The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[Taken]

NOTE: We are talking here about believers who have received the Holy Spirit.

Considering - Scripture is knowledge; and given for all to hear... The Born again, the Believers Not Born Again, and the Un-believing.

Because ONLY their old-past-former sins have been forgiven (2 Peter 1:9).

Past Sins OF WHO?
1) The Born Again? Yes.
2) The Believing? Yes.

AND ... WHAT Sins are they Forgiven?

1) OT "believing" men, WHO took their SIN Offering to the Temple (in Jerusalem) for slaughter, were Forgiven SIN they had Committed, that WAS A SIN, According to Mosaic Law.

2) NT "believing Tribe of Israel men" were doing the SAME, in the NT...UNTIL ...
(The Temple was Destroyed), as Jesus was being Crucified.

3) Everything Changed.
...Jesus came TO the Lost Jews.
...Jesus taught, He was the One the JEWS had been Waiting for.
...Jesus OFFERED HIS Pure Blood.
...Every single individual Jew (and Gentile),
Could Believe Jesus "OR NOT".

4) As in the Beginning, First came the Knowledge. Men discussed, handed down VERBALLY, generation to Generation, THEN began Writing and distributing the writings among the Tribes.
So also...when Jesus arrived, men...JEWS and Gentiles (Then living among one another), could freely go and Listen to Jesus' Doctrine.
And years Later the events of those days were Written and distributed among men around the world.

5) AS it is written; Jews required A SIGN...Greeks (Prominant Gentile's) of that day...required a philosophical (make WISE sense) of what was going on during Jesus's ministry days on Earth. ( 1 Cor 1: 23-23 )

6)
* JEWS..the Pharisees, were worried, (their cushy position) would come to naught, IF Jesus was the Real Deal.
* JEWS..the Common folks, SAW...Jesus' SIGNS/ POWER To HEAL...and Began BELIEVIING.
* Gentile...Leaders, did not Find Jesus (Philosophically a threat), Against them.
* Gentile's...the Common folks, (Some) were intrigued, rejected, believed, weren't sure.

POINT Being:
Understanding ALL Scripture IS TRUE...
However ALL Scripture Does NOT APPLY TO ALL "individuals".

Believing Is ONE thing.
Committing TO the Belief IS ANOTHER thing.

SOME OT men Believed and "Their" Commitment IS revealed BY, their obedience TO Mosaic Law.
That Continued on INTO the NT, that Specifically WAS First Being GIVEN TO the JEWS (not Gentile's)

So yes...A Jewish man COULD Lose his Salvation. How? BY believing and then Not Believing...Because Remember...There was No longer A Temple in Jerusalem for a Jew to Take his animal SIN offering. Thus IF, the Jew Rejected JESUS...
What BLOOD was going TO "pay" for that mans SIN...? (And the man be forgiven his SIN? ) None! Thus the Warnings were highly important for the Apostals to stress.

When it was time for the Gentiles to be included...Paul was appointed to be the primary teacher.
And AS with Jesus, or Any Preacher...the crowd (or congregation), are a MIXED group..
Believers, the Unsure, Unbelievers...
So SIDE by side...even in crowds listening to Jesus...The Preacher Addresses the Crowd...that...does not "ALL" Apply to every individual.

ANY person Hearing the Word of God, (approved Scripture of God)...IS:
Being Enlightened:
BY the Mercy, Grace, Power Of The Holy Spirit

That^ IS NOT receiving Salvation...
Nor receiving a Born Again Spirit...
Nor the Indwelling Spirit of God...
That IS receiving A measure of FAITH from God.

Can A man...freely believe and then STOP BELIEVING? Yes.
And what does he LOSE?
Does he Lose Gods Grace? Yes.
Does he Lose Receiving Faith? Yes.
Does he Lose Receiving Salvation? Yes.
Does he Lose Receiving a Quickened spirit? Yes.
Does he Lose having God With him? Yes.
Does he Lose having the Lord CHANGE Him and Receive Gods Spirit IN Him? Yes.

And because NT verses warn about the possibility of losing salvation.

Yes...that warning DOES Apply To SOME men...BUT NOT All men.

It does NOT APPLY TO an Individual...
WHO...
1) HAS with his HEART, (mans natural spiritual TRUTH), CONFESSED BELIEF IN God and that JESUS IS the CHRIST.

2) (not a Confession ... from the EYES having Witnessed a miracle (Sign) or from the MIND (having physilosophically concluded it wisely makes sense...)

3) But Truly from ones Heart...They Believe and Confess that Belief IN the Lords Name.

And WHO truly knows of such a TRUE Confession?
(1) the individual
(2) God

4) And what about such a TRUE Heartful Confession?

5) The Lord God IS QUICK...To receive that man's True Confession and Change That Individual ONCE and Forever.

