"The Outsiders" of Rev 22

[Arnie Manitoba]

I have always been puzzled who these "outsiders" are .... anyone have an opinion ?

Revelation 22:14-15

Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.


Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

 

[IBeMe]

22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

It's those who don't "do his commandments" ; they won't be allowed to "enter in through the gates into the city."

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

But the thing is Satan and the demons are all confined to hell ..... it is now the era of the new heaven and new earth .... and yet outside Jerusalem it sounds like plenty of disobedience still going on.

The previous chapter of Rev says ..........
Rev 21:6-8 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

 

[Webers_Home]

Revelation 22:14-15 . . Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have
the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are
the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the
idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Those on the outside refers to the roasting corpses, infested with a curious species
of fire-proof worm, that will be open to the public like the skeletal remains on
display in the museum at La Brea tar pits in Los Angeles.

†. Isa 66:22-24 . . All humanity will come to worship me from week to week and
from month to month. And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies of those
who have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will never die, and
the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by will view them with
utter horror.

Jesus apparently believed Isaiah's statement is true and reliable because he taught
some of it himself 700 years later.

†. Mark 9:47-48 . . If your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. It is better to enter
the kingdom of God half blind than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell;
where the worm never dies and the fire never goes out.

Buen Camino
/

 

[afaithfulone4u]

But the thing is Satan and the demons are all confined to hell ..... it is now the era of the new heaven and new earth .... and yet outside Jerusalem it sounds like plenty of disobedience still going on.

The previous chapter of Rev says ..........
Rev 21:6-8 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

As I have posted the 3 different destinations before on here. Many are called but few are chosen. To inherit the kingdom of God or receive salvation are two different things. But the rejection of the Word/Christ is something else. Paul WARNS believers about this:
1 Cor 6:8-10
8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV
Gal 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV

1. Saints: There are those who inherit the Bride which is the City (Woman Rev.12)who will be those worthy to escape being birthed in image of Christ meaning fully mature to the Woman as son's of God (caught up) in Rev 12:5.

2. Saved nations Rev.21:15: There are those who in the Great White Throne Judgment who were NOT READY at his appearing for his pure, holy body because they did not remain IN THE WORD but did believe that Jesus was the Son of God for salvation to live again according to the rewards they layed up for themselves who will live outside of the Bride or Holy City of God.



3. Lake of Fire Rev.21:8: Then there are those who did not receive Christ due to being in FEAR, UNBELIEF AND ABOMINABLE having the mark of the BEAST like Cain who was in his father's image being of the devil who go into the lake of eternal lake of fire(in HOT WATER with God)

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
KJV
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


These in 15 below are the saved nations who come back to life when all the books are opened and their name is found in the book of life. Notice they live outside the bride and the 3 descriptions as those who go to the lake of fire are not mentioned, FEAR, UNBELIEVING, ABOMINABLE..But you will notice they still will be dealing with sin towards one another which isn' t such a good life. But that is due to them believing they don't have to adhere to Word, they just loved the thought of being in love with the flesh image of Jesus they were going to marry.. but they never knew the Word at all.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Those on the outside refers to the roasting corpses, infested with a curious species
of fire-proof worm, that will be open to the public like the skeletal remains on
display in the museum at La Brea tar pits in Los Angeles.

Could be ..... but it talks about people who can go through the gates of The New Jerusalem ..... as opposed to the "outsiders" who cannot .... and the "outsiders" sound "alive" at the time .... but I could be wrong.

Thanks for the Isaiah 66 verses ..... they seem to fit with this topic .... tomorrow I will read the whole chapter and get back to you .... thanks

 

[veteran]

Come on now, you mean you guys never read about the "outer darkness" our Lord Jesus taught (Matt.8:12; Matt.22:13; Matt.25:30)??

The Rev.22:14-15 Scripture is Christ's Milennium reign timing. It is not... the new heavens and new earth timing which is later.

