The Olivet Discourse

[Jay Ross]

Judges 1:16 "And the children of the Kenite, Moses' father in law, went up out of the city of palm trees with the children of Judah into the wilderness of Judah, which lieth in the south of Arad; and they went and dwelt among the People."

We have to stop here and get something straight in our mind. First of all, Moses' father-in-law is not a Kenite, a descendent of Cain [Kenite] but he and his family lived in the land where the Kenites were, and he held the position of "Jethro" or leader there. We can find Moses' father-in-law's name written in Numbers 10:29; "And Moses said unto Hobab, the son of Raguel the Midianite, Moses' father in law, "We are journeying unto the place of which the Lord said, I will give it you: come thou with us, and we will do thee good: for the Lord hath spoken good concerning Israel."

Moses' father in law's name was "Raquel", and not Jethro, which is a title. He was a Midianite priest, and being a Midianite priest he had to be of the lineage Midian who was from the lineage of Abraham by Abraham's second wife. This is of the same bloodline as Abraham, and not of Cain, [the Kenites]. Abraham took Keturah to be his second wife after Sarah had died, and Isaac and Ishmael had left Abraham's household.

Genesis 25:1 "Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah."

Genesis 25:2 "And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah."

The "Midianites" believed in the one true God, the same as Abraham. So we see that the promises that were given to the family of Raquel, the father in law of Moses, were given by God as a covenant to Raquel and his family, that they would live and dwell with the Children of Israel, not only in the wilderness, but would have their inheritance in the promised land also. Though this family is not Kenite by lineage, they are Kenite by the fact that they lived in the land where the Kenites dwelt.

A Chinese person can move to the United States and become an American. It doesn't change his lineage, but his identity as to where he lives. When a Kenite [the offspring of Cain from the garden of Eden] moved to the land of Judah, by lineage he is still a Kenite in tradition and custom, and in his skin color, even though he then becomes a Jew by the identity of his residence. Requel had to be full blooded Midianite to be a Midianite priest, and it was for this reason that Requel's daughters had to wait until after all of the Kenites had their fill of water, before they could fill their water pots to water their sheep.

judges1

Your post was a cut and paste of a book found on the internet with the following limitations: -


The

BOOK OF JUDGES

"Conquests. Israel and Other Nations."

"By Judah [1-21], By House of Joseph [22-36]."

This Bible Study is written by Roger Christopherson, and it's transcription is provided by theseason.org


PLEASE NOTE: These studies may be stored on your private computer as a library, printed out in single copy (or you may print enough for a study group) for private study purposes provided the Author and Source are included with each and every excerpt or copy.



These studies may not be reproduced collectively ONLINE , or in successive part, on any WEBSITE, EMAIL LIST or PUBLIC ELECTRONIC LIBRARY without expressed written consent.



©2000 theseason.org Webmaster

What you cut and pasted is far more out of left field than is acceptable in my humble opinion.

The understanding expressed was missing the point of what I had written.

Shalom

 

[n2thelight]

Your post was a cut and paste of a book found on the internet with the following limitations: -


The

BOOK OF JUDGES

"Conquests. Israel and Other Nations."

"By Judah [1-21], By House of Joseph [22-36]."

This Bible Study is written by Roger Christopherson, and it's transcription is provided by theseason.org


PLEASE NOTE: These studies may be stored on your private computer as a library, printed out in single copy (or you may print enough for a study group) for private study purposes provided the Author and Source are included with each and every excerpt or copy.



These studies may not be reproduced collectively ONLINE , or in successive part, on any WEBSITE, EMAIL LIST or PUBLIC ELECTRONIC LIBRARY without expressed written consent.



©2000 theseason.org Webmaster

What you cut and pasted is far more out of left field than is acceptable in my humble opinion.

The understanding expressed was missing the point of what I had written.

Shalom

I know what it was,that's why I provided the link....So because I didn't do it right you don't agree?That's a cop out to me,do you,Im good!!!!!!

 

[Jay Ross]

I know what it was,that's why I provided the link....So because I didn't do it right you don't agree?That's a cop out to me,do you,Im good!!!!!!

Tried to find out more on the author of that particular book but did not get too far.

 

[Stranger]

Like Jesus said to the unbelieving Jews in John 8...

John 8:56
56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad."
KJV

Jesus appeared to Abraham in the Old Testament as the Angel of The Lord, and as Melchisedec. You also need to study Hebrews 11 more carefully, and especially note Jude that quotes Enoch, the 7th from Adam, who prophesied of Christ's second coming...

Jude 14-15
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.
KJV

How could Enoch prophesy of Christ's SECOND COMING if he did not know about Jesus and The Gospel?

