The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[BreadOfLife]

Why don’t Catholics remit sins like the Apostles did in Acts 2:38, but rather use a man in a black box to remit them?
Oh, and the vail between the priest and the sinner in the black box is supposed to represent the priest of the OT coming to the Holy of Holies?
The priest then represents Christ?
Super creepy.

And this is precisely the ignorance that I'm talking about . . .

The "veil"?? What veil?? Do you even understand WHY s confessional has the option to either go face-to-face OR behind a screen??
Time for a history lesson . . .

In the Early Church confessions were PUBLIC - and EVERYBODY heard your sins. As time went on, the Church, in her wisdom and guided by the Holy Spirit realized that people would be more forthcoming confessions weren't public. People tend to be eore honest if they don't have to look into somebody's face when they confess. That's why people confess to each other more easily on the phone or letter or via social media, Einstein.

If has absolutely ZERO to do with the "Holy of Holies" . . .
Good grief - do your homework . . .

 

[amadeus]

I was raised Catholic and did catechism, told my sins to the priest, said the rosary etc.
I know quite a bit about it too.

Then surely you saw some good while you were there. Have you seen no evil in Oneness? I was in Oneness Jesus Only for 11 years with 3 different groups including the UPC [United Pentecostal Church]. I saw perhaps as many identifiably evil things among them as ever I did among the Catholics when I was ah active Catholic. Even if you have a very good set of doctrines as the standard or goal for your church, there will be... and likely are always some who miss God completely. When it comes down to it, what is in the heart of the individual is what God is watching. If your doctrines really are better then God will expect more than He would with someone whose doctrines fell short:

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

 

[BreadOfLife]

No; he was specifically talking about the lack of a priest's ability to be able to procreate and raise a family...
Why don't we ask him...

None of these entities you mentioned deny them sex.
The RCC unscripturally denies their priests to have sex.

Don't tell me they forced you into sexless misery too!

No - he is obsessed with sex - not family . . .

 

[Truther]

Then surely you saw some good while you were there. Have you seen no evil in Oneness? I was in Oneness Jesus Only for 11 years with 3 different groups including the UPC [United Pentecostal Church]. I saw perhaps as many identifiably evil things among them as ever I did among the Catholics when I was ah active Catholic. Even if you have a very good set of doctrines as the standard or goal for your church, there will be... and likely are always some who miss God completely. When it comes down to it, what is in the heart of the individual is what God is watching. If your doctrines really are better then God will expect more than He would with someone whose doctrines fell short:

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

The difference in the oneness and Protestants is that we get the baptism of the Holy Ghost(heart change).

Those that are not led of the Spirit are led of the works of the flesh.

This means, since RCC priests do not have the baptism of the Holy Ghost, they have to fight the battle with carnal means, giving place to the flesh.
They may seem holy to you, but are far from holy because of no Holy Ghost baptism.

Protestants have a few carnal ones, but not all, unlike the RCC priests that are Spirit less.

 

[Truther]

And this is precisely the ignorance that I'm talking about . . .

The "veil"?? What veil?? Do you even understand WHY s confessional has the option to either go face-to-face OR behind a screen??
Time for a history lesson . . .

In the Early Church confessions were PUBLIC - and EVERYBODY heard your sins. As time went on, the Church, in her wisdom and guided by the Holy Spirit realized that people would be more forthcoming confessions weren't public. People tend to be eore honest if they don't have to look into somebody's face when they confess. That's why people confess to each other more easily on the phone or letter or via social media, Einstein.

If has absolutely ZERO to do with the "Holy of Holies" . . .
Good grief - do your homework . . .

I saw the phony OT mock up in the RCC Church every Sunday.

The RCC priest imitated the OT priest in the tabernacle.

The service is based on the tabernacle in the wilderness.

What a silly dress rehearsal of unscriptural “Christianity”.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is proof positive that the wine Jesus made was ALCOHOL.

Eph 5:18, And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Pro 20:1, Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Pro 23:29, Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
Pro 23:30, They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
Pro 23:31, Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
Pro 23:32, At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
Pro 23:33, Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.
Pro 23:34, Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.
Pro 23:35, They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

Just thought I would bring up some scripture that discourages the drinking of alcohol; since the subject has been broached.

