The Oddities of different teachings through organization(s).

[MatthewG]

I don't care what people believe.

If that message was written to a specific people at a certain time, who is to say those in that first century age was encouraged to watch and wait, why wouldn't those seeking - in faith not seen him return?

Anyway, I dont care @Earburner, so its better off just to drop it with me

You wanna believe and wait on Jesus to come in your day, just wait on it and perhaps you'll see it.


All I know is DEATH

IS COMING EVENTUALLY

THEN YOUL PASS ON HERE TO THERE - the Heavenly Realm - either outside or going on the inside the Heavenly Jerusalem.

don't you get it?

That is what I get out of the Bible - to live and love God and to love others.

Even if they still believe Jesus is still coming back - though most would see me as a heretic - someone who is false...

BUT I HAVE EXPLAINED - "I believe by Faith Jesus Christ did return" and that certainly is not good enough for people...


Can't you just leave me alone about it? Thanks @Earburner.

 

[Earburner]

I don't care what people believe.

If that message was written to a specific people at a certain time, who is to say those in that first century age was encouraged to watch and wait, why wouldn't those seeking - in faith not seen him return?

Anyway, I dont care @Earburner, so its better off just to drop it with me

You wanna believe and wait on Jesus to come in your day, just wait on it and perhaps you'll see it.


All I know is DEATH

IS COMING EVENTUALLY

THEN YOUL PASS ON HERE TO THERE - the Heavenly Realm - either outside or going on the inside the Heavenly Jerusalem.

don't you get it?

That is what I get out of the Bible - to live and love God and to love others.

Even if they still believe Jesus is still coming back - though most would see me as a heretic - someone who is false...

BUT I HAVE EXPLAINED - "I believe by Faith Jesus Christ did return" and that certainly is not good enough for people...


Can't you just leave me alone about it? Thanks @Earburner.

All Born Again Christians do believe that because of the Holy Spirit of Christ within them, they shall never die (John 11:26) after their mortal body breathes its last breath. John 3:18.
Therefore, we no longer remain condemned as those who do breathe their last breath, having not the Spirit of Christ. Rom. 8:9.
As a result, whoever dies without the Spirit of Christ within them, they do not belong to Christ at all, and therefore they cannot be resurrected into New Life.....EVER.

As they were subject to the first death (as all are), but for all their life neglected God's Grace through Jesus, they now are subject to and committed to eternal death, because their names will not be found written in the book of Life, who is Jesus. Rev. 20:15

 

[MatthewG]

people seem to forget that revelation doesn’t end at Revelation 20.

So whatever Earburner. Believe what you will friend. (Which seems to be just another annihilation belief).

You want to share your beliefs it’s fine. No one has to believe me or you though and that’s the main point of why this thread was created sir.

I don’t care what one believes it’s between you and God when you die and leave here. Especially with your own subject belief system used with the Bible.


(Please read here)

I believe revelation 1-20 have happened with 21-22 being pictures of the afterlife and what we can learn from it: is between you, God and the Spirit.

 

[MatthewG]

Thread 'The Oddities of different teachings through organization(s).'
The Oddities of different teachings through organization(s).

Original
Post

 

[Earburner]

people seem to forget that revelation doesn’t end at Revelation 20.

For most people, Rev. 20 shall end for them,......in the lake of fire .
Here is why-
Rev. 20
[14] And death and hell [the graves] were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Do you know how it is that mortal death SHALL END?
Ans. In the Day of the Lord's fiery return, there won't be anyone left alive, who is mortal. KJV Luke 17:28-30, 2 Thes. 1:7-10.

Edit:
There will be no more old creatures of "the natural man" (or woman) to continue the procreation of the old creature in mortal flesh. Therefore, with no more births, there will be no more death. As for us, who do believe in Jesus, we already are eternal.
John 11:26
1 John 5:12-13.

 

[MatthewG]

That is great @Earburner. Anything else you wanna share?

 

[MatthewG]

What about Revelation 21 - 22?

Revelation 21

New International Version

​

A New Heaven and a New Earth​

21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[b] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

The New Jerusalem, the Bride of the Lamb​

9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. 11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper,clear as crystal. 12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls.16 The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia[c] in length, and as wide and high as it is long. 17 The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubits[d] thick.[e] 18 The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. 19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.[f] 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass.
22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

 

[MatthewG]

Revelation 22

New International Version

​

Eden Restored​

22 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

John and the Angel​

6 The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.”
7 “Look, I am coming soon! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy written in this scroll.”
8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. 9 But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll.Worship God!”
10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near.11 Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”

Epilogue: Invitation and Warning​

12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them,God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.