The OT Scripture evidence, especially with Abraham and what Paul said in Galatians 3, reveals that the Patriarchs DID... know about The Gospel of Jesus Christ, only that they did not live in the time when Jesus would come to die on the cross. David knew, because God gave him to prophesy about Christ's crucifixtion in Psalms 22. Isaiah knew, because God gave him to prophesy of Jesus in Isaiah 7 & 9, and of His crucifixion also in Isaiah 53. Zechariah knew, because he was given to prophesy of both Christ's first coming and His second coming in Zechariah 9, and about Jesus being pierced in Zechariah 12.

Even this is a New Testament declaration of what the OT prophets knew...

1 Peter 1:8-11
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in Whom, though now ye see Him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
KJV

That God gave to Abraham a vision or understanding of the coming of Messiah does not translate into Abraham believing on Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour. He simply believed God concerning the promise of a son.

Again, Melchisedec was not Jesus Christ. He was a real person, but a type of Christ.

Enoch gave a prophecy of the Second Coming. Again, that doesn't translate into the gospel that he believed being the New Testament Gospel.

The Old Testament prophets knew only of the terms for Messiah used in the Old Testament. And their prophecies named Him accordingly. The Servant, The Lamb, The Anointed, The King, etc. etc. They knew nothing of accepting Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.

Just because Jesus Christ is found throughout the Old Testament, does not mean that everone who lived in the Old Testament time knew the New Testament Gospel. They did not. They believed what ever it was God expected them to believe at that time to identify them as believers and impute righteousness to them.

Stranger

 

[Davy]

That God gave to Abraham a vision or understanding of the coming of Messiah does not translate into Abraham believing on Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour. He simply believed God concerning the promise of a son.

Again, Melchisedec was not Jesus Christ. He was a real person, but a type of Christ.

Enoch gave a prophecy of the Second Coming. Again, that doesn't translate into the gospel that he believed being the New Testament Gospel.

The Old Testament prophets knew only of the terms for Messiah used in the Old Testament. And their prophecies named Him accordingly. The Servant, The Lamb, The Anointed, The King, etc. etc. They knew nothing of accepting Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.

Just because Jesus Christ is found throughout the Old Testament, does not mean that everone who lived in the Old Testament time knew the New Testament Gospel. They did not. They believed what ever it was God expected them to believe at that time to identify them as believers and impute righteousness to them.

Stranger

I'm sorry that what Apostle Paul taught about the gospel being preached to Abraham goes against your Jewish traditions.

But The Gospel of Jesus Christ is what Abraham believed, as that is what the Promise by Faith is about, even as Apostle Paul showed in that Galatians 3 chapter.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ began to be mentioned first in the Old Testament Books, especially the prophets as I have already shown. And with Enoch prophesying of Christ's second coming with His saints, that shows early on that God chose some that would know even all the way back to Enoch, the seventh from the man Adam (Jude 1).

Because the rest of men, and rest of Israel, were rebellious, they did not understand The Gospel that was preached to Abraham. Like Isaiah said, "Who hath believed our report?" (Isa.53:1; Romans 10:16).

Melchisedec was Jesus Christ in the Old Testament times that met Abraham. That may go against your Jewish tradition, but it is what Scripture declares. Hebrews 7 reveals the one being spoken of there is Jesus Who was born of the tribe of Judah:

Heb 7:13-14
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
KJV

 

[Stranger]

I'm sorry that what Apostle Paul taught about the gospel being preached to Abraham goes against your Jewish traditions.

But The Gospel of Jesus Christ is what Abraham believed, as that is what the Promise by Faith is about, even as Apostle Paul showed in that Galatians 3 chapter.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ began to be mentioned first in the Old Testament Books, especially the prophets as I have already shown. And with Enoch prophesying of Christ's second coming with His saints, that shows early on that God chose some that would know even all the way back to Enoch, the seventh from the man Adam (Jude 1).

Because the rest of men, and rest of Israel, were rebellious, they did not understand The Gospel that was preached to Abraham. Like Isaiah said, "Who hath believed our report?" (Isa.53:1; Romans 10:16).

Melchisedec was Jesus Christ in the Old Testament times that met Abraham. That may go against your Jewish tradition, but it is what Scripture declares. Hebrews 7 reveals the one being spoken of there is Jesus Who was born of the tribe of Judah:

Heb 7:13-14
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
KJV

What did Abraham believe that caused righteousness to be imputed to him from God?

Prophesying of the Second Coming of Christ is not the Gospel.

(Heb. 7:3) "Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither bginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God;" Note its 'like unto the Son of God'. Not 'is' the Son of God.