These scriptures also ought to tell you that Jesus was no drunkard; since He was without sin: but that rather He ate and drank with tax collectors and sinners in order that He might have an open door to minister to them as being the Great Physician.

No - he is obsessed with sex - not family . . .

You are being highly judgmental.

It is clear to me that @Truther's point has to do with the ability to have a family and not with sex per se.

The priest is miserable. He has tendencies that are like any other man. He is unscripturally neutered by his Pope.

He only wonders what family life must be. Poor man.

 

[Truther]

You were never "IN" it if you don't know why you were there.

You left because of ignorance - and nothing else.

I was in the RCC, just long enough to realize it is fake.
It is a mixture of Paganism, Judaism and Christianity.

 

[Truther]

THIS is the "MASSIVE rehabilitation system" you were talking about??
A single place where Priests can seek help for depression or emotional problems or alcohol abuse, etc??

What's so "Massive" about this??

Where do Protestant Pastors go when THEY need help in those areas.
Is it a "MASSIVE" system??

The RCC is a massive system with massive corruption.
It needs massive intervention programs to keep it from lawsuits.
They are smart.

 

[Truther]

Jesus made alcoholic wine - period.
This is evident by the story of the Wedding at Cana itself.

John 2:10 states, “Every man serves the good wine first; and when men have drunk freely, then the poor wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.”
This is proof positive that the wine Jesus made was ALCOHOL. People don't drink grape juice until they've "had their fill" and are unable to tell bad grape juice from good if they are completely sober.

In Luke 7:34, Jesus says, "The Son of Man has come eating and drinking; and you say, ‘Behold, a glutton and a drunkard’”
Another proof that Jesus DRANK alcohol or He wouldn't have referred to Himself as a "drunkard" in the eyes of the Pharisees.

The fact is that crushed grapes begin to ferment immediately affter the grapes are crushed. The chemical process that halts fermentation was only invented in the 1920's by the Welch's Company, in response to the law of Prohibition. This means that grape juice as a product has only been around for less than 100 years. Consequently, when wine is spoken of in Scripture – it is truly wine and not grape juice.

Hundreds of gallons of grape juice sitting in jars in the desert sun do not remain grape juice.
Put on your Thinking Cap, junior and use your common sense . . .

The RCC teaches Jesus got folks plastered drunk, then taught against the works of the flesh.
No wonder the RCC is okay with funky living.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The RCC teaches Jesus got folks plastered drunk, then taught against the works of the flesh.
No wonder the RCC is okay with funky living.

Another lie - what a surprise.

Now - what did Jesus make from water at the Wedding at Cana?

 

[Truther]

No - he is obsessed with sex - not family . . .

I guess since I married a Farrah Fawcett look alike, instead of letting some religious hierarchy tell me to let some other fella have her, I am guilty of enjoying the gift of God.
You betcha.
The priest shoulda read his Bible.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I was in the RCC, just long enough to realize it is fake.
It is a mixture of Paganism, Judaism and Christianity.

Please elaborate - IF you can . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

The entire quote:

None of these entities you mentioned deny them sex.
The RCC unscripturally denies their priests to have sex.
This is a radical, non Biblical idea with terrible consequences.
The RCC is finally feeling those consequences for being unscriptural.

The implication is that in denying priests the option of having sex with a wife; that this is the reason why their unbridled sexual desire is then directed towards children.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I guess since I married a Farrah Fawcett look alike, instead of letting some religious hierarchy tell me to let some other fella have her, I am guilty of enjoying the gift of God.
You betcha.

Thanks for proving my point
@justbyfaith - ummmm, are you reading this??

 

[justbyfaith]

Thanks for proving my point
@justbyfaith - ummmm, are you reading this??

See post #773 (The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever).

 

[BreadOfLife]

I saw the phony OT mock up in the RCC Church every Sunday.
The RCC priest imitated the OT priest in the tabernacle.
The service is based on the tabernacle in the wilderness.
What a silly dress rehearsal of unscriptural “Christianity”.

