The Popular False Justification and False Sanctification View Today.

[Robert Gwin]

I don't recall a single instance of Jesus refusing to be worshipped.

You are going to say Jesus is God and was worshipped, but that is not the case. You can never go wrong by worshipping and serving the God Jesus said to, the one that he served. Mat 4:10. You will either obey that or not, but as for me and my household we shall serve Jehovah sir.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

obedience to God is not what establishes you as a born again child of God from here forward.

Faith in God's forgiveness does that all by itself.

Well then how can a faithful servant be at risk to partake in disobedience?

“Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.” (Ephesians 5:6-7)

“For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?” (1 Peter 4:17-18)

 

[Jim B]

You are not suffering for Christ:

“Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.” (1 Peter 4:1-2)

But you seem to be what this scripture describes:

“Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children” (2 Peter 2:14)

So go ahead and suffer if it makes you feel better. Sounds absurd to me. I prefer the joy of the Lord!

Nehemiah 8:9-10, " Then Nehemiah the governor, Ezra the priestly scribe, and the Levites who were imparting understanding to the people said to all of them, “This day is holy to the Lord your God. Do not mourn or weep.” For all the people had been weeping when they heard the words of the law. He said to them, “Go and eat delicacies and drink sweet drinks and send portions to those for whom nothing is prepared. For this day is holy to our Lord. Do not grieve, for the joy of the Lord is your strength.”

Philippians 4:4, "Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I say, rejoice!"

 

[Michiah-Imla]

So go ahead and suffer if it makes you feel better.

Philippians 4:4, "Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I say, rejoice!"

The flesh suffers when you deny its sinful desires.

But the spirit rejoices!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Well then how can a faithful servant be at risk to partake in disobedience?

Through ignorance, weakness, and unpreparedness. The faith through which we were made sons of God is being increased and perfected, growing us up into the full stature and image of Jesus. The born again part is done. Growing up into what we've been born to be is what is being completed in us now. And along the way we're bumping our heads and skinning our knees in life's trials and afflictions as that faith grows.

3...your faith is growing more and more, and your love for one another is increasing. 4That is why we boast among God’s churches about your perseverance and faith in the face of all the persecution and affliction you are enduring." 2 Thessalonians 1:3-4

"1...let us throw off every encumbrance and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with endurance the race set out for us. 2Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith" Hebrews 12:1-2

​

 

[Michiah-Imla]

obedience to God is not what establishes you as a born again child of God from here forward.

How can this be?

Without obedience one does not receive the Holy Ghost.

“Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.” (Acts 5:31-32)

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You are going to say Jesus is God and was worshipped, but that is not the case. You can never go wrong by worshipping and serving the God Jesus said to, the one that he served. Mat 4:10. You will either obey that or not, but as for me and my household we shall serve Jehovah sir.

Like I say, I don't think your belief automatically condemns you to the fiery place. Jesus has big shoulders. He can endure with patience and understanding man's wonderings about the exact nature of his being that our natural minds can't grasp and so forgives our errors regarding that matter:

"32Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come." Matthew 12:32
​

You can misunderstand the nature of who and what the Son is. But it's what the Holy Spirit speaks about the Son in salvation that you have to get right. There is no room for error in that:

"10Whoever believes in the Son of God has this testimony (the testimony of the Holy Spirit-vs.6) within him; whoever does not believe God has made Him (the Holy Spirit who testifies) out to be a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given about His Son." 1 John 5:10​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Works of faith = Faith.
Faith is what makes us to access the saving grace of God.

For the believing person the justifying/'being made a son of God' part of faith is already completed. That happened the moment they believed in God's promise of a Son, just as that happened for Abraham, our example of how we, too, are justified (made righteous) by faith all by itself without works. From then on that same faith accesses the grace of God in holy living, not the grace of God in becoming the son of God that we have already become by virtue of the new birth.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

How can this be?

Without obedience one does not receive the Holy Ghost.

“Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.” (Acts 5:31-32)

We receive the Holy Spirit by virtue of the new birth, just like we received our human spirit when we were born in the flesh. That is what makes us sons of God - being born into the family, not performing works of obedience:

"...because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts” Galatians 4:6
​

This new birth, this sonship, is completed already. We're not jumping through hoops of righteous works to achieve what we have already become by virtue of rebirth:

"1Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God..." 1 John 5:1
​

Our righteous works SHOW us to have this rebirth as sons of God. They do not cause it:

"4...everyone born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world: our faith." 1 John 5:2
​

Notice it does not say, 'those who overcome the world become born again'. It says, "everyone born of God overcomes the world."

 

[mailmandan]

We receive the Holy Spirit by virtue of the new birth, just like we received our human spirit when we were born in the flesh. That is what makes us sons of God - being born into the family, not performing works of obedience:

"...because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts” Galatians 4:6
​

This new birth, this sonship, is completed already. We're not jumping through hoops of righteous works to achieve what we have already become by virtue of rebirth:

"1Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God..." 1 John 5:1
​

Our righteous works SHOW us to have this rebirth as sons of God. They do not cause it:
"4...everyone born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world: our faith." 1 John 5:2 Notice it does not say, 'those who overcome the world become born again'. It says, "everyone born of God overcomes the world."

Amen! John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name.

