The Oddities of different teachings through organization(s).

[Scott Downey]

1 Corinthians 1
18 For the [g]message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the [h]disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a [i]stumbling block and to the [j]Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Glory Only in the Lord​

26 For [k]you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many [l]noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the [m]base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

And of course Ephesians 1 and 2 confirm this as well. Our salvation in all it's aspects is of the Lord Himself.

 

[rockytopva]

It is nice when teachings produce wonderful Christian men and women of God... Like those who were at our last Sunnyside Pentecostal Holiness church get together!

 

[rockytopva]

Along with testimonies of being Baptized in creeks full of snakes...

 

[Charlie24]

Salvation is only for those who have been born again by God's Holy Spirit, no one else qualifies.
You have to ask yourself where does that faith to believe come from, yourself or Christ.

I got the answer for you it is given-granted to you by the Father to be a believer.
Philippians 1
27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, 28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but [f]to you of salvation, and that from God.

29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.

John 6
64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went [p]back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the [q]Christ, the Son of the living God.”

Romans 12
3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.


Acts 3:16
And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

Romans 8 God granted you to belong to Christ to build the family of God. so that Christ would have children-followers.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

1 Tim. 2:3-4
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

God's desire is for all to be saved! But we know that each and every person will decide that for themselves.

Scott, it seems you are dabbling with Calvin's theory of predestination.

 

[Scott Downey]

1 Tim. 2:3-4
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

God's desire is for all to be saved! But we know that each and every person will decide that for themselves.

Scott, it seems you are dabbling with Calvin's theory of predestination.

No, I am reading the scripture, but you're creating a block to your understanding predestination. You have no answer for any of the scriptures I posted, so you ignore them, and even try to set scripture at odds against itself thereby nullifying the words.
Many people ignore the scripture they don't like. God can desire all people believe and even command it, but only actually save some. Scripturally when people decide for themselves things by leaning on their own understanding, they make bad choices.
No one can know God by human wisdom or understanding. All knowledge of the true Christ to a person comes by revelation alone.

13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”

14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

 

[Scott Downey]

21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a [i]stumbling block and to the [j]Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

 

[Charlie24]

No, I am reading the scripture, but you're creating a block to your understanding predestination. You have no answer for any of the scriptures I posted, so you ignore them, many people ignore the scripture. God can desire all people believe and even command it, but only actually save some. Scripturally when people decide for themselves things by leaning on their own understanding, they make bad choices.
No one can know God by human wisdom or understanding. All knowledge of the true Christ to a person comes by revelation alone.

13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”

14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

You're missing it all the way around. It is the hearing of the Gospel that demands a response from man, a yea or nay.

The person is not predestinated, it is the plan of God in which man is saved that's predestined for man.

God in His foreknowledge knows who will accept His plan of salvation, they are the ones who are given to Christ.

 

[MatthewG]

May those who seek to individually seek out God, who created the heavens and earth do so. Be encouraged to seek out God, and though he is completely perplexing, you can learn and grow to know Him by looking and searching the Bible. God is good, God is Love, God is Spirit, and a consuming fire, according to the writer of Hebrews.

While we are here, it’s also an individuals choice to share Jesus Christ, in a mystery but in a way that encouraged other independent individuals to go and read the Bible for themselves and perhaps question and talk about subjects with each other; as faith comes by the hearing of the word, Scott.

 

[MatthewG]

It is nice when teachings produce wonderful Christian men and women of God... Like those who were at our last Sunnyside Pentecostal Holiness church get together!

They are a rootin’ tootin’ band playing church that are Pentecostal Holiness kinda of place called “the gateway”. Two of my friends go there, I went twice time just to surprise a friend by going to see her there one day.

I don’t care much for the music anymore and I know everyone is having a good time doing their own thing. I also didn’t care to hear, what the preacher had to say very much but I respect him completely. While he kept hollering about Jesus Christ, and then Holy Spirit at some point I said can I share something as well? I’m not sure if you’re looking for someone to join in and share something from the Bible or not?

Needless to say I don’t care much for church anymore, not just because of that experience but because of presentation that could be more useful, like looking and reading and learning the boring old Bible that was only read maybe twice out of a holler for Jesus charade, but I don’t judge their salvation; just that things could be done better in my opinion? And music doesn’t have to go on forever.