Some believers became “estranged from Christ”
… they had “fallen from grace” (Galatians 5:4).

Correct. Believers (noted). Converted? That verse does Not Apply to the Converted.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Truther]

A comment like that suggests you're either an complete ignoramus, a fool, or a liar - which one is it?

None.
The RCC teaches folks can drink, which makes folks silly-crazy and smoke, which is a horrible witness etc.

Then it teaches Jesus made alcohol and gave it to those that were already drunk.

Have you seen what drunks do when they are drunk?

Men and women falling, cussing and pawing on each other etc.

Typical RCC party.

 

[Truther]

Yep, and not only that, but the Pope is controlled by aliens who park their flying saucers underneath the Vatican!

No, the Pope is controlled by demonic forces.

 

[Truther]

Now all have to do is back this up with some facts - which Catholic document describes what you claim?

Study the tabernacle process, then sit in on a mass with both eyes open.

Then debunk what I said.

 

[Truther]

When the Prodigal Son left his family he thought he'd done the right thing too.

He left the Father...not the papacy.

 

[Truther]

Sadly, some deceived ex-Catholics have unwittingly become voices of Satanic lies and doctrines of demons.

Once upon a time, I was anti-Catholic too, but then the Holy Spirit open my eyes to the truth and Satan's lies and I returned to my spiritual Mother and God's one true Church.

This mother....


3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.....


Why run back to her?

 

[Truther]

The CC (please refrain from "RCC", it's annoying as it is inaccurate) thinks imposing personal experiences on others is wrong. The Catholic Charismatic Renewal is over 50 years old, where gifts of the Spirit are manifest. It has the support of every Pope since it started in the '60's. The Holy Ghost has led more Protestants, including ministers and scholars, INTO the CC than you are aware of.
The Coming Home Network - Discover Catholicism, Come Home
It is the presence of Jesus that makes a church holy, not the leaders and not how many gifts they may have.
Catholics HEAR the written word of God in every liturgy.
Protestants STUDY the word of God and one means of using the word of God is not automatically inferior to the other.
Ex-Catholics who become anti-Catholics has nothing to do with the truth of Scripture, but with indoctrination.

They are still RCC.

The Holy Ghost was sent to lead folks to the truth, not vindicate their current beliefs, correct?

 

[Truther]

What happens if a believer does commit a sin of fulfilling the lust of the flesh?

They repent and get renewed by praying in the Spirit per 1 Cor 14.
They must not stay in the carnal situation.

 

[Truther]

Are you saying believers can't drink alcohol and/or smoke? Is so, which verse says that?

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

I can't find smoking per se, but blowing smoke rings at someone we are witnessing to does not work.

 

[Truther]

Complete nonsense. You have no idea what you're talking about.
However, when it comes to hating God's one true Church, you are clearly an expert.

Exposing the RCC is not hating it.

It is educating the public.

 

[Truther]

Usually, when someone drinks alcohol, the purpose is to get some kind of buzz (drunkenness).

If you are not drinking to get a buzz, drink something besides alcohol.

The new wine was sent to replace the old wine.

Neither will mix.

The bottle will burst.

Pick one, right?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, God knows the wicked heart of man without the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
Agreed

Yup, and it's not for YOU to say who was Baptized with the Holy Spirit.
It's for GOD alone.

 

[Truther]

Yup, and it's not for YOU to say who was Baptized with the Holy Spirit.
It's for GOD alone.

Very true.
So go tell your priest to obey Acts 2;38.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Nope, the entire mass is a faux copy of the OT tabernacle service.
The add ons are Jesus relics and the statues.
There is no resemblance of a 1st century Christian service to a mass.
The mass is mass unscriptural imitation of Pagan origins.

Not according to FIRST century Bishop of Antico, Ignatius:
Ignatius of Antioch
Make certain, therefore, that you all observe one common Eucharist; for there is but one body of our Lord Jesus Christ, and but one cup of union with his blood, and one single altar of sacrifice —even as there is also but one bishop, with his clergy and my own fellow servitors, the deacons. This will ensure that all your doings are in full accord with the will of God (Letter to the Philadelphians 4 [A.D. 107).
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]).

You see - if you don’t do your homework, you will continue to be exposed for your ignorance . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Very true.
So go tell your priest to obey Acts 2;38.

Not only DO Catholics baptize for the forgiveness of sins – we taught that to the WORLD.

Confession is what you do when you sin AFTER being Baptized (John 20:21-23, 2 Cor. 5:18-20, James 5:16).

Gee, for a guy who claims to have been a Catholic – you’re not very bright, are ya?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Poor priests.
At least they have a cat to pet.

That's okay - most priests don't have the sick obsession with sex that you do . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Okay.
The RCC service has a Jesus theme, a tabernacle theme and pagan statues etc.

