The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[mjrhealth]

One fellow decided to tell me their failure was getting angry. As if this is unresolvable. The lost are lost because they have no hope or faith because they have not met Jesus. He changes everything.

Met Christ HE changed my Life, being to heaven even received my testimony from God in my"imperfect" state, why because" faith" i believe and Christ is Righteous and perfect. It is what pleases God "Faith"..

You keep making it about you, it is all about Him who is perfect.

 

[RogerDC]

I was on another Christian forum and for the first 6 months was great. Then I started to get hostile responses. One post was like
"where in the bible does it say this or this or this or this" and went on and on about all these Catholic doctrines that aren't biblical

So I asked why she had brought up all these things as none of them were being discussed. I just received more hostile responses
She said it was because of my avatar picture of Jesus Sacred Heart and cursed it. I didn't even know it was a Catholic thing.

I started to realize that when I had changed my avatar to the Sacred Heart was when people changed their tune
I began a thread to find out and it was true. That was discrimination, that was hate, and there is no excuse for it

That’s a funny story! Reminds me of those horror movies in which a vampire is exposed to a crucifix - vampire freaks out and curses and screams and froths at the mouth.

U really think that Catholic schools train students in debating Protestants. Again, u guys aren't that big.

Some non-Catholics have very odd ideas about what goes on in the Catholic Church. I was brought up Catholic and attended Catholic schools for twelve years; I’m 60 now and I’ve never heard of any Catholic program anywhere that teaches Catholics how to debate Protestants. And I can’t recall ever hearing any Catholic teacher or member of the clergy even mentioning Protestants, let alone teaching how to debate them. The number of Catholics who bother to debate Protestants at all is very, very small.

Where was the photo in your avatar taken? Not in Darwin or Townsville, I would say! I’m in Forster, NSW.

 

[RogerDC]

We are not saved ‘by faith’ but by Jesus Christ and His perfect righteousness and saving work for us. Saving faith trusts in Him and Him alone.

Why does James say a believer is justifed by faith AND works (James 2:24)? What are "works"?

Why does Paul warn believers that their sins can result in them ending up in hell (Gal 5, 1Cor 6)? (Here's a hint:. Faith alone is not enough to be saved)

What is "saving faith"? I can't find that term in my Bible.

btw, you never did answer my question, ...”How many good works must you perform until you are saved?”

In order to try and answer your question, you first need to explain what you mean by"good works".

If you saved by "saving faith", how much "saving faith" do you need to be saved?

 

[Cristo Rei]

That’s a funny story! Reminds me of those horror movies in which a vampire is exposed to a crucifix - vampire freaks out and curses and screams and froths at the mouth.Some non-Catholics have very odd ideas about what goes on in the Catholic Church. I was brought up Catholic and attended Catholic schools for twelve years; I’m 60 now and I’ve never heard of any Catholic program anywhere that teaches Catholics how to debate Protestants. And I can’t recall ever hearing any Catholic teacher or member of the clergy even mentioning Protestants, let alone teaching how to debate them. The number of Catholics who bother to debate Protestants at all is very, very small.

Where was the photo in your avatar taken? Not in Darwin or Townsville, I would say! I’m in Forster, NSW.

Hi @RogerDC nice to meet u...
My avatar... Im at Mt Hotham. U can see the chairlift and snow in the back ground.
Which is why im rugged up in that jacket and geared up with the helmet and goggles. Im from Melbourne

I never heard of Forster and so I went to google earth... It looks wonderful...
I dream about escaping the madness of this concrete jungle to settle near a quite little town where i feel closer to God
The south east coast around Merimbula would be ideal, still close enough to the snow in the winter for me

Ye i got a bit flustered trying to explain that my Catholic school didn't teach us such things cos it was the second time after he had kind of rejected my first attempt at explaining it... It's exactly how u said it, the word Protestant never broke the air at my school.

I remember learning that there are other religions like Islam, Buddha, etc. To kind of teach us to respect other cultures but nothing was ever mentioned about any schisms in Christianity.

Where i was born and raised was an area where the European immigrants, like my parents, settled. I went to a Catholic high school that was surrounded by public schools. The train station was an ethnic melting pot of European and middle eastern flavour. Thats when i learnt that Muslim people existed. We were teens and it was before 9/11 so there was never any tension over religion ever.

I think the Catholic vs Protestant thing isn't that big in Australia. The Anglican church is the second largest (still don't know if their Protestant)
But Catholicism has a much bigger congregation. A lot of new churches came out of America, im not sure if that has anything to do with it

 

[prism]

Why does James say a believer is justifed by faith AND works (James 2:24)? What are "works"?

His whole example is showing that for humans, faith can only be known by manifested works. Abraham first believed God and was justified by God who knows his heart. Years later, his faith grew to such an extent that his actions caught up with his faith in being willing to sacrifice his son.

Why does Paul warn believers that their sins can result in them ending up in hell (Gal 5, 1Cor 6)? (Here's a hint:. Faith alone is not enough to be saved

Read further...
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

"What is saving faith"? I can't find that term in my Bible.