Both Rev.20 and Zechariah 14 reveals the 'nations' of wicked still existing on the earth throughout Christ's future "thousand years" reign. They will be OUTSIDE the Holy City, for that City will be Jerusalem where Jesus is coming to reign from with His elect kings and priests.

Why would you all get confused about that timeline order of the "outer darkness" where the wicked will be during Christ's reign over His enemies in our near future? Just because Rev.22:14-15 is given AFTER... the events of Revelation 20??

Or is it because the "tree of life" is shown manifested in that time?

That's what it is, many of you haven't read enough of the Old Testament prophets like Ezekiel concerning that "tree of life" to understand that it will manifest with Christ's second coming with that City (Ezekiel 44 thru 47).



If that is a shock to any of you, i.e., that Rev.22:14-15 is written later in Christ's Book of Revelation, but that event is actually for His "thousand years" reign, then there's another surprise waiting for you; because there are MANY events in our Lord's Book of Revelation that are not written sequentially, just as it is in just about all the Books of God's Old Testament prophets.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

The Rev.22:14-15 Scripture is Christ's Milennium reign timing. It is not... the new heavens and new earth timing which is later.

Going by the first 5 verses it is obviously the restoration of Eden .... there is nothing more to come in the revelation chronology


Revelation 22
1. Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.
4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.
5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

 

[veteran]

Going by the first 5 verses it is obviously the restoration of Eden .... there is nothing more to come in the revelation chronology


Revelation 22
1. Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.
4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.
5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

Stop and think about it; God's Great White Throne Judgment and the "lake of fire" of Rev.20 destroys all the wicked. They will not see God's Eternity.

So how can Rev.22:14-15 be about the new heavens and new earth timing? It's not for the reason that the wicked are still present, but in a place of separation outside the holy city. Its subject is moving back to the time of Christ's "thousand years" of Rev.20 prior to God's final Judgment of Rev.20:11-15. It is showing the Milennium timing that Ezekiel was shown by vision in Ezekiel 40 thru 47. Not only is the tree of life going to be manifest on earth for Christ's future "thousand years" reign, but so is the River of the Waters of Life, per Ezekiel 47. I've tried to show you all this many times on this forum.


Even in these following verses the subject our Lord speaks of is an earlier timeline than the new heavens and new earth...

Rev 22:6-7
6 And he said unto me, "These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to shew unto His servants the things which must shortly be done.
7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book."
(KJV)

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Stop and think about it; God's Great White Throne Judgment and the "lake of fire" of Rev.20 destroys all the wicked. They will not see God's Eternity.

And that is my whole point .... if all the wicked have been destroyed then who are the people "outside" the city of God in Rev 22

Could they be people who are not destroyed in hell .... nor get to go into the Holy City ..... yet still remain on earth ?

Your verses below pretty much indicate the same thing

Come on now, you mean you guys never read about the "outer darkness" our Lord Jesus taught (Matt.8:12; Matt.22:13; Matt.25:30)??

Those three verses say .......... throw them "outside" .... into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

A person has to be alive to weep and gnash teeth ..... maybe this is the eternal punishment spoken of in the bible

I also notice Matt 8:12 says it will be .... "the subjects of the kingdom" .... who will be thrown "outside" .... Could the "subjects" be covenant Israel who rejected Christ ?

 

[veteran]

And that is my whole point .... if all the wicked have been destroyed then who are the people "outside" the city of God in Rev 22

Could they be people who are not destroyed in hell .... nor get to go into the Holy City ..... yet still remain on earth ?

What you're doing is allowing those who told you how to look at Revelation to sway you to 'their' thinking.

Not every event written in Revelation is in the sequence it happens. It's a huge mistake to think that everything written there is. Our Lord's Revelation is given more in the style of the Old Testament Books of the prophets where the timeline of events keeps moving back and forth between past, present, and future.

