The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[Truther]

If you really think that only people believing your doctrines have received the Holy Ghost, you have been very sheltered, with your own shields in place. While I was still active in the UPC, the very first person I met with the gift of tongues who was not a member of my assembly was a Catholic. He worked where I did for the Social Security Administration and we gathered at lunch time daily for probably better than at year with other people from various church groups [denominations, if you will] to pray together. It was a wonderful thing. I know that that man knew God and follow the Spirit even though his only water baptism was performed by a Catholic priest.

His heart had been changed and he loved God, but he remained for all the time I knew him, a devoted practicing Catholic.


I believe this... but not every person baptized in the Holy Ghost follows the lead of the Spirit as they should. They can and do quench the Spirit which is why the Apostle Paul wrote this:

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

People who have received the gift of the Holy Ghost do quench the Spirit! They should not, but they do! This is certainly what is happening when a recipient of that the gift, goes ahead and sins.


You are presuming in accordance with your belief that only people who speak in an unknown tongues have received the gift of the Holy Ghost. This was one of the reasons that God brought me out of the UPC in 1987. He showed me then that I was wrong to believe that. He has reconfirmed that for me over the years.

Perhaps not every priest has the baptism of the Holy Ghost, but you take a lot upon yourself when you state categorically that no priest has it. Who are you my friend to pass judgment on people you do not personally know... or for that matter even on people you do know?

Just because you disagree with some or even many of their prescribed beliefs? Even if all of your churches doctrines are correct, you have not been given the authority to decide anyone else's place in God, much less their final judgment. I know you know some scripture. Don't you believe what it says?

"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?" Matt 7:1-4

Are you already an overcomer who has not a single mote in his own eye?

Hey I am not saying things to you anything that I don't also say to myself.


And the Pentecostals, including the Oneness people, also have some of those who are without the Spirit in spite of their testimonies. Lots of people put on a façade to fit into the group they are with... This happens in every church of my experience which certainly includes Oneness Jesus Only ministers. Yes, they have some good, God fearing ministers among them, but do not presume that every minister in your group is always following the lead of the Holy Ghost. Following them blindly will result in both them and you being in a ditch.

The RCC does not insist on the baptism of the Holy Ghost or tongues.
I am glad some are receiving the Holy Ghost, but it is only to lead them to remission of sins and Acts 2:38 salvation.
Those Roman Catholics that do get their Holy Ghost are more prone to study their Bibles and come out of it.
The baptism of the Holy Ghost does not remit their sins though, so they are in a tough spot still.
I was RCC when the Holy Ghost led me out of it. I know firsthand

 

[Truther]

Funny thing is that, MY Bible says that only GOD knows the heart (1 Kings 8:39).
YOU don't - but you place your own soul in danger by judging the souls of others (Matt. 7:1-2). . .

Yes, God knows the wicked heart of man without the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
Agreed

 

[Truther]

More ignorance.
Time for another BIBLE lesson . . .

The doctrines of the Church as they pertain to the Mass (Acts 2:46-47, 1 Cor. 10:16), the Eucharist (Matt. 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-25, Luke 22:19-20, John 6:29-71, 1 Cor. 11:27-30), Confession (Matt. 16:15, Matt. 18: 15-18, John 20:21-23, 2:Cor. 2:10, 5:18-20), Baptism (Ezk. 36:25-28, Acts 2:37-38, Acts 10:48, John 3:5, Mark 16:16, Eph. 4:5) and so on, are well-documented in the Bible as well as in the writings of the Early Church Fathers from the 1st century on.

The Book of Revelation is filled with similarities between Mass on earth and that of the heavenly liturgy. Here is a list of some of them:

Rev. 1:10 speaks of the heavenly liturgy being celebrated on the Lord's day. Catholics are obliged to attend mass on Sunday (the Lord’s Day).

Rev. 1:12, 2:5 speaks of lampstands or “Menorahs” in heaven. They are also used in the mass here on earth.

Rev. 1:13, 4:4, 6:11, 7:9, 15:6, 19:13-14 tells us about priests wearing special vestments in the heavenly liturgy. Here on earth, Catholic priests also wear liturgical vestments when celebrating Mass.

