The Only True God, the God of Jesus Christ.

[Wrangler]

BTW the word bible isn’t in the Bible, either.

But the three in one Godhead, is found in it.

Assert what is not there all you want. I'll stick to what is there. God, in his unitarian nature, raised Jesus from the dead. It is delusional to pretend the verse merely says Father.

 

[JunChosen]

Regarding carnal things and spiritual understanding, I understand there is no reason or excuse to violate the 1C or the Sh'ma. God, the Father, alone is the one true God almighty. Jesus said this in John 17:3, separating himself as a different being from the one True God, his Father.

Note that you said: "the Father alone is the one true God almighty," yet that is not what the verse is saying. You have the bad habit of adding and taking away words from Scripture which is a violation of Revelation 22:18-19. Plus when you add or take away words you change the meaning of the verse as in this case, John 17:3.

But Jesus also said in John 17:5
"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thy own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

Have you done a study on Deuteronomy 6:4 which has the same idea as John 17:3? Explain/expound and prove us wrong.

To God Be The Glory

 

[APAK]

Note that you said: "the Father alone is the one true God almighty," yet that is not what the verse is saying. You have the bad habit of adding and taking away words from Scripture which is a violation of Revelation 22:18-19. Plus when you add or take away words you change the meaning of the verse as in this case, John 17:3.

But Jesus also said in John 17:5
"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thy own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

Have you done a study on Deuteronomy 6:4 which has the same idea as John 17:3? Explain/expound and prove us wrong.

To God Be The Glory

So what exactly is John 17:3 and 5 saying?

 

[JunChosen]

So what exactly is John 17:3 and 5 saying?

To borrow Jesus' words to Nicodemus: "Art thou a master/teacher and knowest not these things?

To God Be The Glory

 

[APAK]

To borrow Jesus' words to Nicodemus: "Art thou a master/teacher and knowest not these things?

To God Be The Glory

I see, you can dish it out very well and cannot receive it. One of those that do not edify or meaningfully contribute. Only to sow discord.

 

[keithr]

Note that you said: "the Father alone is the one true God almighty," yet that is not what the verse is saying.

Actually it is saying that! You need to start at verse 1. Jesus was speaking to his Father, so in verse 3 when he says "you, the only true God" he is effectively saying, "Father, you are the only true God":

1) Jesus said these things, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said, “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may also glorify you;
2) even as you gave him authority over all flesh, so he will give eternal life to all whom you have given him.
3) This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.​

 

[JunChosen]

Addressing @APAK, @keithr, and @Wrangler,

Actually it is saying that! You need to start at verse 1. Jesus was speaking to his Father, so in verse 3 when he says "you, the only true God" he is effectively saying, "Father, you are the only true God":

Perhaps I should have written my response to @Wrangler thus: "Note that you said: "the Father alone is the one true God almighty, yet that is not what the verse is saying [have stipulated] is the better term.

Please note the bold word "alone" to emphasize it is NOT in the original manuscript. Hence the reason I brought up Revelation 22:18-19 to warn @Wrangler of his free reign to add and take away from the word of God.

Plus, when we add or take away a word from Scripture, the meaning and context changes as in this case, John 17:3.

This is the reason I prefer Deuteronomy 6:4 where the English and Hebrew are more pronounced and can easily be explained.

I hope this helps. If you have further questions please ask.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Wrangler]

Perhaps I should have written my response to @Wrangler thus: "Note that you said: "the Father alone is the one true God almighty, yet that is not what the verse is saying [have stipulated] is the better term.

Please note the bold word "alone" to emphasize it is NOT in the original manuscript.

Alone is in the VOICE translation. And
Joel 2:27 says the same thing with ‘and there is no other.’

Moses: 4 Listen, Israel! The Eternal is our True God—He alone.

 

[Wrangler]

If you have further questions please ask.

I have no questions. Jesus is not God. There are 1,000’s of proofs with the biggest one being that Jesus died and the Bible says that God (in his unitarian nature) raised Jesus from the dead.

 

[keithr]

Perhaps I should have written my response to @Wrangler thus: "Note that you said: "the Father alone is the one true God almighty, yet that is not what the verse is saying [have stipulated] is the better term.

Please note the bold word "alone" to emphasize it is NOT in the original manuscript.

If someone was to say "You should listen to Biden, the only true President of the United States of America", then I would interpret that to mean that Biden alone was the President. If there are other people claiming to be President then from what was said I would conclude that they were not the true president, and that Biden alone was. So I don't think that Wrangler was changing the meaning of the verse.

In the John 17:3 phrase "the only true God", the Greek word that is translated as "only" is 'monos', which means remaining, i.e. solo or single. It occurs 47 times in the New Testament and is translated in the KJV as 'only' 24 times, and as 'alone' 21 times (and 'themselves' twice). So translating it as "you alone are the true God" is a perfectly valid translation, and is not adding to or subtracting from the Scriptures.

An example of monos being translated as alone is Matthew 14:23, "And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone".