More ignorance.
Time for another BIBLE lesson . . .

The doctrines of the Church as they pertain to the Mass (Acts 2:46-47, 1 Cor. 10:16), the Eucharist (Matt. 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-25, Luke 22:19-20, John 6:29-71, 1 Cor. 11:27-30), Confession (Matt. 16:15, Matt. 18: 15-18, John 20:21-23, 2:Cor. 2:10, 5:18-20), Baptism (Ezk. 36:25-28, Acts 2:37-38, Acts 10:48, John 3:5, Mark 16:16, Eph. 4:5) and so on, are well-documented in the Bible as well as in the writings of the Early Church Fathers from the 1st century on.

The Book of Revelation is filled with similarities between Mass on earth and that of the heavenly liturgy. Here is a list of some of them:

Rev. 1:10 speaks of the heavenly liturgy being celebrated on the Lord's day. Catholics are obliged to attend mass on Sunday (the Lord’s Day).

Rev. 1:12, 2:5 speaks of lampstands or “Menorahs” in heaven. They are also used in the mass here on earth.

Rev. 1:13, 4:4, 6:11, 7:9, 15:6, 19:13-14 tells us about priests wearing special vestments in the heavenly liturgy. Here on earth, Catholic priests also wear liturgical vestments when celebrating Mass.

Rev. 2:5, 16, 21; 3:3; 16:11 speaks of a penitential rite going on in heaven – just like the in the Mass on earth.

Rev. 15:3-4 speaks of the “Gloria” being recited in heaven. You will hear this recited during the Mass on earth.

Rev. 4:4, 5:14; 11:16, 14:3, 19:4 mentions the presbuteros(oi) (priests) in heaven. On earth, the priest offers Jesus’ eternal and ongoing sacrifice during the Mass.

Rev. 5:8, 6:9-11, 8:3-4 speaks of the saints in heaven interceding on our behalf – just as they are petitioned in the Mass.

Rev. 4:8 speaks of heaven's un-ending hymn of praise to God, “Holy, Holy, Holy”. This very same prayer is recited in the Mass.

Rev. 2:17 speaks of manna in heaven that is given to the faithful. Likewise, during the Mass, we receive the true manna - the Eucharist.

Rev. 5:8, 8:3-4 speaks of incense being used in heaven which has been part of the celebration of the Mass from the beginning.

Rev. 6:9 tells us about the martyrs under the heavenly altar which is mirrored by the Church's tradition of having relics of saints under the altars of our churches on earth.

Rev. 5 speaks of the Lamb (describing Jesus). During the Mass, Jesus is described as the Lamb of God during the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

Rev. 8:3, 11:1, 14:18, 16:7 speaks of an altar being present in heaven – which illustrates that an eternal sacrifice is being offered. That sacrifice is the very same one being offered on the altar during the Mass.

Rev. 14:4 speaks of those who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They are celibate. In the same way, our celibate priests and religious here on earth follow the Lord.

Rev. 15:7, 16:1-4, 8, 10, 12, 17; 21:9 speaks of chalices (bowls) being used in the heavenly liturgy. Likewise, chalices are used to offer our Lord’s eternal sacrifice on earth during the Mass.

Rev. 17, 19:9 speaks of consuming the Lamb at the marriage celebration in Heaven. This is done at every single Mass on earth during Communion.

Rev. 19:1, 3, 4, 6 speaks of the “Alleluia” being recited in heaven. You will find this recited at every Mass here on earth.

Look - no matter WHAT your friends are telling you - ignorance is NOT bliss . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Eph 5:18, And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Pro 20:1, Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Pro 23:29, Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
Pro 23:30, They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
Pro 23:31, Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
Pro 23:32, At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
Pro 23:33, Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.
Pro 23:34, Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.
Pro 23:35, They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

Just thought I would bring up some scripture that discourages the drinking of alcohol; since the subject has been broached.

These scriptures also ought to tell you that Jesus was no drunkard; since He was without sin: but that rather He ate and drank with tax collectors and sinners in order that He might have an open door to minister to them as being the Great Physician.

WRONG again.