Rev. 2:5, 16, 21; 3:3; 16:11 speaks of a penitential rite going on in heaven – just like the in the Mass on earth.

Rev. 15:3-4 speaks of the “Gloria” being recited in heaven. You will hear this recited during the Mass on earth.

Rev. 4:4, 5:14; 11:16, 14:3, 19:4 mentions the presbuteros(oi) (priests) in heaven. On earth, the priest offers Jesus’ eternal and ongoing sacrifice during the Mass.

Rev. 5:8, 6:9-11, 8:3-4 speaks of the saints in heaven interceding on our behalf – just as they are petitioned in the Mass.

Rev. 4:8 speaks of heaven's un-ending hymn of praise to God, “Holy, Holy, Holy”. This very same prayer is recited in the Mass.

Rev. 2:17 speaks of manna in heaven that is given to the faithful. Likewise, during the Mass, we receive the true manna - the Eucharist.

Rev. 5:8, 8:3-4 speaks of incense being used in heaven which has been part of the celebration of the Mass from the beginning.

Rev. 6:9 tells us about the martyrs under the heavenly altar which is mirrored by the Church's tradition of having relics of saints under the altars of our churches on earth.

Rev. 5 speaks of the Lamb (describing Jesus). During the Mass, Jesus is described as the Lamb of God during the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

Rev. 8:3, 11:1, 14:18, 16:7 speaks of an altar being present in heaven – which illustrates that an eternal sacrifice is being offered. That sacrifice is the very same one being offered on the altar during the Mass.

Rev. 14:4 speaks of those who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They are celibate. In the same way, our celibate priests and religious here on earth follow the Lord.

Rev. 15:7, 16:1-4, 8, 10, 12, 17; 21:9 speaks of chalices (bowls) being used in the heavenly liturgy. Likewise, chalices are used to offer our Lord’s eternal sacrifice on earth during the Mass.

Rev. 17, 19:9 speaks of consuming the Lamb at the marriage celebration in Heaven. This is done at every single Mass on earth during Communion.

Rev. 19:1, 3, 4, 6 speaks of the “Alleluia” being recited in heaven. You will find this recited at every Mass here on earth.

Look - no matter WHAT your friends are telling you - ignorance is NOT bliss . . .

Nope, the entire mass is a faux copy of the OT tabernacle service.
The add ons are Jesus relics and the statues.
There is no resemblance of a 1st century Christian service to a mass.
The mass is mass unscriptural imitation of Pagan origins.

 

[Truther]

Thanks for proving my point
@justbyfaith - ummmm, are you reading this??

Poor priests.

At least they have a cat to pet.

 

[Truther]

The entire quote:



The implication is that in denying priests the option of having sex with a wife; that this is the reason why their unbridled sexual desire is then directed towards children.

Bingo!
They have access to innocent minds to corrupt.
They have a never ending supply of religion based child toys to entertain their sexual desires with.
The parents think these men are holy like their Pope.

 

[Truther]

Please elaborate - IF you can . . .

Okay.
The RCC service has a Jesus theme, a tabernacle theme and pagan statues etc.

 

[justbyfaith]

WRONG again.

These verses discourage drunkenness - NOT drinking.

Usually, when someone drinks alcohol, the purpose is to get some kind of buzz (drunkenness).

If you are not drinking to get a buzz, drink something besides alcohol.

 

[RogerDC]

The problem is that when you read them in CONTEXT with the rest of Scripture - they don't fit your views.
Like I said - you can cherry-pick verses ALL day long to arrive at your perverted doctrines.

justbyfaith is an expert "cherry picker"! Any verses that don't fit his junk theology, he simply ignores or flat-denies or contradicts. And the verses he does use are usually amateurishly misinterpreted and taken out-of-context with the rest of Scripture.
​

 

[RogerDC]

Easy, Paul said "walk in the Spirit".
The RCC says "walk under the influence of spirits and tobacco".
This is because the RCC does not teach us to get the baptism of the Holy Ghost as per Acts 2.
They teach us that carnality is kosher.

