The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[brightfame52]

And who may I ask are Christ people

His Sheep, His Body the Church, or Gods Elect.

 

[brightfame52]

The church wasn't in exsistence before Jesus died. The Church is all those who have come to him since. And those are the ones it means. Anyone who is born of the Spirit is Church.

Thats False.

 

[Kermos]

So to you the whole world does not mean the whole world then.

John writes of the born of God Christian "the evil one does not touch him" (1 John 5:18).

John immediately proceeds to explain that the evil one touches the whole world with his writing of "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19).

"The whole world" does not mean everybody everywhere in all time to the Apostle John, and here is proof right in the Apostles writing.

Okay. I suppose "NO" doesn't always mean no to you as well?

I am not talking about the definition of the word "no".

I am talking about the use of the word "world" in the New Testament.

funny but I looked up "whole world in the Greek. Boy was I surprised! Know why? Because it means the whole world!

For a proper scriptural analysis of the word "world" in a New Testament please see John 3:16, The Word World, and New Testament Usage

The Greek Lexicon is linked for the word "world", and multiple verses with differing meanings for the word "world" are included.

The word world is dependent upon context within the New Testament as in the aforementioned link.

I looked up Lie. It is a geographical and not intimate or personal time.

That's not just "Lie", @Ronald Nolette, God had me right to you:

The phrase "lies in" is an intimate affair which involves "touch" with an intimate nature, so the group of people that are a part of "the whole world" are intimate, even servile, with "the evil one", and "No one can serve two masters" (Matthew 6:24).

Now god is a whole lot smarter than the "whole world" combined. He also created the languages. He chose certain words here to mean that we are of God and every one physically lis in the wicked one, which explicitly speaks of where we are physically located! If God wanted to say what you have written, He would have done so and doesn't need your superior knowledge to correct His inspiration. But hey that is my opinion of God!

By your own admission of answering "yes" to the question:

@Ronald Nolette, do you believe that you, right now, are a part of "the whole world" as it is written in "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19)?

Then the evil one touches you (1 John 5:19), yet no born of God Christian is touched by the evil one (1 John 5:18).

In other words, you have not overcome the evil one because the Apostle John wrote that born of God Christians "have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), yet you claimed to be a part of the whole world that lies in the evil one (1 John 5:19).

All born of God Christians have overcome the evil one (1 John 2:13), so we born of God Christians are beyond the evil one.

By your testimony of scripture, you indicate that you have not overcome the evil one.

 

[Pearl]

Thats False.

Well okay then, it was very small until after Pentecost when it began to grow. But I'm sure you knew what I meant really.

 

[farouk]

The church wasn't in exsistence before Jesus died. The Church is all those who have come to him since. And those are the ones it means. Anyone who is born of the Spirit is Church.

@Pearl Yes, the church's birthday was at Pentecost. The Old Testament had those who were justified (Hebrews 11, etc.) but they were not part of the church.

 

[farouk]

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. John 3:16-20

@Pearl My wife and I were reading this passage just this week. What a source of blessing to so many readers it has been!

 

[Pearl]

@Pearl My wife and I were reading this passage just this week. What a source of blessing to so many readers it has been!

Yes farouk, 'whoever believe in him shall not perish but have eternal life'. Nobody needs to be left out but sadly so many choose not to believe. But all who do become part of His Church and His family.

 

[farouk]

Yes farouk, 'whoever believe in him shall not perish but have eternal life'. Nobody needs to be left out but sadly so many choose not to believe. But all who do become part of His Church and His family.

@Pearl Acts 17 says: 'God commandeth all men everywhere to repent'....the message is still going forth....

 

[farouk]

Romans 6:10
The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

@Pearl Good verse there...

 

[Kermos]

Yes farouk, 'whoever believe in him shall not perish but have eternal life'. Nobody needs to be left out but sadly so many choose not to believe. But all who do become part of His Church and His family.

"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (Jesus Christ, John 6:29).

A person believing in Lord Jesus has this "believing" mentioned in John 3:16 controlled by the Christ of us Christians.

Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work, created in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:8-10).

Peter is in accord with Jesus' words for Peter declared "God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:8-9).

So, clearly, Jesus' words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God.

All glory for the salvation of man is God's - none of the glory goes to man such as by a person trying to steal God's glory by a person purportedly choosing Jesus - all glory is God's for saving man from the wrath of God.

Christ died exclusively for His friends in whom Christ imparts faith/belief in Jesus whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

 

[Pearl]

@Pearl Acts 17 says: 'God commandeth all men everywhere to repent'....the message is still going forth....