These verses discourage drunkenness - NOT drinking.
BIG difference.

Explain to me why Jesus referred to Himself as a "drunkard" (Matt. 11:19) in the eyes of the Pharisees if they did NOT see Him drinking alcohol.
Explain to me why Jesus made WINE at the Wedding at Cana if drinking alcohol is a sin.

You are being highly judgmental.

It is clear to me that @Truther's point has to do with the ability to have a family and not with sex per se.

No - I'm honest.
I don't play games with the truth like YOU and @Truther.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The entire quote:
The implication is that in denying priests the option of having sex with a wife; that this is the reason why their unbridled sexual desire is then directed towards children.

This is THE most ignorant thing you've said yet.

The small number of priests who engaged in child molestation already HAD ad this proclivity - and it has NOTHING to do with celibacy.
According to the American Psychiatric Association, the STEREOTYPICAL child molester is a MARRIED MAN in his 30's-50's.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The difference in the oneness and Protestants is that we get the baptism of the Holy Ghost(heart change).
Those that are not led of the Spirit are led of the works of the flesh.
This means, since RCC priests do not have the baptism of the Holy Ghost, they have to fight the battle with carnal means, giving place to the flesh.
They may seem holy to you, but are far from holy because of no Holy Ghost baptism.
Protestants have a few carnal ones, but not all, unlike the RCC priests that are Spirit less.

Funny thing is that, MY Bible says that only GOD knows the heart (1 Kings 8:39).
YOU don't - but you place your own soul in danger by judging the souls of others (Matt. 7:1-2). . .

 

[amadeus]

The difference in the oneness and Protestants is that we get the baptism of the Holy Ghost(heart change).

If you really think that only people believing your doctrines have received the Holy Ghost, you have been very sheltered, with your own shields in place. While I was still active in the UPC, the very first person I met with the gift of tongues who was not a member of my assembly was a Catholic. He worked where I did for the Social Security Administration and we gathered at lunch time daily for probably better than at year with other people from various church groups [denominations, if you will] to pray together. It was a wonderful thing. I know that that man knew God and follow the Spirit even though his only water baptism was performed by a Catholic priest.

His heart had been changed and he loved God, but he remained for all the time I knew him, a devoted practicing Catholic.

Those that are not led of the Spirit are led of the works of the flesh.

I believe this... but not every person baptized in the Holy Ghost follows the lead of the Spirit as they should. They can and do quench the Spirit which is why the Apostle Paul wrote this:

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

People who have received the gift of the Holy Ghost do quench the Spirit! They should not, but they do! This is certainly what is happening when a recipient of that the gift, goes ahead and sins.

This means, since RCC priests do not have the baptism of the Holy Ghost, they have to fight the battle with carnal means, giving place to the flesh.
They may seem holy to you, but are far from holy because of no Holy Ghost baptism.

You are presuming in accordance with your belief that only people who speak in an unknown tongues have received the gift of the Holy Ghost. This was one of the reasons that God brought me out of the UPC in 1987. He showed me then that I was wrong to believe that. He has reconfirmed that for me over the years.

Perhaps not every priest has the baptism of the Holy Ghost, but you take a lot upon yourself when you state categorically that no priest has it. Who are you my friend to pass judgment on people you do not personally know... or for that matter even on people you do know?

Just because you disagree with some or even many of their prescribed beliefs? Even if all of your churches doctrines are correct, you have not been given the authority to decide anyone else's place in God, much less their final judgment. I know you know some scripture. Don't you believe what it says?

"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?" Matt 7:1-4

Are you already an overcomer who has not a single mote in his own eye?

Hey I am not saying things to you anything that I don't also say to myself.

Protestants have a few carnal ones, but not all, unlike the RCC priests that are Spirit less.

And the Pentecostals, including the Oneness people, also have some of those who are without the Spirit in spite of their testimonies. Lots of people put on a façade to fit into the group they are with... This happens in every church of my experience which certainly includes Oneness Jesus Only ministers. Yes, they have some good, God fearing ministers among them, but do not presume that every minister in your group is always following the lead of the Holy Ghost. Following them blindly will result in both them and you being in a ditch.