Complete nonsense. You have no idea what you're talking about.
However, when it comes to hating God's one true Church, you are clearly an expert.

 

[RogerDC]

Open your eyes. The RCC has a massive rehabilitation system for priests.
Not one?

Does you church contain any sinners? Or are they all perfect and faultless?

What about you? If you are perfect and faultless, go ahead, keep throwing those stones.

 

[RogerDC]

The RCC teaches drinking and smoking is okay for walking in the Spirit.

Are you saying believers can't drink alcohol and/or smoke? Is so, which verse says that?

 

[RogerDC]

I teach walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

What happens if a believer does commit a sin of fulfilling the lust of the flesh?

 

[RogerDC]

salvation cannot be lost once it is truly gained.

That's true … we (hopefully) gain salvation after we die and are judged saved by Christ, who then grants us eternal life in Heaven. Once granted, that salvation can never be lost. Before that judgement we can say we are (hopefully) on the road to salvation.

 

[RogerDC]

And also, the following verses show clearly that once a man is truly saved, he will always be saved:

What is your definition of "truly saved"?

My understanding is that only Christ can judge who is 'truly saved"? Is your name Jesus Christ?

 

[RogerDC]

And you fail to understand yet again.

ALL of the verse you are presenting are bot guarantees that we WILL always be faithful. They are words of encouragement that we CAN be faithful - IF we would simply cooperate with God's grace at ALL times.

Unfortunately, as we are told in Scripture (1 John 1:8, Rom. 7:15-15, Gal. 2:11) - we stumble.
The fact that you refuse to see this speaks VOLUMES about your confusion.

It's usually a waste of time trying to reason with someone who doesn't read the Scriptures intelligently or even honestly.

 

[Illuminator]

The RCC does not insist on the baptism of the Holy Ghost or tongues.
I am glad some are receiving the Holy Ghost, but it is only to lead them to remission of sins and Acts 2:38 salvation.
Those Roman Catholics that do get their Holy Ghost are more prone to study their Bibles and come out of it.
The baptism of the Holy Ghost does not remit their sins though, so they are in a tough spot still.
I was RCC when the Holy Ghost led me out of it. I know firsthand

The CC (please refrain from "RCC", it's annoying as it is inaccurate) thinks imposing personal experiences on others is wrong. The Catholic Charismatic Renewal is over 50 years old, where gifts of the Spirit are manifest. It has the support of every Pope since it started in the '60's. The Holy Ghost has led more Protestants, including ministers and scholars, INTO the CC than you are aware of.
The Coming Home Network - Discover Catholicism, Come Home
It is the presence of Jesus that makes a church holy, not the leaders and not how many gifts they may have.
Catholics HEAR the written word of God in every liturgy.
Protestants STUDY the word of God and one means of using the word of God is not automatically inferior to the other.
Ex-Catholics who become anti-Catholics has nothing to do with the truth of Scripture, but with indoctrination.

 

[RogerDC]

Contrasting verses, and/or surrounding context never nullify the plain meaning of what you can exegete out of any singular verse.

This is a solid rule of biblical hermeneutics.

You wouldn't know - your theology is amateurish, hill-billy rubbish.

 

[RogerDC]

Judging by your posts - you know absolutely nothing about the Catholic faith.
EVERY single thing you've said so far has been wrong.

Hatred makes a man blind, ignorant and bigoted.

 

[RogerDC]

I was raised Catholic and did catechism, told my sins to the priest, said the rosary etc.
I know quite a bit about it too.

Sadly, some deceived ex-Catholics have unwittingly become voices of Satanic lies and doctrines of demons.

Once upon a time, I was anti-Catholic too, but then the Holy Spirit open my eyes to the truth and Satan's lies and I returned to my spiritual Mother and God's one true Church.

 

[mjrhealth]

God's one true Church,

Well you just put yourself in that, you have no idea of what you are saying box. Is God a murderer, according to you and your religion He is. and a whole bunch of other things im sure truther has let you know about.