Amen. Turning to Jesus was the best thing I ever did.

 

[MatthewG]

Waste of time to fight. Study the word you’ll find out the truth. Don’t ever even believe what i say, test things out but if you a case of fighting bickering or complaining just knock the dust off your feet. Keep walking.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

For a proper scriptural analysis of the word "world" in a New Testament please see John 3:16, The Word World, and New Testament Usage

The Greek Lexicon is linked for the word "world", and multiple verses with differing meanings for the word "world" are included.

The word world is dependent upon context within the New Testament as in the aforementioned link.

Amazing you toot your own horn. Yes you regurgitated correct uses of the word world! but Jesus used numbers 21 as a metaphor!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I am not talking about the definition of the word "no".

I am talking about the use of the word "world" in the New Testament.

Wells as the word world as prefixed by lie which is a geographical word- your argument is irrelevant.

John writes of the born of God Christian "the evil one does not touch him" (1 John 5:18).

John immediately proceeds to explain that the evil one touches the whole world with his writing of "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19).

"The whole world" does not mean everybody everywhere in all time to the Apostle John, and here is proof right in the Apostles writing.

Reading minds is forbidden for Christians- so your attempt to tell us what was on John's mind is silly. If John meant the whole world was relationally in the lap of the wicked one- He had perfectly good words to use, instead of the ones He did./

As the phrase "the whole world".... the verb is a present indicative- your argument of everybody, everywhere, all time- is another straw man.

The phrase "lies in" is an intimate affair which involves "touch" with an intimate nature, so the group of people that are a part of "the whole world" are intimate, even servile, with "the evil one", and "No one can serve two masters" (Matthew 6:24).

Unfortunately- no! Keimai is used of being in a place! It is only used of a relation when used metaphorically or parabolically and teh grammar here is not metaphorical in any way shape or form. Your lack of understanding grammar leads you astray.

@Ronald Nolette, do you believe that you, right now, are a part of "the whole world" as it is written in "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19)?

Then the evil one touches you (1 John 5:19), yet no born of God Christian is touched by the evil one (1 John 5:18).

In other words, you have not overcome the evil one because the Apostle John wrote that born of God Christians "have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), yet you claimed to be a part of the whole world that lies in the evil one (1 John 5:19).

All born of God Christians have overcome the evil one (1 John 2:13), so we born of God Christians are beyond the evil one.

By your testimony of scripture, you indicate that you have not overcome the evil one.

No again! It is by your faulty understanding of this passage that you dare take the role of Jesus and make a judgment of my salvation!

I testified I have overcome eth weevil one by Jesus' bloods shed for me! That is enough.

and evil one is a poor translation of porneros in vse 19 It is correct in verse 18 for it is Nominative which makes it the subject, but in verse 19 it is dative which makes it an indirect object tied to the verb so wickedness as is the normal translation is the better translation.

 

[Kermos]

Amen. Turning to Jesus was the best thing I ever did.

"I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Jesus Christ, Matthew 11:25).

A person repents and turns to Jesus by the act of God according to the Christ of us Christians.

The Apostles are in accord with Jesus' words with their saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life" (Acts 11:18).

So, clearly, Jesus' words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward).

All glory for the salvation of man is God's - none of the glory goes to man such as by a person trying to steal God's glory by a person purportedly causing themselves to repent regarding Jesus - all glory is God's for saving man from the wrath of God.

Christ died exclusively for His friends whom Christ causes to turn to Himself.

 

[Kermos]

Waste of time to fight. Study the word you’ll find out the truth. Don’t ever even believe what i say, test things out but if you a case of fighting bickering or complaining just knock the dust off your feet. Keep walking.

Apparently, you do not believe the Word of God is good unto a person being saved from the wrath of God (Romans 1:16).

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Kermos

I don’t believe people are going to experience the wrath of God because the ones who were going to experience the wrath of God was the nation of Israel for rejecting the Son of God…

I do believe people lose out spiritually for not choosing to seek for God and the Lord Jesus Christ though.

I have unorthodox beliefs that involve that the last days are over with, Hell has been done away with, and that Satan and his demons have been defeated as well, and that Jesus came back when he said he was going to them in that age, and God reigns now.

I am a very firm believer of Revelation 22 in what Heaven will be like. There will be people who go into the kingdom of heaven, there will be those who stay outside the gates.

I am very open to anyone about my beliefs and the best choice a person can make is to really look and fall in love with God and the Lord Jesus and have love for others in this world while they live it.

We will most certainly die one day.

