The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
That is what seperates us
your hoping you attain the righteousness you think is required to be saved, thus your faith lies squarely on yourself meeting those requirements
I know I have failed and will never again that requirement, so my faith is totally on God keeping his promises
in your Gospel you boast
in My gospel I am unable to boast because it is not of my works, but of Gods Grace where he saved me by the washing and renewal of the HS
My friend, I told you before, its all about our hearts and where we build from in our lives.
If you do not understand, it is because you build your life from a different place.
Jesus talked of blindness, and it is a real thing. If what I have shared makes you wonder where it came from I cannot help you.
These are about the realities of the heart and where is our passion in Christ and in life.
You believe you are acceptable to Jesus as you stand, and everything else is just done by Him.
It is a faith, and many obviously hold this view.
But in truth, I cannot accept that is the way, because Jesus tells me follow. And in following we are changed.
The reason why this emphasis grows in us, because it is true in our lives. The words could imply something else, which you clearly feel they do. And that is the beauty of Jesus, we choose and inherit the fruit of our walks. It is also why I condemn no one, I can just share the reality and light in which I walk. But then the aggression of people who walk in grace is enough to make us wonder do they know the risen Christ and His way at all. God bless you
The reality is when people change basic theological terms, and then claim they hold a position which the language does not support it is not possible to have a proper dialogue.
So words like "refuse to understand" are actually meaningless.
The difference is all about sin and our walk. Many have used to the example of a murderer. A person comes to faith, then goes and murders someone without regret or repentance. They are not saved, they are lost.
Another group say they are saved because of prior faith and relationship with God, or as some like to say, once a son always a son.
One can discuss morality and Gods holiness in this regard, but it is quite simple these different perspectives.
Now the reasons someone is saved though in rebellion and unbelief is from the concept of forgiveness of sin, past, present and future.
Once one enters into heaven one cannot fall from heaven. I would suggest these ideas come from a desire to compensate for insecurity and trying to justify oneself as worthy of salvation, rather than living out the salvation already entered into.
So you can enter into a discussion about ascetism, and its value. To put it correctly, if you reduce life to a minimum, no talking, simple work and interactions, one can be 100% righteous, and yet be living a dream.
And the point of this all is not to live in love because you qualify for something, but because love is life and the flow of ones desire and truth in everything one is. Jesus implied this actually only happens if we abide in Him, His words in our hearts and minds constantly. I am not sure if we can really ever know how this works, it is just the reality of being in Him. God bless you.
So words like "refuse to understand" are actually meaningless.
The difference is all about sin and our walk. Many have used to the example of a murderer. A person comes to faith, then goes and murders someone without regret or repentance. They are not saved, they are lost.
Another group say they are saved because of prior faith and relationship with God, or as some like to say, once a son always a son.
One can discuss morality and Gods holiness in this regard, but it is quite simple these different perspectives.
Now the reasons someone is saved though in rebellion and unbelief is from the concept of forgiveness of sin, past, present and future.
Once one enters into heaven one cannot fall from heaven. I would suggest these ideas come from a desire to compensate for insecurity and trying to justify oneself as worthy of salvation, rather than living out the salvation already entered into.
So you can enter into a discussion about ascetism, and its value. To put it correctly, if you reduce life to a minimum, no talking, simple work and interactions, one can be 100% righteous, and yet be living a dream.
And the point of this all is not to live in love because you qualify for something, but because love is life and the flow of ones desire and truth in everything one is. Jesus implied this actually only happens if we abide in Him, His words in our hearts and minds constantly. I am not sure if we can really ever know how this works, it is just the reality of being in Him. God bless you.
3 For Zion will be the center for moral instruction; the LORD will issue edicts from Jerusalem.
4 He will judge disputes between nations; he will settle cases for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nations will not take up the sword against other nations, and they will no longer train for war.
Isa 2:3-4
God is a moralist, it is part of His creation, we are built to obey and honour the love that lives in our hearts.
So basic is this morality, people hate using the murderer example of moral failure, because their view of moral compromise or sin is minor issues that bring minor moral condemnation. But this minor failure is used to justify being lawless, free from any rules, order or morality before God.
So people want to be seen not as reprobates when they sin and refuse to repent, but claim they are better than folk who desire to walk righteously like Jesus, because at least they are not liars or fakers. Jesus's answer to believers who fall into sin, is confession and repentance. But without honest cleansing and purification, sins are left to fester build and destroy any life they have in Christ.
But so hard hearted they become they do not notice they are slowly killing all the good in their lives.
4 He will judge disputes between nations; he will settle cases for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nations will not take up the sword against other nations, and they will no longer train for war.
