The Other Sheep;

[bbyrd009]

I don't wish to continue this argument since it is going no where.

oh, on the contrary, imo it was very clarifying, and i appreciate the exchange. I understand that this is an easy concept to grasp, occluded by preachers selling a wildly successful product, making it an impossible concept to grasp, and requiring the nullification of vast amounts of Scripture, entire Books, as you are doing right now, wadr.

The fact that we are Christians...New Covenant ...I thought meant we believed in the NT writings. Yet it seems some would discredit about 80% of it.

Try telling your kids that they can do as they like, and all their sins, past and future--because after all the present is completely disregarded here, as is the point i guess--are forgiven lol, and see how they interpret that.

 

[bbyrd009]

I will believe what I believe and you will believe what you believe. Fine with me.

note that regardless of our beliefs in the matter, we will both be judged for our works, unless the Bible is lying to us, and not just your preacher.

 

[bbyrd009]

the fire, it burns, does it not? lol

if you believe you have something else pertinent to say, please go ahead, i'll leave you the final word here
the truth, whatever it is, does not need me to help it i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

One of the sections of Scripture that clearly reveals Jesus’ teaching on law and grace is the one in which an adulteress was dragged before Him to see if He would pronounce the penalty upon her demanded by the law—death by stoning (John 8:1-11). Silent at first, He only wrote something in the dust with His finger. Pressed by the accusers to make a judgment, He told them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first” (grace was His not giving the woman what she deserved for the way she had behaved.

What did Jesus teach about law? This, too, is revealed in the above account. He did not say to the woman that she was free to carry on as before, as if she hadn’t been pardoned. He wanted her to change her way of living—to repent. Essentially, He said, “Now, go behave yourself.” Law and Grace: Jesus vs. Paul?

 

[bbyrd009]

Don't you understand that a child of God will not be judged on his/her works.

i remember this heresy from my church, religious days, but i forget what verse is quoted to support this, you might quote it and we will see i guess. I notice google can't figure it out either,

a child of God will not be judged on his/her works - Google Search

 

[Helen]

One of the sections of Scripture that clearly reveals Jesus’ teaching on law and grace is the one in which an adulteress was dragged before Him to see if He would pronounce the penalty upon her demanded by the law—death by stoning (John 8:1-11). Silent at first, He only wrote something in the dust with His finger. Pressed by the accusers to make a judgment, He told them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first” (grace was His not giving the woman what she deserved for the way she had behaved.

What did Jesus teach about law? This, too, is revealed in the above account. He did not say to the woman that she was free to carry on as before, as if she hadn’t been pardoned. He wanted her to change her way of living—to repent. Essentially, He said, “Now, go behave yourself.” Law and Grace: Jesus vs. Paul?

Good post.

It shows Jesus moving ABOVE the law..in Grace. ( Obviously I still have the issue on my mind about the discussion on Questions thread)
John 1:17 "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."
Also in Mark 2 He again tries to show them that living in God's Spirit is higher than the legal law of the commandments.
23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn. 24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? 25 And He said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him? 26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him? 27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath."

He also show

s here why David was a man after God's own heart...David also saw beyond the law...and is commended for it!!
I liked how your post shows that grace is NOT without accountability. Just like (the (despised) Paul said :Cor. "We beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain." and later..not as an occasion for the flesh..."
Gal "For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another."

So, where is the argument? 'tis a great mystery to me..

 

[H. Richard]

i remember this heresy from my church, religious days, but i forget what verse is quoted to support this, you might quote it and we will see i guess. I notice google can't figure it out either,

a child of God will not be judged on his/her works - Google Search

***
I see you wish to keep it up. Thank you for indicating that what I believe is a heresy. The religious RCC use to burn people for heresy. As I see it those that add the works of man to gain salvation are refusing to accept that Jesus' shed blood paid for ALL their sins of the flesh. They do not have any faith in what God has done but have faith in what they do. Faith in both is a rejection of God's work.

Rom 9:11
11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
NKJV

Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
NKJV

I see that you wish to work for your gift. When do you think you have done enough of them to keep salvation???

 

[bbyrd009]

***
I see you wish to keep it up. Thank you for indicating that what I believe is a heresy. The religious RCC use to burn people for heresy. As I see it those that add the works of man to gain salvation are refusing to accept that Jesus' shed blood paid for ALL their sins of the flesh. They do not have any faith in what God has done but have faith in what they do. Faith in both is a rejection of God's work.

Rom 9:11
11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
NKJV

Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
NKJV

I see that you wish to work for your gift. When do you think you have done enough of them to keep salvation???

yes, so the frame will continue to be manipulated into one of "works do not = salvation," when that is not the point, and you can just continue to believe that Jesus has saved you from all of your future sins, no repentance required. But of course you will not tell your children this, i guess. Nor will you even acknowledge all of the Scripture that you cannot fit into your belief.

i hope you see that i have no problem with that personally, ok, as i do not reap from what you have sown. BAM as long as the belief serves you, pursue it, i would not expect or advise anything else.

You can pretend that you do not judge others by their works, every day, for as long as ppl will listen to that, i guess; many cathedrals are built on less.

 

[bbyrd009]

you wish

you might at least acknowledge these, and address them some kind of way, so as not to be perceived as ignoring Scripture

Romans 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds
biblehub.com/romans/2-6.htm
who "will pay back to everyone according to their works:" .... has done, the moral tenor of his life, will be the standard by which he will be judged at the last day.
2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of ...

 

[bbyrd009]

ok then, don't, but don't kid yourself, you are going to be judged by your works, see, regardless of either of our beliefs on the matter, the same thing you and everyone else on the planet already does, every day. Voila.