The Point Of Stephen's Speech?

[Frank Lee]

Who says you're speaking as an oracle of God? You, a demon or the holy spirit? How do you know which?

You're most offensive. By your reply I now am certain of something about you I only suspected before.

 

[CoreIssue]

You're most offensive. By your reply I now am certain of something about you I only suspected before.

I asked you a simple valid question that you will not answer.

How do you know?

 

[farouk]

When Christ died the mosaic covenant was annulled and Israel was suspended as being covenant nation and wife of God.

With Christ being the sacrificial lamb God was now available to all, so no more need for the curtain.

Many believe the church began at pentecost. I believe it began at the death of Christ.

Now before anybody goes hyper, I remind all Israel grew and developed over time old as the covenant nation. Coming out of Egypt, the choosing of Moses, the giving of the 10 commandments, the giving of the law, the giving of the land, the building of the temple and more.

I see the same process having happened in the Church.

I see nothing to argue about over date setting the beginning of Israel or the church.

I do see the beginning of the church t Pentecost in Acts 2.

 

[quietthinker]

When Christ died the mosaic covenant was annulled and Israel was suspended as being covenant nation and wife of God.
It was Gods covenant, not Moses's ...Israel being the symbol of God's people throughout time.....nothing was annulled but much was fulfilled

With Christ being the sacrificial lamb God was now available to all, so no more need for the curtain.
Christ has always been available to all who are willing throughout time.

Many believe the church began at pentecost. I believe it began at the death of Christ.
God's people throughout time are his Church...it began with Adam....God has not fragmented humanity

Now before anybody goes hyper, I remind all Israel grew and developed over time old as the covenant nation. Coming out of Egypt, the choosing of Moses, the giving of the 10 commandments, the giving of the law, the giving of the land, the building of the temple and more.

I see the same process having happened in the Church.

I see nothing to argue about over date setting the beginning of Israel or the church.

 

[brakelite]

It does not say the time of israel was over. Not even hinted at.

The 70weeks given to Israel had expired. Starting from 457ad when Artexerxes gave the decree to the remnant people of God to rebuild Jerusalem and the temple, thus giving them sovereignty once again over their City, and their religion, ... To the anointing by the holy Spirit upon Messiah in 27AD...69 weeks. In the midst of the 70th week, Messiah was cut off, but not for himself. The disciples went first with the gospel to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Until Israel, by and through their leadership, rejected their Messiah through the slaying of the first Christian prophet. So they confirmed their following in their apostate father's footsteps... And so concluded the final week in which Messiah confirmed the covenant... Which Israel, as a nation,. Finally and irrevocably broke.

 

[ScottA]

Greetings all. I wanted to see what our theologians have to say on this question. I actually have my own interpretation which I can share later, but I wanted to see what sort of responses I got to the following question:

What was the driving point of Stephen's speech in Acts, Chapter 7? If you can, I'd like a succinct reply in one or at the most two sentences.

Thanks in advance to any who reply
Blessings in Christ,
Hidden in Him

1 Then said the high priest, "Are these things so?" 2 And he said, "Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken. The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran, 3 And said unto him, 'Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and ..."

God's people have been known to repeatedly miss or reject what God is doing at each of the milestones down through the ages of biblical history. Each time, they not only rejected His plans, but even fought against Him. Stephen's remembrance speech was a warning...because it was about to happen again.

 

[brakelite]

It does not say the time of israel was over. Not even hinted at.

Every prophet in the OT, even to John the Baptist, offered Israel opportunity for repentance.
Stephen did not.
KJV Acts 7
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

This was an indictment like no other. No mercy. No forgiveness. No call to repentance. Merely an accurate historical and judicial summary of the charges being laid before them. They trusted in their temple, their services, their sacrifices.
KJV Acts 7
48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

KJV Matthew 23
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Note well, not my Father's house... Not my house... Your house is left into you desolate.
As a nation chosen of God for the purpose of bringing the gospel to the world, their employment was over. Their 70weeks of probation was over. Israel had not onl y killed the prophets who told of the coming Messiah. They killed the Messiah when he came.
Read Mark 12:1-12. Pay particular attention to verse 9.

 

[Dave L]

The

So? Since when is judging something evil? The bible tells us to do so as long as we do it justly.