"Pagan" statues?
Ummmm, can you be specific?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Usually, when someone drinks alcohol, the purpose is to get some kind of buzz (drunkenness).

If you are not drinking to get a buzz, drink something besides alcohol.

Why did Jesus drink alcohol?
Why did He MAKE alcohol in Cana?

 

[Illuminator]

The senseless Catholic bashing that is allowed to go on and on proves to me that this forum is set up to persecute Catholics. Nobody knows who the owner is. This is not discussion, it is more like a bar room brawl.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

I can't find smoking per se, but blowing smoke rings at someone we are witnessing to does not work.

You may not be aware, but drunkenness is a sin in the Catholic Church. Drinking alcohol does not automatically mean drunkenness, as you seem to imply. The process for making unfermented wine was not invented until the 1800's by the Welch family. The Bible does not forbid the consumption of wine, but it does forbid getting drunk. You seem unable to make the distinction. Here is a clue, truther, fresh squeezed grapes are seasonal, they are not available all the time. Without a fermentation process, an entire grape harvest would go rotten. Your Puritanical/Calvinistic prohibition is a man made tradition.

Matt. 26:27,29; Mark 14:23,25; Luke 22:17-18; 1 Cor. 11:25-27 – Jesus instituted the Eucharist using wine and commanded us to “do this in remembrance of me.” We know that Jesus instituted the Eucharist at the Jewish seder meal, which required the use of wine. Yet some Protestant churches forbid drinking wine. Such a prohibition is not based on the Scriptures.

Luke 7:33-34 – God the Son drank wine and was accused of being a drunk. Are those Protestant churches that forbid the drinking of wine doing the same?

John 2:1-11 – Jesus’ first miracle was turning water into wine which was drunk at the wedding at Cana. Wine is a symbol of the life of the Church, in both the Eucharist and, here, the sanctification of the sacrament of marriage. Verse 10 also indicates that the people drank enough wine at the feast to the point that they might not have recognized good wine from bad wine. Yet Jesus creates for them more wine to drink.

1 Tim. 5:23 – Paul tells Timothy to drink not just water, but a little wine for the sake of his stomach and frequent ailments. If Paul under divine inspiration encourages the drinking of wine, why do some Protestant churches prohibit it?

Gen. 14:18 – Melchizedek offers a bread and wine sacrifice, and Jesus is the Priest in the same manner. Heb. 5:6,10; 6:20; 7:15,17.

Neh. 8:10 – Nehemiah commands the faithful to drink sweet wine to celebrate the Lord and His holy day.

Psalm 104:15 – the Psalmist writes that “wine gladdens the heart of a man.” God gave us the fruit of the vine to enjoy.

This is just one example where your accusations against Catholicism is false, based on man made traditions of strict Puritanical/Calvinistic prohibitions that are not in the Bible.

Exposing the RCC is not hating it.
It is educating the public.

Regurgitating the lies of made-in-America anti-Catholic cults is not "educating the public".

The new wine was sent to replace the old wine.
Neither will mix.
The bottle will burst.
Pick one, right?

Your literal approach to the metaphors Christ used is an abuse of Scripture.

Not according to FIRST century Bishop of Antico, Ignatius:
Ignatius of Antioch
Make certain, therefore, that you all observe one common Eucharist; for there is but one body of our Lord Jesus Christ, and but one cup of union with his blood, and one single altar of sacrifice —even as there is also but one bishop, with his clergy and my own fellow servitors, the deacons. This will ensure that all your doings are in full accord with the will of God (Letter to the Philadelphians 4 [A.D. 107).
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]).

You see - if you don’t do your homework, you will continue to be exposed for your ignorance . . .

But BoL, anti-Catholics choose to be blind to Ignatius of Antioch, or any ECF. (none of them were Protestants) That way they can re-write church history to suit their man made traditions.

 

[Illuminator]

In Romans 7:14-25 , Paul is using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION in order to define carnality. See 1 Corinthians 9:22. He is setting himself forth as weak in order that he might gain the weak.

In scripture, not everyone is defined as carnal believers. There are also the spiritual Christians (1 Corinthians 3:1-3, Galatians 6:1).

I find it implausible that a carnal believer could be an author of holy scripture (as Paul was when he wrote Romans 7:14-25).

Paul was not carnal; he was spiritual: when he wrote Romans 7:14-25. Again, he set forth himself as weak in order that he might gain the weak.

He identified himself as carnal in order to define carnality.

It is clear from holy scripture that only those who are spiritual can originate holy scripture.

2Pe 1:21, For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

First they "spake", then what the "spake" got written as it was was preserved in tradition. Scripture is not stenographed unless it says so. Prophecy and Scripture are very much related, but they are not the same thing. You are emphasizing the fact that what Paul wrote is/was inspired, which is true. But a "carnal believer" has me puzzled.