 

[robert derrick]

"I do not know what you are talking about here Curtis. And what does this mean "therefore that rock (I guess the real rock in the desert with Moses?) is unequivocally the rock spoken of in the NT." What?! Explain yourself more clearly please. How did you conclude this? Did Moses strike Christ the spiritual Rock, because that's what it sounds like you are saying here?....no kidding"

Once again, the carnal mind at work. Can't take Scripture literally pertaining to the things of the Spirit, such as that rock out of which came water being that Rock Christ, that they drank from.

And since it is physically impossible for water to come out of physical rock, then it was all symbolic, and they really just drank the sweat they rung out of their garments.

 

[robert derrick]

"BY THE WAY, Jesus UNEQUIVOCALLY said He would resurrect Himself from the dead"

"Right. Same as me UNEQUIVOCALLY saying I would get my wife a cup of coffee. It does not change the fact that someone else actually got my wife coffee or someone else actually raised Jesus from the dead. I know you do not want to discern the difference."

So, Jesus said He would get Himself a cup of coffee, and when he did, someone else actually got it for Him.

So, there is no reality here.

Or, you say you will get your wife a cup of coffee, but someone else actually did it.

So you lied.

 

[Wrangler]

And since it is physically impossible for water to come out of physical rock, then it was all symbolic, and they really just drank the sweat they rung out of their garments.

Did Jesus refer to his Father as the one True God or not?

 

[Wrangler]

Or, you say you will get your wife a cup of coffee, but someone else actually did it.

So you lied.

Not a lie. Intent v actual reality of what happened.

It's just silly to pretend what Jesus said his intent would be ought to supersede that another Being actually raised him from the dead.

 

[JunChosen]

I have no questions. Jesus is not God. There are 1,000’s of proofs with the biggest one being that Jesus died and the Bible says that God (in his unitarian nature) raised Jesus from the dead.

If you truly believe that Jesus IS NOT GOD, you will die in your sins!!!
John 10:24 reads:
"I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I AM He, ye shall die in your sins."

Here Jesus is definitely saying that He is the GREAT "I AM" [attributed to God alone]
and He claims to be God Almighty also.

To God Be The Glory

 

[robert derrick]

"BY THE WAY, Jesus UNEQUIVOCALLY said He would resurrect Himself from the dead"

"Right. Same as me UNEQUIVOCALLY saying I would get my wife a cup of coffee. It does not change the fact that someone else actually got my wife coffee or someone else actually raised Jesus from the dead. I know you do not want to discern the difference."

So, Jesus said He would get Himself a cup of coffee, and when he did, someone else actually got it for Him.

"It's just silly to pretend what Jesus said his intent would be ought to supersede that another Being actually raised him from the dead."

So Jesus lied. Or was deceived.

Make Him just a man made by another god, and he becomes just like other men.

"Honey, I thought you said you were going to get me some coffee? Oh no, don't be silly. I just intended to."

 

[robert derrick]

"Did Jesus refer to his Father as the one True God or not?"

No, He called Him the only true God, the only One in heaven, while the Son and true God was upon earth. Before the Son came down out of heaven, they had been One in heaven from everlasting. And now, having returned to heaven, the Son and the Father are once again One for everlasting in heaven.

The One and Only true God is a false construct of unitarians that reject the true God coming down out of heaven of His own volition and power,
and returning to heaven the same, only now a resurrected Man Christ Jesus in heaven once again with the Father.

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

The Son did not come from man, but as a man He came from heaven. He was the 2nd Adam, because He had the uncorrupted blood within Himself on earth, even as Adam had from God. Being the 2nd Adam was not because He came from man.

 

[robert derrick]

"Did Jesus refer to his Father as the one True God or not?"

Scripture does say there is only One Saviour:

"To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen." (Jude 1)

And that Saviour is our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ:

"To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour." (Titus 1:4)

Our Saviour is the One who shed His blood on the cross, by which we are redeemed and saved. The work of redemption was the shedding of blood, by which only there is remission of sins.

The Son is the Only Saviour who had the uncorrupted blood on earth to shed for us, not the Father. The Father has never had man's blood on earth and never shed blood on earth.

Those who trust in the Father as Saviour are without forgiveness of sins in the blood of the Lamb. But since they likewise say the blood is only symbolic, then so would any forgiveness and salvation be symbolic only.

 

[JunChosen]

Did Jesus refer to his Father as the one True God or not?

Yes He did, but in the same instance, we know that God is a jealous God and that He will NOT share His GLORY with anyone.

Yet in John 17:5 Jesus claimed: "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thy own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

Amazing how Scripture defines itself in relation to the Godhead, that is to the Trinity.

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

Those who trust in the Father as Saviour are without forgiveness of sins in the blood of the Lamb. But since they likewise say the blood is only symbolic, then so would any forgiveness and salvation be symbolic only.

"Those who trust in the Father as Saviour are without forgiveness of sins" is a false statement, of course.

Isaiah 43:11 reads:
"I, EVEN I, AM THE LORD; AND BESIDE ME THERE IS NO SAVIOUR."

To God Be The Glory