Stranger

 

[Davy]

What did Abraham believe that caused righteousness to be imputed to him from God?

Prophesying of the Second Coming of Christ is not the Gospel.

(Heb. 7:3) "Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither bginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God;" Note its 'like unto the Son of God'. Not 'is' the Son of God.

Stranger

1 Peter 1:8-11
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in Whom, though now ye see Him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

10 Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
KJV

I already showed you. If you think Enoch didn't know about The Gospel when he prophesied of Jesus' 2nd coming, then Peter gives emphatic proof above that the prophets knew, and I referred you to some of those Old Testament scripture proofs. So why do you sew strife against The Word of God?

 

[Stranger]

1 Peter 1:8-11
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in Whom, though now ye see Him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

10 Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
KJV

I already showed you. If you think Enoch didn't know about The Gospel when he prophesied of Jesus' 2nd coming, then Peter gives emphatic proof above that the prophets knew, and I referred you to some of those Old Testament scripture proofs. So why do you sew strife against The Word of God?

What did Abraham believe that caused righteousness to be imputed to him by God?

Again, the Second Coming is not the Gospel. And Enoch did not declare the Gospel.

Prophecies of the First and Second Coming by Peter are not the Gospel.

Stranger

 

[Davy]

What did Abraham believe that caused righteousness to be imputed to him by God?

Again, the Second Coming is not the Gospel. And Enoch did not declare the Gospel.

Prophecies of the First and Second Coming by Peter are not the Gospel.

Stranger

Yet you steer clear of Psalms 22 and Isaiah 53 which I pointed to. All you're trying to do is create an irrelevant argument point so as to appear to win a debate. I'm not debating. I showed you from Scripture which you steer around.

 

[Stranger]

Yet you steer clear of Psalms 22 and Isaiah 53 which I pointed to. All you're trying to do is create an irrelevant argument point so as to appear to win a debate. I'm not debating. I showed you from Scripture which you steer around.

If your afraid to answer my question, then I wouldn't call it irrelevant.

What about (Ps. 22) and (Is. 53)?

Stranger

 

[Davy]

If your afraid to answer my question, then I wouldn't call it irrelevant.

What about (Ps. 22) and (Is. 53)?

Stranger

You are the one who is afraid, so afraid of what is contained in those Psalms 22 and Isaiah 53 Scriptures that you have to act like they are insignificant.

Do you really... think there's a lot of folks here actually hanging on your words, that you have to make up that question you just asked? I guarantee you, there's hardly any here listening to your subversive bent.

 

[Stranger]

You are the one who is afraid, so afraid of what is contained in those Psalms 22 and Isaiah 53 Scriptures that you have to act like they are insignificant.

Do you really... think there's a lot of folks here actually hanging on your words, that you have to make up that question you just asked? I guarantee you, there's hardly any here listening to your subversive bent.

Since you won't answer the question then it is not irrelevant. It is totally relevant else you would answer it. What did Abraham believe that caused righteousness to be imputed to him by God? The answer will correct your claim that Abraham was believing the New Tesament Gospel.

(Ps. 22) is a great chapter in the Bible. What is there to fear in it? (Is. 53) is a great chapter in the Bible. What is there to fear in it? Nothing.

Your listening...and struggling.

Stranger

 

[Davy]

Since you won't answer the question then it is not irrelevant. It is totally relevant else you would answer it. What did Abraham believe that caused righteousness to be imputed to him by God? The answer will correct your claim that Abraham was believing the New Tesament Gospel.

(Ps. 22) is a great chapter in the Bible. What is there to fear in it? (Is. 53) is a great chapter in the Bible. What is there to fear in it? Nothing.

Your listening...and struggling.

Stranger

IT IS YOU THAT REFUSES TO ANSWER ABOUT THOSE OT SCRIPTURE EVIDENCES OF THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST, SHOWING EVENTS OF JESUS' CRUCIFIXION LONG BEFORE IT HAPPENED.

YOUR OBSTINANCE HAS EARNED YOU A PLACE ON MY IGNORE LIST.

 

[Stranger]

IT IS YOU THAT REFUSES TO ANSWER ABOUT THOSE OT SCRIPTURE EVIDENCES OF THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST, SHOWING EVENTS OF JESUS' CRUCIFIXION LONG BEFORE IT HAPPENED.

YOUR OBSTINANCE HAS EARNED YOU A PLACE ON MY IGNORE LIST.

Prophecies of the Coming Messiah are not the New Testament Gospel. They prophecy of the events that are necessary to occur in order to create and implement a New Testament Gospel. I answered this before.

But your 'ignoring' doesn't stop me from writing.

Stranger