The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

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theefaith

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No, He was not lying when He said that,
......nor was He lying when He said the rest of the passage...in verse:
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Mark 16:16 The requirements for those who are being saved cannot be undone by the requirements for those not being saved! He who believes and is baptized is still required for salvation? Heaven and earth may pass away but my words shall not pass away!

It is Reasonable that if they reject faith why bother mentioning the second requirement?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Eph 1:13 4:30 sealed

God says baptism! Ez 36:25:27
Jesus Christ says baptism! Mk 16:16
Peter says baptism! Acts 3:38 1 Pet 3:21
Paul say baptism! 1 cor 1:16 1 cor 12:13
The apostles say baptism! Acts 2:38 acts 8:35
 

theefaith

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Even though I don't know where I said that...
I do see where you are trying to go now...

You are saying that one believes and is Water Batized for salvation....

Therefore it's not by faith alone if scripture adds water Baptism in order to be saved.

But I do not see faith in the way you presume I do. Faith is being ready to act on what you believe is to be true.

However the problem you have here....is what needs to be thought on...Is what "Jesus"
Saying a statement of fact, or a command?

For all through the scriptures when many received the message they were water Baptized. As this was a sign for others of their commitment. Or an outward expression of what was taking place within.



But does it have to mean the water actually saved them?

Fallacy Files #3: Confused Conditionals – Analogical Thoughts
Fallacy Files #3: Confused Conditionals

Now even though I do not agree with you there... I do Believe the faith that saves works by love...

As for Do I believe that faith alone saves...

I DO BELIEVE God saves-therefore
What Jesus did on the cross ....and His resurrection ....mean salvation is secure in Him.

And if one is not in Him How can o e be saved by Him.

Therefore the faith or faithfulness of Christ is our salvation.

Alone it saves no one, but connected to Him it saves.

Like the ark....alone it is salvation[away to escape the flood.

But by itself it saves no one you must get in it[be connected] to be delivered by it.

So The faith that saves, is a faith that works by love.

Not to earn Salvation, but the means in which we access Grace.

So another words you can't do nothing without Him.
And without Him you will certainly do no thing.

Take Jesus ....there is no greater love than a man lay down His life for a friend.

the sacrament of Christian baptism is a complete ritual. And the only initiation into the new covenant of grace!

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!

JTB prepared the way for Christ by baptism!
 

Corlove13

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Mark 16:16 The requirements for those who are being saved cannot be undone by the requirements for those not being saved! He who believes and is baptized is still required for salvation? Heaven and earth may pass away but my words shall not pass away!

It is Reasonable that if they reject faith why bother mentioning the second requirement?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Eph 1:13 4:30 sealed

God says baptism! Ez 36:25:27
Jesus Christ says baptism! Mk 16:16
Peter says baptism! Acts 3:38 1 Pet 3:21
Paul say baptism! 1 cor 1:16 1 cor 12:13
The apostles say baptism! Acts 2:38 acts 8:35
Baptism sometimes is speaking of water and sometimes speaking of spiritually.

But...my point was made clear....the later part of the verse does not say He who is not Baptized with water is condemn...

Just like if I said those who take a sleeping pill and get in their bed will be sleep.
But those who do not take a sleeping pill are restless.

Why add get in their bed, because that is what they usually do after taking a sleeping pill.

But to make a statement does one have to say everything they do not mean by it?

For some may take a sleeping pill and not be restless but fell asleep at a friends house or on the floor.....
 

theefaith

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Baptism sometimes is speaking of water and sometimes speaking of spiritually.

But...my point was made clear....the later part of the verse does not say He who is not Baptized with water is condemn...

Just like if I said those who take a sleeping pill and get in their bed will be sleep.
But those who do not take a sleeping pill are restless.

Why add get in their bed, because that is what they usually do after taking a sleeping pill.

But to make a statement does one have to say everything they do not mean by it?

For some may take a sleeping pill and not be restless but fell asleep at a friends house or on the floor.....

rejection of scripture is rejection of Christ
 

theefaith

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Baptism sometimes is speaking of water and sometimes speaking of spiritually.

