The one who is still to come

[Matthias]

I used Google search a minute ago using “Jesus of Nazareth is a Jewish monotheist” and AI overview offered me this:

“Yes, Jesus of Nazareth is widely considered a Jewish monotheist by scholars and many religious perspectives. He adhered to the Jewish faith of his time, including the belief in one God. While Christianity later developed different interpretations of Jesus’s nature and relationship with God, his life and teachings were rooted in Jewish tradition and belief in the one God of Israel.”

We shouldn’t allow AI to do our thinking for us, but it is the Jewish identity of Jesus that has to be dismantled if we are to maintain that the premise (“Jesus is a Jewish monotheist”) is wrong.

Trinitarian scholarship wisely concedes the point.

 

[Matthias]

For trinitarians who don’t see that it is the Father who is speaking in Revelation 1:8 - where do you see the Father speaking in the Bible?

 

[David in NJ]

Hello David...
Well first off, what has your post to do with my commentary post of Rev 1:8? I do not see your post speaking to it at all. You have switch gears on me and have dug up something that makes sense to you although not to me.

I see you are possessed by the term Elohim as your catch word and maybe your touchstone for who is your God. I really do not know.

What you think is the meaning of Elohim is your conjecture or hypothesis. There is no scripture support that says Elohim means exactly the 3 persons of your choice, your God. In fact its use in the Hebrew Torah when Elohim is used explicitly as a plural, always means either an amplification of who God is; supreme and almighty or a part of his Heavenly state/Kingdom and those residing there.
Saying it another way, while the term Elohim is grammatically plural, it is frequently treated as singular in Hebrew grammar, a phenomenon known as the honorific plural or pluralis majestatis.

Elohim is used over 2500 times in the Hebrew text. Now are we to believe that every time we read each Elohim where found in scripture, we are to know this is code for your 3 persons God?

This identical word Elohim in Tanach refers to Moses as well? Regarding Moses, the Torah says,
The Lord said to Moses, “See, I have made thee a god אֶלהִים, (Elohim) to Pharaoh, and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.”(Exodus 7:1 KJV)​

Something to seriously ponder on...Now is Moses consisting of 3 persons?

Well first off, what has your post to do with my commentary post of Rev 1:8?
I do not see your post speaking to it at all. = There is your answer

You do not SEE = "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness"

You do not SEE = Elohim is Plural = 3

You do not SEE = GOSPEL = 3 = Matthew 3:16-17 , John 14:15-18

 

[David in NJ]

For trinitarians who don’t see that it is the Father who is speaking in Revelation 1:8 - where do you see the Father speaking in the Bible?

Did the Lord lie???

And the One having sent Me, the Father Himself, has borne witness concerning Me.
You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor have you seen His form. - John 5:37

 

[JustMe]

Well first off, what has your post to do with my commentary post of Rev 1:8?
I do not see your post speaking to it at all. = There is your answer

You do not SEE = "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness"

You do not SEE = Elohim is Plural = 3

You do not SEE = GOSPEL = 3 = Matthew 3:16-17 , John 14:15-18

I would not get offended in what you cannot see. You have made no sense at all. And I wonder if you really cared or not.

 

[Matthias]

Did the Lord lie???

No.

And the One having sent Me, the Father Himself, has borne witness concerning Me.
You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor have you seen His form. - John 5:37

You’ve introduced Jesus as a witness. Is he testifying for them or against them?

 

[MatthewG]

@ScottA,

I am sorry to make you sad, but man I just don't get were some people get things, or want to be vague, and etc...

Its alright if people dont really care.

 

[ScottA]

@ScottA,

I am sorry to make you sad, but man I just don't get were some people get things, or want to be vague, and etc...

Its alright if people dont really care.

My only response to your comment was sadness, because in spite of me, I only explained what is not mine, but what is written...and you did not see it and blamed me for being open and transparent about it, when though I may appear to be vague out of humility, I have every reason to be more than bold.

 

[MatthewG]

My only response to your comment was sadness, because in spite of me, I only explained what is not mine, but what is written...and you did not see it and blamed me for being open and transparent about it, when though I may appear to be vague out of humility, I have every reason to be more than bold.

Right. You gotta remember what Jesus said about certain things in my opinion. Jesus said people love to boast in themselves, and be seen in the marketplaces.

That was how you came off from your response and thats why I said what I did... cause I just don't see it helpful by any means.



Im not a trinity Guy.
I don't believe in it.
I don't even accept it with in my venacular.

I just believe that Yahavah, is my Father. And The Holy Spirit is part of my heart, which God gives too all those who are his *I don't see you as not a believer or not of Gods*, and I believe on the the Lord Jesus and his name.
I believe the one that sits on the throne of with the Father today, is Jesus.
They form together "LORD GOD ALMIGHTY."

Isaiah 9:6
6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Daniel 10
4 On the twenty-fourth day of the first month, as I was standing on the bank of the great river, the Tigris, 5 I looked up and there before me was a man dressed in linen, with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist. 6 His body was like topaz, his face like lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and his voice like the sound of a multitude.

7 I, Daniel, was the only one who saw the vision; those who were with me did not see it, but such terror overwhelmed them that they fled and hid themselves. 8 So I was left alone, gazing at this great vision; I had no strength left, my face turned deathly pale and I was helpless. 9 Then I heard him speaking


@Matthias I also don't see where we different on "preexistence." I don't see Jesus as Jesus in the beginning nor do I see three people, but you do see three aspects of Yahavah.

You have Yahavah, Yahavahs Word, and Yahavah's Holy Spirit all at the start when you read from Genesis.

 

[Matthias]

@Matthias I also don't see where we different on "preexistence."

I know you don’t.

I don't see Jesus as Jesus in the beginning ….

I do.

 

[MatthewG]

I know you don’t.



I do.

The scriptures (Old Testament) speak of Jesus, but that doesn't make the WORD ( the physical Jesus) that came later... Which was the Word born flesh named Jesus later...

Can we just be honest here?

Or can you explain to me how you do, and how I dont?

Actually Ive tired myself to the point, who cares what people think... why does it matter so much.

 

[Matthias]

The scriptures (Old Testament) speak of Jesus, but that doesn't make the WORD the physical JEsus that came later... Can we just be honest here?

There has never been a moment when I haven’t been honest with you.

When someone doesn’t understand scripture the same way that I do, I don’t assume that they are being dishonest with me.

 

[MatthewG]

There has never been a moment when I haven’t been honest with you.

Thanks Matt. Im to the point I don't care anymore. Discussion sucks. Rather boring, I don't care now.

 

[Matthias]

Thanks Matt. Im to the point I don't care anymore. Discussion sucks. Rather boring, I don't care now.

Then why are you having discussions here?

You feel about discussion the way I feel about debate. I don’t debate anymore.

 

[MatthewG]

Then why are you having discussions here?

It sucks trying to talk to you. Im out the thread. See ya.

 

[Matthias]

It sucks trying to talk to you. Im out the thread. See ya.

Thanks for the clarification. You need to find someone who communicates the way that you want them to. You should be able to do that here.

For your own sake, don’t see me again.

 

[talons]

In this case, John may be speaking for Jesus speaking for The Father. Chain of command.

So the case may be that the Father and the Son are speaking in tandem here in Rev 1:8 , that works for me but others in this thread may not agree .

 

[MatthewG]

So the case may be that the Father and the Son are speaking in tandem here in Rev 1:8 , that works for me but others in this thread may not agree .

That makes a case for three people seeing the same thing. I'm glad to see other people actually can see this for what it is.