The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

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Truther

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The senseless Catholic bashing that is allowed to go on and on proves to me that this forum is set up to persecute Catholics. Nobody knows who the owner is. This is not discussion, it is more like a bar room brawl.
You may not be aware, but drunkenness is a sin in the Catholic Church. Drinking alcohol does not automatically mean drunkenness, as you seem to imply. The process for making unfermented wine was not invented until the 1800's by the Welch family. The Bible does not forbid the consumption of wine, but it does forbid getting drunk. You seem unable to make the distinction. Here is a clue, truther, fresh squeezed grapes are seasonal, they are not available all the time. Without a fermentation process, an entire grape harvest would go rotten. Your Puritanical/Calvinistic prohibition is a man made tradition.

Matt. 26:27,29; Mark 14:23,25; Luke 22:17-18; 1 Cor. 11:25-27 – Jesus instituted the Eucharist using wine and commanded us to “do this in remembrance of me.” We know that Jesus instituted the Eucharist at the Jewish seder meal, which required the use of wine. Yet some Protestant churches forbid drinking wine. Such a prohibition is not based on the Scriptures.

Luke 7:33-34 – God the Son drank wine and was accused of being a drunk. Are those Protestant churches that forbid the drinking of wine doing the same?

John 2:1-11 – Jesus’ first miracle was turning water into wine which was drunk at the wedding at Cana. Wine is a symbol of the life of the Church, in both the Eucharist and, here, the sanctification of the sacrament of marriage. Verse 10 also indicates that the people drank enough wine at the feast to the point that they might not have recognized good wine from bad wine. Yet Jesus creates for them more wine to drink.

1 Tim. 5:23 – Paul tells Timothy to drink not just water, but a little wine for the sake of his stomach and frequent ailments. If Paul under divine inspiration encourages the drinking of wine, why do some Protestant churches prohibit it?

Gen. 14:18 – Melchizedek offers a bread and wine sacrifice, and Jesus is the Priest in the same manner. Heb. 5:6,10; 6:20; 7:15,17.

Neh. 8:10 – Nehemiah commands the faithful to drink sweet wine to celebrate the Lord and His holy day.

Psalm 104:15 – the Psalmist writes that “wine gladdens the heart of a man.” God gave us the fruit of the vine to enjoy.

This is just one example where your accusations against Catholicism is false, based on man made traditions of strict Puritanical/Calvinistic prohibitions that are not in the Bible.

Regurgitating made-in-America anti-Catholic cults is not "educating the public".
Your literal approach to the metaphors Christ used is an abuse of Scripture.

But BoL, anti-Catholics choose to be blind to Ignatius of Antioch, or any ECF. (none of them were Protestants) That way they can re-write church history to suit their man made traditions.
Paul told Timothy to drink rotten grapes for his stomach?

Paul knew better than that.

Paul told him to drink grape juice, not rotten grapes.

Grapes are good for you, not rotten grapes.

Rotten eggs are also bad for you
 

justbyfaith

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The new wine was sent to replace the old wine.

Neither will mix.

The bottle will burst.

Pick one, right?

Joe 1:5, Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.

Yup, and it's not for YOU to say who was Baptized with the Holy Spirit.
It's for GOD alone.

According to the verse quoted just above, drunkards are among those who cannot have been baptized in the Holy Ghost. And it is not me saying it, it is the holy scriptures.

That's okay - most priests don't have the sick obsession with sex that you do . . .

Matthew 7:1-6, Luke 6:41-42.

Why did Jesus drink alcohol?

He drank in moderation (see Philippians 4:5 (kjv)) in order to have an open door with tax collectors and sinners; as being the Great Physician.

Why did He MAKE alcohol in Cana?

If I recall correctly, He did so reluctantly.

Drinking alcohol does not automatically mean drunkenness, as you seem to imply. The process for making unfermented wine was not invented until the 1800's by the Welch family. The Bible does not forbid the consumption of wine, but it does forbid getting drunk. You seem unable to make the distinction.

If you are not drinking to get a buzz (drunkenness) then drink something other than alcohol.

1 Tim. 5:23 – Paul tells Timothy to drink not just water, but a little wine for the sake of his stomach and frequent ailments. If Paul under divine inspiration encourages the drinking of wine, why do some Protestant churches prohibit it?

1 Timothy 5:23 is referring to using substances that have medicinal value...even though the normal use of them apart from medicinal value might be construed as sin.
 

Truther

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That's okay - most priests don't have the sick obsession with sex that you do . . .
I have a 6 part series from Sister Charlottes Testimony of rape rooms and baby dumps in lime pits under the convents in old Mexico that she was subjected to. The priests said their seed was the Holy Spirit seed and took her at 13 and raped her at will. She had no clue if it was right because of the torture and no access to the Bible.
She escaped and gave her testimony in hundreds of churches in the 60s and 70s.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Her parents turned her in and when they came for her, they brought her back to the convent, burnt her top off her and made her do penance for her sin of escaping.

Sick priests...

 
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Truther

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Not only DO Catholics baptize for the forgiveness of sins – we taught that to the WORLD.