Isa 2:3-4
God is a moralist, it is part of His creation, we are built to obey and honour the love that lives in our hearts.
So basic is this morality, people hate using the murderer example of moral failure, because their view of moral compromise or sin is minor issues that bring minor moral condemnation. But this minor failure is used to justify being lawless, free from any rules, order or morality before God.
So people want to be seen not as reprobates when they sin and refuse to repent, but claim they are better than folk who desire to walk righteously like Jesus, because at least they are not liars or fakers. Jesus's answer to believers who fall into sin, is confession and repentance. But without honest cleansing and purification, sins are left to fester build and destroy any life they have in Christ.
But so hard hearted they become they do not notice they are slowly killing all the good in their lives.
"God promised we could never fail, because it is based on him not us, so yes, when you claim someone can fall you deny the promises. And put the onus on salvation on yourself not God"
Above is a phrase from people who hold a particular theological view.
Where did God promise we could never fail?
God promised His sheep could not be snatched out of His hand, but time and again indicated the sheep could get lost of their own choice, and literally never be found. But the claim is once a sheep, to say you could be lost, is to deny God and His promises.
The ironic idea here is ludicrous. If salvation is all on God, fatalism, then we are not involved in either being saved or lost, because His people can never be lost, so no worries, and if you are not His people you can never become such. So salvation is a free relationship dependent on both parties, which is why Jesus called it impossible, but not for God.
6 Go instead to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matt 10:6
4 “Which one of you, if he has a hundred sheep and loses one of them, would not leave the ninety-nine in the open pasture and go look for the one that is lost until he finds it?
5 Then when he has found it, he places it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
6 Returning home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, telling them, ‘Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost.’
7 I tell you, in the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need to repent.
Luke 15:4-7
Above is a phrase from people who hold a particular theological view.
Where did God promise we could never fail?
God promised His sheep could not be snatched out of His hand, but time and again indicated the sheep could get lost of their own choice, and literally never be found. But the claim is once a sheep, to say you could be lost, is to deny God and His promises.
The ironic idea here is ludicrous. If salvation is all on God, fatalism, then we are not involved in either being saved or lost, because His people can never be lost, so no worries, and if you are not His people you can never become such. So salvation is a free relationship dependent on both parties, which is why Jesus called it impossible, but not for God.
6 Go instead to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matt 10:6
4 “Which one of you, if he has a hundred sheep and loses one of them, would not leave the ninety-nine in the open pasture and go look for the one that is lost until he finds it?
5 Then when he has found it, he places it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
6 Returning home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, telling them, ‘Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost.’
7 I tell you, in the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need to repent.
Luke 15:4-7
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I'm sure @Eternally Grateful loves this, but I see it as just sad. That isn't God's grace at all. So you can sin and grace covers it? Is that God's perfect will for you - to still sin? Is that why Jesus died? So you can keep sinning under the curse of Adam? Is that the freedom in Him, freedom to sin? Don't you know that is the sin of the Nicolaitans that God HATES?
The law came because of transgressions until Christ came. Galatians 3:19. And you believe Jesus took away the law so they can sin without punishment. That is sick. At least your father had the fear of the Lord.
Old Covenant vs. New Covenant
You: Law vs. Lawlessness
Me: Law vs. the Power of the Holy Spirit to be holy
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CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I do too, that He gave me the power to be holy. No striving here. And it isn't for rewards as you keep lying about me.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
That's the joy of the power of the Spirit. I won't fail, because HE WON'T.
What happens if you murder someone? Do you have to repent, or will you still be saved?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
What happens if you fail to work hard and murder someone, will you still be saved?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
So he gave you the power and your not striving, then why do you think you can fall away?
That seems contradictory does it not? Is it Gods power your yours?
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
We still have free will. I choose to walk in the Spirit given to me, and keep cultivating the fruit of the Spirit. I enjoy the life of a Christian.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
It is so much easier to walk in the Spirit, than it is to go back under the flesh and sin. It would be against my new nature.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
And what did you prove? You proved you have misunderstood me from the beginning, and believe I'm under the law. I'm free from the law, because I'm free from sin - the reason for the law in the first place.
Your grace is unmerited favor - weak.
The Spirit of Grace is strong and enables me to be free from sin.
Grace isn't a coverup of sin - it is the Spirit of God allowing us to partake of the divine nature of Christ. How can you be like Christ and still sin. Is that becoming like Christ? NO!!! He didn't sin and has given us His Spirit to be like Him. JUST LIKE HIM. He was the first of many brethren - holy. Romans 8:29. Not only freedom from sin, but His power from the gifts of the Spirit.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
You can, if you just show me how your not trying to earn salvation as a reward.
I have yet to see any proof
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
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