Read 1Cor 15:1-4 ...
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (KJV) Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

In order to try and answer your question, you first need to explain what you mean by"good works".
If you saved by "saving faith", how much "saving faith" do you need to be saved?

Good works would be anything a man trusts in order to win favor with God outside of faith in His Son.
Now, how many good works must you perform until you are saved?

Technically we are not saved 'by' faith, but rather we are saved 'by' Jesus Christ and faith trusts in that.
Or we are saved 'by' grace 'through' faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[FollowHim]

Met Christ HE changed my Life, being to heaven even received my testimony from God in my"imperfect" state, why because" faith" i believe and Christ is Righteous and perfect. It is what pleases God "Faith"..

You keep making it about you, it is all about Him who is perfect.

Faith in what?
Christ changed your life. Sounds like as I said love and the ways of Jesus are not key to your walk, and our hearts have not met.

When views and experiences differ this much it's best to agree we are different. You claim I am talking about me, who I am in Christ, but that is the point, if we are still lost sinners we only have judgement ahead. That is scripture.

For me meeting Jesus created a humble and contrite heart. It is a theme repeated in many a believer. But not for you. God bless you.

 

[FollowHim]

Met Christ HE changed my Life, being to heaven even received my testimony from God in my"imperfect" state, why because" faith" i believe and Christ is Righteous and perfect. It is what pleases God "Faith"..

You keep making it about you, it is all about Him who is perfect.

I am shocked by this response. I know three individuals who have been to heaven except it's different.

Clearly visions are not a reliable foundation. And if holiness is not part of the picture, scripture must be wrong. But to realise a delusion would be hard. But unfortunately that's where I have to go. God bless you.

 

[mjrhealth]

I am shocked by this response. I know three individuals who have been to heaven except it's different.

Clearly visions are not a reliable foundation. And if holiness is not part of the picture, scripture must be wrong. But to realise a delusion would be hard. But unfortunately that's where I have to go. God bless you.

Who said Holines is not part of the picture, are we speaking of your or His, is it the work you are doing or the work He has done, are we speaking of your righteousness or His. There are a lot of lost "christians" out there claiming this and that, read the bible so i am this and I am that. Seems that tour poor friend would never be good enough since he had to rely on grace.

2Co_12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
So ill trust Him, HE started this HE will finish it, and when we stand before HIm HE alone will get the Glory and the Honor.

Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

seems there was only one ever found worthy, and it was not one of us.

 

[mjrhealth]

I am shocked by this response. I know three individuals who have been to heaven except it's different.

Clearly visions are not a reliable foundation. And if holiness is not part of the picture, scripture must be wrong. But to realise a delusion would be hard. But unfortunately that's where I have to go. God bless you.

I guess thats why so few have faith in God.

 

[mjrhealth]

Sounds like as I said love and the ways of Jesus are not key to your walk, and our hearts have not met.

Hmm Love seems you sound Like our friend DNB looking for the spiritual christian he cant find because what he is looking for doesnt exist. Shocked, as you said yourself God sees all, nothing hidden, that pride terrrible thing, we love to boast.

 

[FollowHim]

Hmm Love seems you sound Like our friend DNB looking for the spiritual christian he cant find because what he is looking for doesnt exist. Shocked, as you said yourself God sees all, nothing hidden, that pride terrrible thing, we love to boast.

Holiness is in God's people, it is the witness of the cross. If one's response to God is just you are great, and that is enough, like a celebrity party for the King, all are saved, just throw a party and heaven can begin.

But God expects purity in His people, without which they are rejected. Maybe Paul's statement about the impure not in the Kingdom missed you. Porn addiction is destroying people, yet it's not an issue. Anxiousness is so rife, permanent sedation only brings stability. Addiction to drugs cannot be stopped, it is not that bad just creating psychotic paranoid people everywhere. Gender change is fine, except these same folk often are mentally ill. This is a lost world, shattered lives in need of real love and stability. That is salt of the earth. God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

I thought of something. Conviction of sin, seeing Jesus, hearing ones broken heart is hard through the noise of sedation and addiction. How many betrayals does it take to harden a heart so it stops listening?
How many violent sexual encounters does it take before lust and hurt rule everything?

 

[mjrhealth]

But God expects purity in His people, without which they are rejected. Maybe Paul's statement about the impure not in the Kingdom missed you. Porn addiction is destroying people, yet it's not an issue. Anxiousness is so rife, permanent sedation only brings stability. Addiction to drugs cannot be stopped, it is not that bad just creating psychotic paranoid people everywhere. Gender change is fine, except these same folk often are mentally ill. This is a lost world, shattered lives in need of real love and stability. That is salt of the earth. God bless you

Holiness, or perfection cant have one without the other, did you ever find the perfect disciple that proclaimed as you have. After all these years, except for the SDA and claiming there goodnes by the law, Ii finally found 3 that claim sinless perfection. Id love to see that. So where did this come from God or reading the bible. Any use the bible to claim many things hence the huge discussion on what it is. Yet I see so many "christians" come to Christ only to find out by the perfectionist that they are not good enough for them and many walk away. God has never demanded anything of man, yet men keep on adding demands to men.