Confession is what you do when you sin AFTER being Baptized (John 20:21-23, 2 Cor. 5:18-20, James 5:16).

Gee, for a guy who claims to have been a Catholic – you’re not very bright, are ya?
The original church immersed folks.

The RCC sprinkles.

The original Church buried the converts in water baptism.

The RCC sprinkles the dead.

The original Church spoke the name of Jesus Christ during baptism.

The RCC speaks his titles.

No resemblance at all between the two
 

Truther

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Not according to FIRST century Bishop of Antico, Ignatius:
Ignatius of Antioch

Make certain, therefore, that you all observe one common Eucharist; for there is but one body of our Lord Jesus Christ, and but one cup of union with his blood, and one single altar of sacrifice —even as there is also but one bishop, with his clergy and my own fellow servitors, the deacons. This will ensure that all your doings are in full accord with the will of God (Letter to the Philadelphians 4 [A.D. 107).
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]).


You see - if you don’t do your homework, you will continue to be exposed for your ignorance . . .
Try using the Bible next time.
 

BreadOfLife

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All statues are pagan. Oh by the way, they don’t bleed either.
Really??
Were the 2 Golden cherubim that God commanded Moses to create and place atop the Ark “Pagan”?

How about the Bronze Serpent that God commanded Moses to create and place it on a pole so that those who gazed upon it would be healed? Was this “Pagan” – or was it pleasing to God, Einstein?

Aside from not being very bright – your problem is one of abject ignorance of Scripture . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Try using the Bible next time.
WHY??
I wasn’t responding to Scripture. I was responding to YOUR ignorant claim that the FIRST century Church didn’t celebrate Mass.

I showed you the writings of a FIRST century Bishop that proved you wrong.
Deal with it . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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I have a 6 part series from Sister Charlottes Testimony of rape rooms and baby dumps in lime pits under the convents in old Mexico that she was subjected to. The priests said their seed was the Holy Spirit seed and took her at 13 and raped her at will. She had no clue if it was right because of the torture and no access to the Bible.
She escaped and gave her testimony in hundreds of churches in the 60s and 70s.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Her parents turned her in and when they came for her, they brought her back to the convent, burnt her top off her and made her do penance for her sin of escaping.

Sick priests...
Soooooo, Protestant leaders are "immune" to sex scandals??
NOT according to MY sources . . .

Evangelical Sex Abuse Record ‘Worse’ Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham’s Grandson

Protestant Churches Grapple With Growing Sexual Abuse Crisis : NPR

Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’

Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics

There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic

Catholic priests no guiltier of sex abuse than other clergy

Data Shed Light on Child Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy

Data Shed Light on Child Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy
The companies that insure a majority of Protestant churches say they receive upward of 260 reports a year of chi...

 

Truther

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Really??
Were the 2 Golden cherubim that God commanded Moses to create and place atop the Ark “Pagan”?

How about the Bronze Serpent that God commanded Moses to create and place it on a pole so that those who gazed upon it would be healed? Was this “Pagan” – or was it pleasing to God, Einstein?

Aside from not being very bright – your problem is one of abject ignorance of Scripture . . .
You just proved me right.

I said the RCC is a MIXTURE of Christianity, Judaism and Paganism.

You just admitted to putting Jewish tabernacle relics in your services....
 

Truther

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WHY??
I wasn’t responding to Scripture. I was responding to YOUR ignorant claim that the FIRST century Church didn’t celebrate Mass.

I showed you the writings of a FIRST century Bishop that proved you wrong.
Deal with it . . .
No, your Church history begins with the early church "fathers"(centuries after Pentecost), but mine begins in Acts 2.
 

BreadOfLife

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The original church immersed folks.

The RCC sprinkles.

The original Church buried the converts in water baptism.

The RCC sprinkles the dead.

The original Church spoke the name of Jesus Christ during baptism.

The RCC speaks his titles.

No resemblance at all between the two
Your ignorance ALWAYS precedes you . . .

There is not ONE SINGLE Biblical example of a Total Immersion Baptism in the NT. In fact – there is NO description of a Baptism in the Entire NT. For the details of Baptism, we defer to Tradition.
The First Century document, The Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles) is where we FIRST see the details of Baptism – and HOW to Baptize
The Didache - Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism
And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit.


Do your HOMEWORK, sparky . . .

PS -
The Catholic Church does not now, nor has she EVER Baptized the dead.
Another one of your LIES exposed . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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You just proved me right.

I said the RCC is a MIXTURE of Christianity, Judaism and Paganism.

You just admitted to putting Jewish tabernacle relics in your services....
Which YOU idiotically referred to as "pagan".
They were commanded by GOD, Einstein . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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No, your Church history begins with the early church "fathers"(centuries after Pentecost), but mine begins in Acts 2.
Wrong - and I proved you wrong by showing you the writings of Ignatius of Antioch- FIRST century Bishop.

Man, you really ARE dense, aren't you . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Was he a writer of the Bible?
Nope, and neither are ANY of the leaders of your quasi-Christian "Oneness" cult.

Ignatius was a student of the Apostle John and a witness of the first century Church.