But...my point was made clear....the later part of the verse does not say He who is not Baptized with water is condemn...

Just like if I said those who take a sleeping pill and get in their bed will be sleep.
But those who do not take a sleeping pill are restless.

Why add get in their bed, because that is what they usually do after taking a sleeping pill.

But to make a statement does one have to say everything they do not mean by it?

For some may take a sleeping pill and not be restless but fell asleep at a friends house or on the floor.....

so faith alone!

You separate Christ and his church!
Acts 9:4 christ and his church are one
And you cannot be in the church without faith and baptism

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
 

theefaith

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If you say so.....if you believe everybody going to hell because they didn't get water baptized....so be it for you....I normally do not argue with Catholics....so peace to ya....

covenants have requirements

I supposed all are saved?
 

theefaith

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We don’t believe the Bible alone

but all God has revealed by scripture and tradition

by the teaching authority of the apostles

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments




Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

Successors of Jesus Christ!

Jesus already prepares His apostles to continue His mission with His power (binding and loosing) and with His authority (keys) matt 16:18 matt 18:18

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

John 4:1 when therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John...
Jn 4:2 Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples

Here we see Jesus delegating to His successors, Peter and the apostles!

Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing

There can be no unity of the spirit without obedience to the faith! Rom 1:5 eph 4:3

Matt 28 I am with you (the apostles)

The papacy based on Matt 16:18 and Isa 22:21-22

Matt 16:18-19
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Isa 22:21-22
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Behold I am with you (the successors or the apostles until the end of the age, so the successors must remain until the end of the age) matt 28:19

(None of the so called reformers were apostles) (no man has authority to start a church)
 

Corlove13

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the sacrament of Christian baptism is a complete ritual. And the only initiation into the new covenant of grace!

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!

JTB prepared the way for Christ by baptism!
Honest it's really Simple when scripture states what water Batism means. One is Baptized because they have already came alive.
Now they express outwardly to man what God has done in their heart. Recall the things seen are temporary, the things unseen are eternal.
rejection of scripture is rejection of Christ
Stop telling on yourself...You the one that left the second part of the scripture out.....
 

theefaith

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where does the Bible say faith, then baptism is only a witness???

Where is this verse in scripture???

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all ”faith alone” into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been ”Faith alone” in Christ have put on Christ.

Ephesians 4:5 
“Faith alone”

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Ephesians 4:5 
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
 

Corlove13

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where does the Bible say faith, then baptism is only a witness???

Where is this verse in scripture???

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all ”faith alone” into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been ”Faith alone” in Christ have put on Christ.

Ephesians 4:5 
“Faith alone”

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Ephesians 4:5 
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

After people received or obeyed from the heart a teaching they were usually Baptized with water.

If you look how the pharisees came to John...
for Baptism...yet He tells them to bring forth fruit of repentance.....

When they say one is making more followers than the other through Baptism

Because it is about the work on the inside...
And the things on the outside have always been about works to be Justified by Men...
For God first is the one that cleanses you on the inside through faith.

If you look at circumcision it was an outward sign of the one who would keep the law.

But if you did not keep the law then?

But the Gentiles who keep the law it said: shouldn't circumcision be counted onto them.

Did water Baptism save Jesus? But God announce who He was through it, and not that He did not know who his son was, but for others to know.....

Even In Acts....when it says who shall forbid water to those[the gentiles] who received the Holy Spirit just as we. It's a rite

Go to Galatians And He asked them....have they started off by the Spirit.....to be justified by works? Another words the Spirit is what saves you....the impartation of life.

The Eunich wanted to be baptized... but the disciple asked first If He really believed.

Anyway sometimes Baptism is speaking of being immersed in water and sometimes times it's not.

Then duly noted is the passages that states whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved......

Paul is told to arise and be Baptized calling upon the name of the Lord.


Anyway that should be enough there to make one rethink their thinking.

Also don't reject this passage, because by your own words you condemn yourself....

2 Cor 4:18
So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal is eternal.


 
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