The location where those thieves and murderers of Rev.22:15 are is... the "outer darkness" our Lord Jesus taught. It's a place of separation outside the holy city and away from Christ and His elect during the "thousand years" of Rev.20. That's where the "goats" on the left hand of Matt.25 are separated to at Christ's return. It's where the one trying to sneak into Christ's future supper without a wedding garment is cast out to. It's where Jesus warned the unbelieving Jews about the children of the kingdom (those who refuse Him), will be cast out to. It's Milennium timing.

Those three verses say .......... throw them "outside" .... into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

A person has to be alive to weep and gnash teeth ..... maybe this is the eternal punishment spoken of in the bible

I also notice Matt 8:12 says it will be .... "the subjects of the kingdom" .... who will be thrown "outside" .... Could the "subjects" be covenant Israel who rejected Christ ?

No, the soul with spirit does not have to be in a flesh body to suffer that. Christ gave us the example of the "rich man" of Luke 16 who was in torments in hell, and he had died with his flesh body buried. That weeping and gnashing of the teeth is an expression for emotional torments, just like what the "rich man" of Luke 16 suffered after his death.

Those of the children of kingdom thrown outside the holy city do... represent the rebellious children of Israel, those who remained in unbelief for this world. During Christ's future "thousand years" reign, the nations will still... exist on earth (see end of Zech.14). That's what is outside the "camp of the saints" of Rev.20.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

What you're doing is allowing those who told you how to look at Revelation to sway you to 'their' thinking.

Your typical standard reply on every post veteran ... trying to carry on a conversation with you is impossible ... you turn girly-scared if nobody believes your slant on things.

You always resort to blaming everybody for following Man's doctrines

You have absolutely worn that phrase out and it is getting tiring.

 

[veteran]

Your typical standard reply on every post veteran ... trying to carry on a conversation with you is impossible ... you turn girly-scared if nobody believes your slant on things.

You always resort to blaming everybody for following Man's doctrines

You have absolutely worn that phrase out and it is getting tiring.

I'm just trying to tell you the truth about it.

You're not the only one swayed by traditions on how to approach the reading of our Lord's Book of Revelation. The reason I 'know' that's what is influencing your thinking is by your inability to understand that all the wicked are destroyed at the end of Rev.20 as written. That's a very simple matter of common sense and has nothing to do with how you feel about me personally.

Well, with your attitude now, you can forget ever properly understanding that Rev.22:14-15 Scripture, just because no matter if others told you the same thing, you won't believe it just because I had already told you.


Here's some more info about men's traditions for you Arnie...

Matt 16:6-12
6 Then Jesus said unto them, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."
7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, "It is because we have taken no bread."
8 Which when Jesus perceived, He said unto them, "O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?
9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?
10 Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?
11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?"
12 Then understood they how that He bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
(KJV)


What was the kind of problem of thinking Christ's disciples were having in the above example?

Matt 15:6-9
6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 'This people draweth nigh unto Me with their mouth, and honoureth Me with their lips; but their heart is far from Me.
9 But in vain they do worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
(KJV)

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

I'm just trying to tell you the truth about it.

You left out something important ...

you think the truth can only be the way you see it

to the exclusion of all others.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

Traditions of men means that you believe it just because grandpa taught it and you do not move forward in the spiritual understanding of the Word. Just because man says it, don't make it so. The Word he is the guide.

They also teach and still believe that there were only 3 wise men but it never says that. Some even teach that Joseph never knew Mary before she conceived Jesus by the Holy Ghost.. yet the word KNEW meant in the sexual sense not as in acquaintance but it has been a tradition of man for centuries that they never met until then, yet it is not truth that the Bible teaches, even though it is not always accepted by those who have received it as their truth. Just to name a few traditions of man that is hard for them to shake.

And let me ask you this veteran,
Where do you think the 5 unwise virgins go after those found worthy are caught up(High Calling) and the Woman and the rest of her offspring go to the place prepared by God to be further fed(spiritually, to shed some more of that flesh that holds us down in the dust of the earth(lower class level)?