 

[MatthewG]

@Scott Downey i don’t care about predestination all that much, to me it’s simply really keeping faith and having a relationship with God that is important. Jesus done everything and has had victory already.
People who believe in Him are no longer his creation, but a child of God or a son or daughter. I do agree with you that those who look to God, he becomes their salvation.

Psalm 62:2
Truly he is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.

Ps: I know I'll have to do a study if I get there teaching again, as predestined is a big subject anyway looking at from how it’s taught.

 

[rockytopva]

They are a rootin’ tootin’ band playing church that are Pentecostal Holiness kinda of place called “the gateway”. Two of my friends go there, I went twice time just to surprise a friend by going to see her there one day.

I don’t care much for the music anymore and I know everyone is having a good time doing their own thing. I also didn’t care to hear, what the preacher had to say very much but I respect him completely. While he kept hollering about Jesus Christ, and then Holy Spirit at some point I said can I share something as well? I’m not sure if you’re looking for someone to join in and share something from the Bible or not?

Needless to say I don’t care much for church anymore, not just because of that experience but because of presentation that could be more useful, like looking and reading and learning the boring old Bible that was only read maybe twice out of a holler for Jesus charade, but I don’t judge their salvation; just that things could be done better in my opinion? And music doesn’t have to go on forever.

I go to a variety of churches and Bible studies in different denominations… As the Apostle said…

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. - Hebrews 10

 

[Enoch111]

That even a person who is teaching from the pulpit, they should be fully trusted?

If that person is properly interpreting and expounding Scripture why not? After all God has given to the Church evangelists, pastors, and teachers. If they are faithful to the Word, then they can be trusted.

 

[MatthewG]

I go to a variety of churches and Bible studies in different denominations… As the Apostle said…

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. - Hebrews 10

Oh that is good. I’m not trying to down play them, but it wasn’t a good experience. The most I’ve ever gotten is out of an actual teaching experience with the use of the Bible.

It’s so highly important for people to be fortified in their faith, and that comes with actual verse by verse study.

So I don’t care where you go to church, people can go wherever they want to, and enjoy the festivities. And I don’t think it’s a commandment I have to adhere to.

The important thing is living a life for God, and seeking for Him, and allowing him to work in and through you while you meet people in life to help those who may in bondage.

Some people take time to work with, and not everyone gets the right attention, or treatment sometimes in church; I just believe there is something far better which is the spirit and in faith you are saved by grace.

 

[MatthewG]

If that person is properly interpreting and expounding Scripture why not? After all God has given to the Church evangelists, pastors, and teachers. If they are faithful to the Word, then they can be trusted.

Don’t know if they could be or not. Some people get up on the stage and just talk. Telling their stories and never really taking a good hard look at the Bible and teaching it.

I have met great people in church building.

It’s always the approach, so if you can find a good church that actually goes through the Bible and makes it to where you can understand it with comparing scripture the scripture and testing all things by the spirit and they allow anyone to come in and hear the word and not mistreat them.


That is the place to go too, in my opinion, no coffee, no emotionalism, no asking for tithes, no membership, anyone is welcome even they are gay; but you can tell it’s fine if they are gay but they ain’t gotta make a big deal, we are here to hear the word and seek out God in spirit and truth.

That is my idea of a good church people coming in hearing the word, and leaving and going on about their lives with some good facts and word of God being spoken to fortify faith.

I don’t care much music but it could be used but not to overly long, cause time is of the essence when you think about; and how often does a person set a Bible down and not read it for awhile? I done it several times in my life but it is hearing of the word that produces faith and fortifies it by the Spirit in trusting God and his promises.

 

[Jack]

"Christianity" is a MESS. Satan sends his messengers to confuse and TWIST the literal Word of God to mean something else. Going to a church to find salvation is a terrible mistake! I.E. Kingdom Hall. Study the Bible folks. Going to church 7 days a week won't save you!

 

[MatthewG]

Hello Jack,

From my perspective its just not enough really digging into the word and doing a study while going through to look at all you can while teaching.

Consider my belief that the devil is defeat, anyone who preaches or teaches out of spite while some out of love, Paul was glad the gospel was spread.

The thing is I never have went to a church who has their congregation going through all the gospels, and looking at history with scripture comparing scripture to really get a fortified view of the Bible.

