezek 18:21-22

Cause turns away from all the sins, keeps Gods decrees, does what is just and right. Effect offenses not remembered against him.

31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel?
Ezek 18:31

Expel the wicked man from among you
1 Cor 5:13

9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God?
1 Cor 6:9

19 Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness
2 Tim 2:19

6 No one repents of his wickedness, saying, "What have I done?" Each pursues his own course like a horse charging into battle.
Jer 8:6

12 The righteous man, if he sins, will not be allowed to live because of his former righteousness.
Eze 33:12

The lie is sin in Christ has no effect, God has changed, grace rules, and we can remain sinners, because in Christ sinners will now be made into saints on the last day, at the resurrection.

But this makes a farce of we are a new creation, slaving to righteousness, putting to death sin and the lusts of the flesh. If one claims God has done something new, where are he verses that sin is not death and destruction? There are not any because it is a lie. And these liars burn with anger and hatred, you can literally see it in their eyes. But thanks be to God in Him we have safety.

8 Keep me as the apple of your eye; hide me in the shadow of your wings
9 from the wicked who assail me, from my mortal enemies who surround me.
10 They close up their callous hearts, and their mouths speak with arrogance.
Psalm 17:8-10

Now if anyone can say they do not love this God, this pure, uncompromising King and His heart, they are not in the Kingdom.
And because of that everything that flows from them will decry the things of God and His ways, like a wolf wanting to eat innocent trusting lambs who see the form of godliness but not its betrayal.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Depends, I never accepted Christ for any rewards I accepted Him because I believe Him, Yes HE may have offered me things, But we follow Him because of who He is or its all about us. Pat on back, you are such a good person.

Exactly. I was responding to someone else.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You claim you must endure to the end to be saved
You claim you are running the race to earn your reward
You claim that all the things o wrote concerning my salvation are rewards not gifts.

I asked you multiple times how you can say those things and not think your trying to earn salvation

you refuse to answer

I am done, you proved my point for me

good day

What you think I'm saying is all in your head. You believe a lie about me, and I am innocent. You could have said, "oh, I understand now." But if putting people down is your game, happy shooting.

For one thing, I said we must endure to the end against the belief of OSAS in the licentious way people take it to mean.

I said running to the race to be saved, against the doctrine of when committing sins of the flesh, one just loses rewards.

Rewards vs. gifts, I agree. Our salvation is a gift.

 

[FollowHim]

What you think I'm saying is all in your head. You believe a lie about me, and I am innocent. You could have said, "oh, I understand now." But if putting people down is your game, happy shooting.

I think the empathy gene is missing. It is I tell you the truth, accept it or I leave. They keep on doing a lot of leaving, lol.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I think the empathy gene is missing. It is I tell you the truth, accept it or I leave. They keep on doing a lot of leaving, lol.

It is the putting words in my mouth that you can't correct in their thinking that I find the most frustrating.

 

[FollowHim]

It is the putting words in my mouth that you can't correct in their thinking that I find the most frustrating.

For me this is the point of danger. It is fine to guess another's thoughts but nuts to say you are right. Empathy with people you know well, means you can predict their words before they say it. When you predict incorrectly it is just creating a lie or invention. To then claim ones invention is true is so obviously wrong.

When I first shared I was told I was lying. Now I expect this from sinners but not believers because it is such a denial of who we are. It is like a body blow, but they are so indoctrinated they have accepted hell if they are wrong.

I met Muslims like this, there loyalty was so deep. But if they stand on a lie surely truth matters more. But not these folk. God bless you

In their minds if we are liars and decievers why would they respect anything we offer. I find this saddest of all, just following Jesus makes me evil. How lost is that?

In all honesty I accept people's sharing until I see the reality. These folk prefer their view before one speaks, which demonstrates a closed heart.

 

[mjrhealth]

In their minds if we are liars and decievers why would they respect anything we offer. I find this saddest of all, just following Jesus makes me evil. How lost is that?

It isnt the following Jesus part they are questioning, but on that part I quiet agree, seems that is one thing where are not allowed to do, as is "have Faith in God".

 

[mjrhealth]

The lie is sin in Christ has no effect, God has changed, grace rules, and we can remain sinners, because in Christ sinners will now be made into saints on the last day, at the resurrection.

Iit is you who is denying grace, it is by Grace we are saved, grace doesnt make one perfect, it was given for the imperfect, like us.

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

if one is perfect than one has no need of grace. If Gods grace was to end than it would no longer be grace. As I said, when we all stand before God all those "perfect" Christians will find out how Imeperfect they are ,and that they too, still need His grace as much as the rest of us.

 

[FollowHim]

Iit is you who is denying grace, it is by Grace we are saved, grace doesnt make one perfect, it was given for the imperfect, like us.

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

if one is perfect than one has no need of grace. If Gods grace was to end than it would no longer be grace. As I said, when we all stand before God all those "perfect" Christians will find out how Imperfect they are ,and that they too, still need His grace as much as the rest of us.

Let us get to the point here. Jesus is clear, to enter heaven we must be changed. Now the gnostic view is the spirit is perfect, the flesh is evil, so remove the flesh, and you are perfect. Another version of this is stasis, we are kept as we are until the zap. A third alternative is we are changed through Gods word changing us. Grace covers the failures and transformation, the work of discipleship but it is founded on faith and commitment to walk the way of Jesus.

I know trying to be good without a heart is impossible. But God uses faith in Him as His anchor of transformation. This window is very thin, very special, very real. I cannot argue with you, or convince you of His way. If He has born you of the Spirit, then we are one in heart and truth. If not then we pass each other. I have learnt the hard way, there is no deeper reality than eternity and the world.

What has always spoken to me in the hearts of those who have come to Jesus is love and repentance. Everything flows from this, no where else. All the folks who have stood against righteous walking, following Jesus in word and truth, have no heart of love, are closed down and speak belief and how only self righteous provers of worth obey Jesus but are just hypocrites and liars.

But the truth is if we love people, we do not wish evil and wickedness, but desire for the bottom of our hearts to know Jesus and His ways. That is what speaks to me about those I talk to. Jesus's words in out hearts is the truth that grows through our lives. And that is it. I have no boundaries because Jesus is God, He uses what He desires and speaks in His way to His people. So who are you and where is your heart?
I know EG wants his agenda, and told me what I was and what I did not know. All I can say I am not part of his world or his future. And he consistently denied love of Jesus at the deepest levels that stirs my heart. I am happy to be a fool for Christ, because He is Lord of All, Amen
It is a wonder to me, how blind people are to the simple truth of forgiveness, and Mary at the tomb saying "Rabonni"

On that last day, is our word to our Lord "Rabonni" or an insult.

One fellow decided to tell me their failure was getting angry. As if this is unresolvable. The lost are lost because they have no hope or faith because they have not met Jesus. He changes everything.