Galatians 3:26 - For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

We receive the Holy Spirit through the obedient act of choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16; 10:16; Ephesians 1:13) which is not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which follow saving belief/faith in Christ.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

We receive the Holy Spirit by virtue of the new birth

And if receiving the Holy Spirit is tied into the new birth then you must be obedient to God to be born again. Because the scripture says:

“And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.” (Acts 5:32)

just like we received our human spirit when we were born in the flesh

It’s not like that at all.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

@Ferris Bueller

Why would John the Baptist warn us about how the axe is laid to the root of the tree and then he says that we must bring forth fruits worthy of repentance? This sound like to me that if we don’t take action to do good works that are truly worthy to God, then we will be chopped down.

Yes, ultimately chopped down and thrown into the fire because we do not have faith. Faith that would have otherwise brought us to repentance and the works consistent with that genuine change of mind about sin. No fruit means no change of mind about sin has occurred in a salvation experience.

The necessity to bring forth fruit consistent with repentance is not so that fruit can make us fruit trees, but to confirm us as being the fruit bearing trees our claim to faith and repentance says we are. The absence of fruit reveals that we have not become the fruit tree that faith in God would have made us. The absence of faith in God's forgiveness causes us to condemned by the sinful acts that faith in God would have otherwise forgiven and cleansed us of.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Many are deceived by Belief Alone Salvationism. But the Bible says this:

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).​

IF we walk in the light the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. So if this is true, then it cannot be believing on the finished work of the cross alone your whole life. It has to also include "walking in the light." For walking in the light is the continued condition of the blood of Jesus cleansing us from all sin.

What does "walking in the light" mean?

Walking in the light is loving your brother.

In other words, we have to love the brethren, and or keep God's Commands in the New Testament (not the Old Testament and its ceremonial laws; see my signature below) in order for the blood of Christ to continue to cleanse us of sin. For Paul says that loving your neighbor is the fulfilling of the Moral Law (like do not kill, do not steal, do not covet, etc.) (See: Romans 13:8-10).

The Bible also says that if we willfully sin after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin.

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins," (Hebrews 10:26).​

This means that simply believing in the finished work of the cross is not going to cut it. If we sin again, we need to reconcile with the Lord.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9).
​

After we are saved by God's grace, any other sins that are committed afterwards are only forgiven if we confess such sins to the Lord (compare 1 John 1:9 also with 1 John 2:1). This is with the intention that we are going to forsake such sin (See again 1 John 1:7 and compare with Proverbs 28:13). Most of Protestant Christianity believes they can sin and still be saved on some level (even those who say that a real Christian does not abide in habitual sin). They don’t really believe what the Bible plainly says on sin and salvation. It’s all about a belief alone in the Savior that saves and nothing else to them. This opens wide the flood gates of living for oneself and not God. There are many warnings in Scripture to those who think they don’t have to obey God in holy living as a part of eternal life. Without holiness no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

John the Baptist was against Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism. He said to the Pharisees “do not think to say within yourselves we have Abraham our father.” For they thought they were saved by simply being sons of Abraham.

For it is written:

“Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father...”
(Matthew 3:8-9).​

Jesus was against Belief Alone-ism.

The Pharisees said,

“...Abraham is our father.”​

Jesus said unto them,

“If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.” (John 8:39).​

So if you want to know that God is against Belief Alone-ism, just remember the number 39.

Matthew 3:9.
John 8:39.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Like I say, I don't think your belief automatically condemns you to the fiery place. Jesus has big shoulders. He can endure with patience and understanding man's wonderings about the exact nature of his being that our natural minds can't grasp and so forgives our errors regarding that matter:

"32Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the one to come." Matthew 12:32
​

You can misunderstand the nature of who and what the Son is. But it's what the Holy Spirit speaks about the Son in salvation that you have to get right. There is no room for error in that:

"10Whoever believes in the Son of God has this testimony (the testimony of the Holy Spirit-vs.6) within him; whoever does not believe God has made Him (the Holy Spirit who testifies) out to be a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given about His Son." 1 John 5:10​

Timing has a lot to do with things Ferris, at this time those of the past who have died have been acquitted of sin Rom 6:7 and will receive a resurrection Jn 5:28,29 unless they sinned against the holy spirit Mat 12:31,32. When Jesus returns those alive will have been judged as either sheep or goats and those who do not know God or obey the gospel of Christ will be destroyed 2 Thes 1:6-9; those who are righteous will survive Rev 7:9,14.

Jesus will reign over the earth for a millennium and at the end of that satan will be released from his prison and take many with him Rev 20:7,8 those who choose to follow him will be destroyed a second time in the lake of fire Rev 20:13,14 and those who survive that will now have been given salvation and came to life Rev 20:5

That is it in the nutshell Ferris, I hope you understand sir. That is what the Bible really teaches.

We are living in a critical time period right now because we are at the point of Jesus' return, so those at this period of time that are not serving God will be destroyed if they live to the time of Jesus' return. So it is critical we learn the identity of God's people and go with them. Zech 8:23; Isa 2:2-4

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Many are deceived by Belief Alone Salvationism.

'Belief alone', as you call it, does not mean faith can be alone. It means receiving God's forgiveness by faith all by itself is what makes a person a saved born again son of God, and that faith does not need the aid of righteous work for it to do that. Righteous work is only required as the evidence and expression of that faith, validating it as a genuine saving faith. The works themselves have no power whatsoever to make, or keep you a saved son of God. Faith in God's forgiveness does that all by itself. Blood, applied through faith is the cleansing agent, not works.

And furthermore, the born again person who has received God's forgiveness does not need to be continually made clean over and over again. He only has to wash his feet...

"“Whoever has already bathed needs only to wash his feet, and he will be completely clean." John 13:10​