So there are times people simply put the Bible down, sometimes not even seeking God for days, maybe they pray but do not read the Bible, but if faith comes by hearing the word, or the things in the Bible it is up to individuals to look and seek to read it. And those who need it to be read to them, should get an understanding of what is you believe that is being talked about in the context of the Bible and the subjects it has in it.

While being able to have the choice to reject your own personal view, and perhaps they have their own view.

People can be confused, and people can be set into bondage if all they are taught is do this mission, give to church to fund get togethers and stuff, doesn't nesicaly spend a lot of time of actually reading and hearing which produces faith and fortifies it.

Study can be boring and listening can be boring its not always exciting, but helping people to become free, is what is important, free from the bondage of sin and death - free to overcome this world which is by faith.

To live by the spirit, and die to themselves, renewing their mind which is reasonable service according to Paul.

This is of course my outlook and view when it comes to these things, my opinion.

 

[MatthewG]

Here is the verse by Paul to the Philippians,

1:
Paul's Trials Advance the Gospel
…14And most of the brothers, confident in the Lord by my chains, now dare more greatly to speak the word without fear. 15It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill.16The latter do so in love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel.… 17The former, however, preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can add to the distress of my chains. 18What then is the issue? Just this: that in every way, whether by false motives or true, Christ is preached. And in this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice,…

 

[Rich R]

Please read everything posted before commenting - Thank you ! - Matthew


Firstly,

As per my signature, there is a website link that is a website based on a schooling of teaching on the gospels, and the letters of the Bible. I am not telling anyone to go to it and believe it and trust everything that the person may say on there. The thing is that through organizations or congregations many of the times, the filter of understanding simply comes from mans understanding and no reliance on the Spirit, which is given to us as believers to help understand spiritual things that come in and through filtered by the Bible itself. Be it from the Old Testament and the Apostolic Record (which people called the New Testament).

All through the Bible there are mentions of the things about spiritual things, seeking the Kingdom, seeking in faith which God rewards for those who seek him out in faith.

Does that sound right to you? The thing is the Bible, is needed to explain the spiritual things of what is come by and through after leaving this world, but also what is given while living in this world (such as the Holy Spirit that is given by God through faith in Christ in which one can actually have peace with God even though going through the world they will have struggles - Romans 5:1-10).

What I have found interesting is that people can place human beings as God, as they are the ones from the pulpit who are right, and that anything anyone else may say are wrong, and going against someone who taught you differently.

Does that sound right to you? That even a person who is teaching from the pulpit, they should be fully trusted? As the flesh from the Bible is said to be faulty, in the sense that there is nothing good with-in the flesh. However, can a person who is on a pulpit and teaching, use the Holy Spirit with-in them, and the Spirit of christ with-in them when they explain things as they go line upon line, also checking scripture against scripture?

Can a human being wrong about what they are teaching, and it not line up by and through the spirit? Is it not the spirit, which brings forth truth at least as close as one can get it to?

In the end through odd belief systems taught by organizations through their own 'flesh', we are called to love others by and through Spirit, and to be graceful towards them, and try to share with them the truths of the Bible, but if they reject all one can do is still love them either way, without having to dogmatic on them.

As at the end of the day, I can not judge anyone in what they choose to believe, but can lovingly share by the spirit the truth that has been made known by the scripture, however it is up to them if they will accept the scriptures, by and through hope that the Spirit is leading them to the truth.

What are your thoughts on these things?

I personally say do not believe anything I say, do not believe anything that the person from the www.cult.love website may say, but see what the Bible says, see what history says and the history of what was going on during the Biblical times to see what is truly being said with-in the context and scope via the Bible, and to look and test all things by the Spirit as we are told to do, 1 Thessalonians 5. Go to God in prayer, asking for wisdom and do not doubt him, and may he open up your mind to the spiritual understandings and bless you in the grace and truth that comes from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Lot of good points there. It reminds me of a story in Acts:

Acts 17:10-12,

10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming [thither] went into the synagogue of the Jews.​

​

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.​

​

12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.​

These folks didn't even believe the things that the great Apostle Paul told them without verifying from the actual book. I especially like verse 12 where we see the result of them having done their own research. Believing God can only lead to good things!