 

[Kermos]

Amazing you toot your own horn. Yes you regurgitated correct uses of the word world! but Jesus used numbers 21 as a metaphor!

Lord Jesus quoted the recorded word in Numbers 21:8-9 as a direct correlation to His recorded words in John 3:14-16.

Christ causes the word "world" in John 3:16 to mean the population of persons currently are or in the future to be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

I proclaim the Word of God, yet you blindly call it "toot your own horn", so you do not recognize the Word of God.

 

[MatthewG]

Obviously not everyone is saved @brightfame52 that is what your original post suggest. That they are not being saved to the kingdom of God, because of having no faith.

Ive done a video on this before saying are all people Gods children?

All people are Gods creation; and Jesus paid for all of the sin that came when Adam and Eve had committed and we inherited. Jesus paid for sin, and saved everyone from the wrath of God (except Israel they had it coming because of disobeying), Jesus saved the world from Satan and his demons, Jesus died so people come be set free from bondage of sin and death. Jesus saved people from having to go to hell because hell was overcame and death was defeated and done away with thrown in the lake of fire.

Jesus saved mankind; but there are people who have no faith, and are not saved to the kingdom of heaven, and having faith is what makes a person a child of God when they actively seek relationship with the Father.

 

[Kermos]

Wells as the word world as prefixed by lie which is a geographical word- your argument is irrelevant.

The word "world" is not prefixed by "lie" in the sentence "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19); therefore, you lie (deceive) about John's writing.

Reading minds is forbidden for Christians- so your attempt to tell us what was on John's mind is silly. If John meant the whole world was relationally in the lap of the wicked one- He had perfectly good words to use, instead of the ones He did./

John's contextual usage of "world" in 1 John 5:19 clearly does NOT include born of God Christians because "the evil one does not touch" we born of God Christians (1 John 5:18).

As the phrase "the whole world".... the verb is a present indicative- your argument of everybody, everywhere, all time- is another straw man.

That just doesn't make sense linguistically.

Unfortunately- no! Keimai is used of being in a place! It is only used of a relation when used metaphorically or parabolically and teh grammar here is not metaphorical in any way shape or form. Your lack of understanding grammar leads you astray.

Actually, the phrase in English is "lies in" which comes from Greek "keimai" (lies, Strong's 2749) and Greek "en" (inside, in, Strong's 1722), so the whole world (non-christians) lie inside (a place) the evil one (1 John 5:19).

And your answer of "yes" to the question "@Ronald Nolette, do you believe that you, right now, are a part of "the whole world" as it is written in 'the whole world lies in the evil one' (1 John 5:19)?" places you in the location of inside the evil one - a place with you touching the evil one - the place of non-christians - Christians are not touched by the evil one (1 John 5:18).

No again! It is by your faulty understanding of this passage that you dare take the role of Jesus and make a judgment of my salvation!

I testified I have overcome eth weevil one by Jesus' bloods shed for me! That is enough.

Not according to your answer of "yes" to the question "@Ronald Nolette, do you believe that you, right now, are a part of "the whole world" as it is written in 'the whole world lies in the evil one' (1 John 5:19)?" which puts you in the place of being touched by the evil one instead of you having overcome (beyond the touch of) the evil one - Christians have overcome the evil one (1 John 2:13).

In contrast, you wrote "I testified I have overcome eth weevil one".

So, you wrote you have overcome the evil one AND you conveyed you have not overcome the evil one.

Your thoughts about yourself holds that two mutually exclusive things are true simultaneously.

By definition logically and linguistically, two mutually exclusive premises can not be true simultaneously.

The thoughts of your heart are confusion; on the other hand, "God is not a God of confusion but of peace" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

and evil one is a poor translation of porneros in vse 19 It is correct in verse 18 for it is Nominative which makes it the subject, but in verse 19 it is dative which makes it an indirect object tied to the verb so wickedness as is the normal translation is the better translation.

In 1 John 5:19, the Greek word "πονηρῷ" (Strong's 4190) is an adjective with a number of singular (not plural) meaning "evil" or "wicked", yet the KJV translators translated this word to the noun "wickedness". That word translation is a fail for the KJV translators.

The word "evil" is an adjective; therefore, the author implied the subsequent noun of "one", which is singular, being modified by the adjective "evil".

The accurate translation of that word results in "evil one" due to "evil" being the adjective and "one" being the singular noun modified by the adjective.

The phrase "evil one" is the translation in the NIV, ESV, and NASB.

In 1 John 2:13, the same principle applies for "evil one".