Do you believe they loose salvation? How could that be if salvation is not of our works? Surely you do not think all believers will be walking around as kings and priests over each other do you?? There must be servants for these kings and priests and that is where those in the GWTJ come in IF their name is written in the book of life. Our works that we did in the body OF CHRIST will reflect our rewards for now and in the future.
Saved to live again and Chosen to rule and reign with Christ as his HOLY BODY being the high calling are two different things. The chosen faithful and martyr's will inherit the heavenly kingdom(as Rulers)... but the MEEK that were not bold for the Word and did not reach spiritual maturity will inherit the rest of the earth which is outside of the Bride heavenly Jerusalem.

 

[day]

I have always been puzzled who these "outsiders" are .... anyone have an opinion ?

Revelation 22:14-15

Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.

Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

They are the ones from the second resurrection whom Satan deceived when he was released from the pit. Their names were not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life. They will be thrown into the Lake of Fire with Satan, the Beast and the False Prophet. In Revelation 22, Jesus is warning everyone to be ready and cleansed, so they will not be in that group when he comes.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

They are the ones from the second resurrection whom Satan deceived when he was released from the pit. Their names were not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life. They will be thrown into the Lake of Fire with Satan, the Beast and the False Prophet. In Revelation 22, Jesus is warning everyone to be ready and cleansed, so they will not be in that group when he comes.

I am thinking that the lake of fire is something different than the world "outside" the gates of jerusalem. I could be wrong.

 

[veteran]

You left out something important ...

you think the truth can only be the way you see it

to the exclusion of all others.

For your accusation to be true, you'd first have to prove it by the Scripture. You haven't done that, but have only thrown out opinion. If you're so sure what I've said about this matter is just my opinion, then prove it by the Scripture instead of just casting suppositions that have nothing to do with the subject of the Scripture.

They are the ones from the second resurrection whom Satan deceived when he was released from the pit. Their names were not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life. They will be thrown into the Lake of Fire with Satan, the Beast and the False Prophet. In Revelation 22, Jesus is warning everyone to be ready and cleansed, so they will not be in that group when he comes.

Even right there 'day' reveals what I had already shown you Arnie.

 

[veteran]

Traditions of men means that you believe it just because grandpa taught it and you do not move forward in the spiritual understanding of the Word. Just because man says it, don't make it so. The Word he is the guide.

They also teach and still believe that there were only 3 wise men but it never says that. Some even teach that Joseph never knew Mary before she conceived Jesus by the Holy Ghost.. yet the word KNEW meant in the sexual sense not as in acquaintance but it has been a tradition of man for centuries that they never met until then, yet it is not truth that the Bible teaches, even though it is not always accepted by those who have received it as their truth. Just to name a few traditions of man that is hard for them to shake.

You're definitely... wrong about that part regarding Mary the mother of our Lord Jesus...

Matt 1:18
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
(KJV)

You have fallen into the very trap of men's traditions that you speak against. Your tradition on that obviously comes from falsehoods among the religion of Judaism, because it is especially they who do not believe Jesus of Nazareth was fathered by The Holy Spirit and not Mary's husband Joseph, nor any flesh man. The above Matthew 1:18 proves your idea wrong completely without a doubt.

And let me ask you this veteran,
Where do you think the 5 unwise virgins go after those found worthy are caught up(High Calling) and the Woman and the rest of her offspring go to the place prepared by God to be further fed(spiritually, to shed some more of that flesh that holds us down in the dust of the earth(lower class level)?

The five foolish virgins of Matt.25 are cast to the outer darkness, because that's what Christ's telling them He did not know them is about. See Luke 13. Enough has already been said about that place here in this thread to have learned about it for those who don't know.

The symbolic Woman of Rev.12 that flees into the wilderness represents Christ's Church, NOT the orthodox unbelieving Jews. Proof of that is easily established, because many Jews today already wrongly think that fleeing is about a physical fleeing to the desert, when it's not about that at all. So will you flee to the desert with those deceived, or convert to Christ Jesus to understand what His warning there is really about?

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Anyone else have an opinion about the "outsiders" ?