Joh_13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
after all that time walking with Christ they all fell short, argued bickered disagreed, yet they where enough for Christ.

God will save whom He will save, and if God determines one righteous, even if he does not fit our idea of a righteousness man, who are we to dispute with God.

 

[mjrhealth]

I thought of something. Conviction of sin, seeing Jesus, hearing ones broken heart is hard through the noise of sedation and addiction. How many betrayals does it take to harden a heart so it stops listening?
How many violent sexual encounters does it take before lust and hurt rule everything?

Conviction of Sin

Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

interested to know where all that came from, is that how you make men feel guilty???

 

[FollowHim]

Holiness, or perfection cant have one without the other, did you ever find the perfect disciple that proclaimed as you have. After all these years, except for the SDA and claiming there goodnes by the law, Ii finally found 3 that claim sinless perfection. Id love to see that. So where did this come from God or reading the bible. Any use the bible to claim many things hence the huge discussion on what it is. Yet I see so many "christians" come to Christ only to find out by the perfectionist that they are not good enough for them and many walk away. God has never demanded anything of man, yet men keep on adding demands to men.

Joh_13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
after all that time walking with Christ they all fell short, argued bickered disagreed, yet they where enough for Christ.

God will save whom He will save, and if God determines one righteous, even if he does not fit our idea of a righteousness man, who are we to dispute with God.

I wish we could agree. Clearly your heart is elsewhere. Purity is about our walk, our aspiration. But not for you. Your criticism is where are these perfect folk. This is the same as sinners sneering at Jesus, save yourself from the cross if you are a King.

The answer is the opposite, see the sick in need of a healer. You obviously neither see the sick or desire healing. Jesus talked of the blind, who could not see. If one cannot see I cannot show what is obvious. I pray God may open your eyes to were sin leads and how slavery binds the sinner with no release. God bless you

 

[mjrhealth]

I wish we could agree. Clearly your heart is elsewhere. Purity is about our walk, our aspiration. But not for you. Your criticism is where are these perfect folk. This is the same as sinners sneering at Jesus, save yourself from the cross if you are a King.

The answer is the opposite, see the sick in need of a healer. You obviously neither see the sick or desire healing. Jesus talked of the blind, who could not see. If one cannot see I cannot show what is obvious. I pray God may open your eyes to were sin leads and how slavery binds the sinner with no release. God bless you

My heart else where why because I dont fit "your " standard, no one ever will, you speak of love than turn God into an evil demanding God just like all the rest. So is this your standard we speak of, or I read the bible so I am right " standard, its funny how so many people who dont meet your standard have being with God and Christ and will go to God and be loved by them anyway,

And you will soon discover that no even you will meet the standard you have set yourself.

"Look at me God I am not like all these other sinners" not even Christ made that claim a man without Sin.

 

[FollowHim]

My heart else where why because I dont fit "your " standard, no one ever will, you speak of love than turn God into an evil demanding God just like all the rest. So is this your standard we speak of, or I read the bible so I am right " standard, its funny how so many people who dont meet your standard have being with God and Christ and will go to God and be loved by them anyway,

And you will soon discover that no even you will meet the standard you have set yourself.

"Look at me God I am not like all these other sinners" not even Christ made that claim a man without Sin.

Thank you for this response.
I am not speaking of a standard, but that is all you see. I suppose condemnation is your burden and not mine, my burden is laid down at the foot of the cross. That is what God's people experience, not of themselves but a gift of grace as a result of repentance God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

Conviction of Sin

Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

interested to know where all that came from, is that how you make men feel guilty???

Paul spoke of the gospel being death to the condemned but life to the saved.
Jesus and the cross is a door to His walk, His purity, His life in us, the redeemed, the transformed. So many true lost evil people come to Jesus know this reality.

Nice church folk who spent their lives in church, only know their OCD condemnation and failure, internal struggles, stuck at the gate and never being true to sin or righteousness, just sitting on a fence. To them both realities are wrong, but easy believism makes things ok, no guilt, no change, just carry on.

So what I share of heart reality is tough, but a lot better than staying on the fence, because there is no fence in heaven, and basking in God's light but never entering in is being lost.

 

[FollowHim]

I see my parents, children of believers but never coming to faith. They felt the life, knew the power in others but never themselves. They loved church, but never understood it.

It is being an observer of the light, feeling it's warmth but unable to create it in themselves. Our emotions and aspirations need heros, need form and purpose, traction and direction, a fight to win, a cause to uphold. This is life we know, but for the lost, it just blows around without focus, twinkling then going away. In Christ we have it all, Amen

 

[mjrhealth]

I suppose condemnation is your burden and not mine,

It is too those who see you sitting on your high tower and wondering why they are not as god as you, And yet you sit here talking about the cross. Something to do with passed from death to life, the cross no longer before as all I see is Christ. Our lives end there at the cross and like a good shepherd Christ leads His sheep on that narrow path that few have traveled, yet never does He beat them over a head with a stick never does he demand anything of them all He asks is they believe, because with Faith God can do anything, but men love to boast seeing it far to often on christian forums. I would still like to know how you came to your conclusion, all I hear is nice words.