Calling someone evil because they don't agree with you = judgement

 

[CoreIssue]

Every prophet in the OT, even to John the Baptist, offered Israel opportunity for repentance.
Stephen did not.
KJV Acts 7
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

This was an indictment like no other. No mercy. No forgiveness. No call to repentance. Merely an accurate historical and judicial summary of the charges being laid before them. They trusted in their temple, their services, their sacrifices.
KJV Acts 7
48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

KJV Matthew 23
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Note well, not my Father's house... Not my house... Your house is left into you desolate.
As a nation chosen of God for the purpose of bringing the gospel to the world, their employment was over. Their 70weeks of probation was over. Israel had not onl y killed the prophets who told of the coming Messiah. They killed the Messiah when he came.
Read Mark 12:1-12. Pay particular attention to verse 9.

But Israel will be back, so their time is not over.

 

[CoreIssue]

Calling someone evil because they don't agree with you = judgement

Refresh my memory, where did I call you evil?

 

[CoreIssue]

The 70weeks given to Israel had expired. Starting from 457ad when Artexerxes gave the decree to the remnant people of God to rebuild Jerusalem and the temple, thus giving them sovereignty once again over their City, and their religion, ... To the anointing by the holy Spirit upon Messiah in 27AD...69 weeks. In the midst of the 70th week, Messiah was cut off, but not for himself. The disciples went first with the gospel to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Until Israel, by and through their leadership, rejected their Messiah through the slaying of the first Christian prophet. So they confirmed their following in their apostate father's footsteps... And so concluded the final week in which Messiah confirmed the covenant... Which Israel, as a nation,. Finally and irrevocably broke.

Jesus was cut off at the end of the 69th week. He did no seven year covenant.

 

[Dave L]

This really supports your claims...........

No, it was advice to you.

It's judgmental.

The

So? Since when is judging something evil? The bible tells us to do so as long as we do it justly.

Refresh my memory, where did I call you evil?

 

[Dave L]

Jesus was cut off at the end of the 69th week. He did no seven year covenant.

This is not true, He was cut off in the middle of the 70th week.

 

[CoreIssue]

This is not true, He was cut off in the middle of the 70th week.

Daniel 9:26-27 New International Version (NIV)
26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’(69th week) the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple" he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

 

[Dave L]

Daniel 9:26-27 New International Version (NIV)
26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’(69th week) the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple" he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

after 69 comes 70

 

[CoreIssue]

after 69 comes 70

It did not say in the 70th week he died or even mention Jesus. Nor has the 70th week happened yet.

 

[Dave L]

It did not say in the 70th week he died or even mention Jesus. Nor has the 70th week happened yet.

OK, how would you like it if you cashed a $70 check and they said you could have $69 now, and the last $1 in two - three thousand years?

 

[brakelite]

The prophecy of the 70 weeks is a messianic prophecy. It has nothing to do with the Antichrist. Messiah confirmed his own covenant with Israel for 3 1/2 years in person, and in mercy to fulfill and finish the 70 weeks told his disciples to go only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. This they did, for a further 3 1/2 years until 34ad after Stephen was killed... The covenant dissolved by Israel in the final rejection of God, and the gospel them going to the gentiles.
If you cannot understand that, you do not understand God's purpose for Israel in the first place, and why and how they failed to complete their duty, nor the purpose for the church.

 

[Enoch111]

The prophecy of the 70 weeks is a messianic prophecy. It has nothing to do with the Antichrist.

Come of Brakelite, surely you know better than to pervert the meaning of Scripture.

DANIEL 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [CHRIST] shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah [CHRIST] be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

1. Who is "the prince that shall come" AFTER "Messiah be cut off"?
2. Who is "the prince that shall destroy the city and the sanctuary"?
3. Who is the prince who shall break his covenant after 3 1/2 years?
4. Who is the prince who shall place the Abomination of Desolation in the Holy Place? (Mt 24:15)
5. Who is the prince who shall cause the "overspreading of desolations"?
6. Who is the prince who shall bring about desolations on the whole world like a flood, and like the Flood?

If anyone would suggest that this evil "prince" is Christ, it would be ludicrous. However, when we see the Antichrist placing the "image of the Beast" (the Abomination of Desolation) in the future temple at Jerusalem, and triggering the desolations of the Great Tribulation, it all fits together.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The prophecy of the 70 weeks is a messianic prophecy. It has nothing to do with the Antichrist. Messiah confirmed his own covenant with Israel for 3 1/2 years in person, and in mercy to fulfill and finish the 70 weeks told his disciples to go only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. This they did, for a further 3 1/2 years until 34 AD after Stephen was killed... The covenant dissolved by Israel in the final rejection of God, and the gospel then going to the gentiles.
If you cannot understand that, you do not understand God's purpose for Israel in the first place, and why and how they failed to complete their duty, nor the purpose for the church.

What is your response to Daniel 9:26-27, Brakelite? I'm curious to know myself.