 

[ScottA]

Please read everything posted before commenting - Thank you ! - Matthew


Firstly,

As per my signature, there is a website link that is a website based on a schooling of teaching on the gospels, and the letters of the Bible. I am not telling anyone to go to it and believe it and trust everything that the person may say on there. The thing is that through organizations or congregations many of the times, the filter of understanding simply comes from mans understanding and no reliance on the Spirit, which is given to us as believers to help understand spiritual things that come in and through filtered by the Bible itself. Be it from the Old Testament and the Apostolic Record (which people called the New Testament).

All through the Bible there are mentions of the things about spiritual things, seeking the Kingdom, seeking in faith which God rewards for those who seek him out in faith.

Does that sound right to you? The thing is the Bible, is needed to explain the spiritual things of what is come by and through after leaving this world, but also what is given while living in this world (such as the Holy Spirit that is given by God through faith in Christ in which one can actually have peace with God even though going through the world they will have struggles - Romans 5:1-10).

What I have found interesting is that people can place human beings as God, as they are the ones from the pulpit who are right, and that anything anyone else may say are wrong, and going against someone who taught you differently.

Does that sound right to you? That even a person who is teaching from the pulpit, they should be fully trusted? As the flesh from the Bible is said to be faulty, in the sense that there is nothing good with-in the flesh. However, can a person who is on a pulpit and teaching, use the Holy Spirit with-in them, and the Spirit of christ with-in them when they explain things as they go line upon line, also checking scripture against scripture?

Can a human being wrong about what they are teaching, and it not line up by and through the spirit? Is it not the spirit, which brings forth truth at least as close as one can get it to?

In the end through odd belief systems taught by organizations through their own 'flesh', we are called to love others by and through Spirit, and to be graceful towards them, and try to share with them the truths of the Bible, but if they reject all one can do is still love them either way, without having to dogmatic on them.

As at the end of the day, I can not judge anyone in what they choose to believe, but can lovingly share by the spirit the truth that has been made known by the scripture, however it is up to them if they will accept the scriptures, by and through hope that the Spirit is leading them to the truth.

What are your thoughts on these things?

I personally say do not believe anything I say, do not believe anything that the person from the www.cult.love website may say, but see what the Bible says, see what history says and the history of what was going on during the Biblical times to see what is truly being said with-in the context and scope via the Bible, and to look and test all things by the Spirit as we are told to do, 1 Thessalonians 5. Go to God in prayer, asking for wisdom and do not doubt him, and may he open up your mind to the spiritual understandings and bless you in the grace and truth that comes from the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is an interesting fallacy that the scriptures are the end-all test, which many do and believe resulting in arguments of interpretations. But rather, as it is written "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." Thus, there is no question as whether the scriptures are true--they are, for they are from God. But rather, the scriptures must be "spiritually discerned" that the natural man should not be of any authority regarding what is written. This is what is meant by the word given to the Bride of Christ (as if women) that "women should be silent in church"--that only the Spirit should speak.

It is also a common misunderstanding that all who have received the Lord equally have the Holy Spirit working in them. But rather as it is written, "Take heed what you hear. With the same measure you use, it will be measured to you; and to you who hear, more will be given" and that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are different for different people, as "He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ."

So, it is wise not to assume that one of title or boldness, saying "It is so..." regarding the meaning and understanding of the scriptures, is not that test which was given. But rather, that by all means, the word of all who make claims be tested, by scripture, by the spirit, and with prayer. Even the counsel of others is not to be trusted, as the majority among God's people is often wrong, as many were even wrong regarding Christ while in His presence. Thus the warning from Christ saying, “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore do not go after them." Which is good advice for any topic, as we have also been warned that these times would be subject to many "false teachers" and the "lie" that brings "strong delusion."

The good news is that Christ also promised that these would be times of being lead "unto all truth" which even the apostles "could not bear" in times past. So...it is also important not to categorically dismiss all of what comes.

 

[Earburner]

To me I believe it’s Jesus who brings forth freedom in truth, to be set free from the bondage of sin and death : though our flesh does fail from time to time; but we are given the ability to now live by the spirit.

Rom. 16:17-18
"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."


Isn’t it all about serving the Lord Jesus and having him be the answer to a fallen world we live in and he brings forth new life by the

Hi Mattew G., do you still not want to discuss the Binitarian-Amillennial view?

In Christian love, Earburner