 

[MatthewG]

What do you think about those Chapters @Earburner?

 

[Earburner]

21 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

It's right there in front of you "a new heaven and a new earth".
Learn to accept this: there will be no more any mortal men or women left on the old earth, they will have been burned up (destroyed) ALONG with this OLD earth.
2 Peter 3
[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and
the elements [old earth] shall melt with fervent heat [burning lava, aka the lake of fire], the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

[13] Nevertheless WE, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth [God's] righteousness.

 

[Earburner]

What do you think about those Chapters @Earburner?

It's all about the saints who had been redeemed, in that very "same day" that the unsaved shall be destroyed. Why are they destroyed?
They never belonged to Jesus, because they DID NOT HAVE the literal Spirit of Christ within them.
Rom. 8:8-9. They couldn't and can't ever be resurrected into the likeness of Christ....ever. Rom.6:5. They were never made to be partakers of His divine nature now, while they still had breath. 2 Peter 1:4.
There names were never written in the book of life, who is Jesus.

 

[MatthewG]

There sure is a lot to it. Especially when it comes to what a person believes, it’s always the word of God that helps transform lives.

 

[Earburner]

There sure is a lot to it. Especially when it comes to what a person believes, it’s always the word of God that helps transform lives.

I surely do agree with that.
We who do have the literal Spirit of Christ, aka the Mind of Christ dwelling within us, are now no longer living out our own lives, but rather Him living His life through us by His Holy Spirit. We truly are new creatures/a new creation of God the Father.,
John 3:18
John 16:13
Romans 8:8-9
1 Cor. 2:16
Gal. 2:20
2 Cor. 5:17
1 John 5:12-13

Both literally and figuratively, we ARE God's New earth, and Jesus Himself is the New heaven.
2 Cor. 2
[7] But we have this treasure [their Holy Spirit] in earthen vessels [our bodies of flesh], that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
Rev. 21
[22] And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb ARE the temple of it.
[23] And the city [the saints] had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

[24] And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
[25] And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
[26] And they [the saved] shall bring the glory and honour of the nations [of the saved] into it.
1 Cor. 3
[16] Know ye not that YE ARE the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
2 Cor. 6
[16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for YE ARE the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

 

[MatthewG]

Oh yeah? How cool. The Bible sure has a lot of wisdom found within it. Praise be to God for the Holy Spirit, and the spirit of Christ which indwells a person who choose to believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of the one God sent, down from heaven, who once was known as the Word, Jesus Christ. May people be encouraged to read their bible.

 

[Earburner]

Oh yeah? How cool. The Bible sure has a lot of wisdom found within it. Praise be to God for the Holy Spirit, and the spirit of Christ which indwells a person who choose to believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of the one God sent, down from heaven, who once was known as the Word, Jesus Christ. May people be encouraged to read their bible.

Amen!!
However, why the words: "Oh yeah? How cool." ??
Are you being sarcastic?

Of all people here on this site, I am half way in understanding you, and you me.
We both believe in our spiritual resurrection in Jesus.
Col. 2[12] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
[13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col. 3[1] If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

 

[MatthewG]

Just going along with what you are sharing here my friend.

Believe me I believe that Jesus Christ has raised again, by God.

I believe that people are believers in Christ are now the temple of God - in which the Spirit of Christ dwells, and the Holy Spirit of God. While in this life people who are Christians, are not relying on their flesh to make it through, but relying on God, in supplications and prayers, talking to God and having a relationship in that manner. They by their own merit choose to go and seek what the Bible says, and they strive to live for God in the right way of serving him by and through the spirit of Christ. There is suffering along the way of choosing to follow after Christ, such as dying to oneself, because of the flesh and whatever it is it wants needs to be died to. New Born Christians, may not know these things, but if you decide to take time read the Bible and grow in your knowledge of who God is by yourself, it will grow if you are curious about those things.

 

[MatthewG]

I may not fully agree with everything you may say, but I love you either way it goes in Christ, @Earburner.

People have the choice to make on their own to seek out God in faith, just as much as the rest of us human beings out here in the earth. Some people don't have bibles, they only have nature to go by which they believe the God of the universe that created it, created it.

 

[Earburner]

Just going along with what you are sharing here my friend.

Believe me I believe that Jesus Christ has raised again, by God.

I believe that people are believers in Christ are now the temple of God - in which the Spirit of Christ dwells, and the Holy Spirit of God. While in this life people who are Christians, are not relying on their flesh to make it through, but relying on God, in supplications and prayers, talking to God and having a relationship in that manner. They by their own merit choose to go and seek what the Bible says, and they strive to live for God in the right way of serving him by and through the spirit of Christ. There is suffering along the way of choosing to follow after Christ, such as dying to oneself, because of the flesh and whatever it is it wants needs to be died to. New Born Christians, may not know these things, but if you decide to take time read the Bible and grow in your knowledge of who God is by yourself, it will grow if you are curious about those things.

Amen!!

 

[MatthewG]

So thank you for your encouragement @Earburner, cause that is all you seemed to be doing while we were talking about Topics dealing with Revelation, and Topics dealing in other matters. I don't have to accept what people talk about on this board, but can be understanding in why people believe like they do because perhaps that is something they made the choice to decide okay this is what I believe and I am sticking to it. Sometimes it is what other people may have taught others through traditions and they say to themselves this is what I learned so I am not gonna change my mind on anything and gonna stick with what I have been taught through the traditions me and my church may do whatever those things may be.


I don't hate anyone to the best of my ability - as my flesh can easily hate, become bitter, and hostile, but try to live by the spirit, and not kill no body - even if it is a bad thoughts that come through - the only way to get these things to stop is by giving our thoughts to God, when they are forming in the mind/will/emotion of the soul itself which Christ can help hold back our fleshly desires that come from what we will with-in our soul.

May people will differ with me on many things, it's expected, and I don't assume people should believe me without testing all things out by the Spirit and seek out the answer for themselves at least, but I know one thing, I am a lazy person, and if I am a lazy person there are countless of other people that may just be as lazy as me.

It's the will of the person - do they wanna seek after the things of God - or not, because all the things here in the world aren't gonna transfer over when we leave here, in my best estimation, which no one has to agree to - All I know is that this world was not apart of Jesus Kingdom, his Kingdom was not from here - that must mean it is in Heaven, and what does that look like? I can only see glimpses and pieces from the Bible itself.

 

[Earburner]

So thank you for your encouragement @Earburner, cause that is all you seemed to be doing while we were talking about Topics dealing with Revelation, and Topics dealing in other matters. I don't have to accept what people talk about on this board, but can be understanding in why people believe like they do because perhaps that is something they made the choice to decide okay this is what I believe and I am sticking to it. Sometimes it is what other people may have taught others through traditions and they say to themselves this is what I learned so I am not gonna change my mind on anything and gonna stick with what I have been taught through the traditions me and my church may do whatever those things may be.


I don't hate anyone to the best of my ability - as my flesh can easily hate, become bitter, and hostile, but try to live by the spirit, and not kill no body - even if it is a bad thoughts that come through - the only way to get these things to stop is by giving our thoughts to God, when they are forming in the mind/will/emotion of the soul itself which Christ can help hold back our fleshly desires that come from what we will with-in our soul.

May people will differ with me on many things, it's expected, and I don't assume people should believe me without testing all things out by the Spirit and seek out the answer for themselves at least, but I know one thing, I am a lazy person, and if I am a lazy person there are countless of other people that may just be as lazy as me.

It's the will of the person - do they wanna seek after the things of God - or not, because all the things here in the world aren't gonna transfer over when we leave here, in my best estimation, which no one has to agree to - All I know is that this world was not apart of Jesus Kingdom, his Kingdom was not from here - that must mean it is in Heaven, and what does that look like? I can only see glimpses and pieces from the Bible itself.

We are all individuals, having our own thoughts and opinions about everything.
Only Jesus is the Truth. It is He who said that He came not to send Peace on the earth, but rather division.

So then. Not only is the whole world of countries and empires all divided up, but so also are the visible churches, to the point of even having divisions within the names of their own denominational headings.
Though they desperately try, and probably soon shall succeed by force, It hasn't stopped since creation, nor will it stop with the visible churches.
So my conclusion is:
"There can always be more than one lie, but there can never be more than one truth"- Earburner.

Thank you for the lively and honest discussion. I have enjoyed it very much.

In His Love and in His Peace,
Earburner.