The (potential) Treachery of Doctrine > My way, or the highway >

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face2face

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There are many Apollos preaching today.
...And God led a pair to him to further enlighten him of Christ. Are you @Titus suggesting the preaching of John the Baptist was in error?
It was still "the way", just lacking more accuracy.

They revealed the facts concerning the atonement and mission of Christ Jesus, dealing with the work he accomplished for the redemption of
mankind (Acts 10:34-43), and that in Jesus were fulfilled all the conclusions that Apollos had reached from his study of the O.T.

It appears from what you and Titus are saying is the knowledge he had, was entirely false, which is not what the record is saying.

I think with further meditation on these matters your ignorant hard approach can be softened - hard hearts were the people Apollos was preaching to!

Here was a man who took upon himself the initiative to present the principles of Messiah to his Jewish contemporaries. He was obviously a man with fearless determination....and not to be counted as nothing in your eyes.

Lets see if a balanced reply is possible.

F2F
 

David in NJ

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...And God led a pair to him to further enlighten him of Christ. Are you @Titus suggesting the preaching of John the Baptist was in error?
It was still "the way", just lacking more accuracy.

They revealed the facts concerning the atonement and mission of Christ Jesus, dealing with the work he accomplished for the redemption of
mankind (Acts 10:34-43), and that in Jesus were fulfilled all the conclusions that Apollos had reached from his study of the O.T.

It appears from what you and Titus are saying is the knowledge he had, was entirely false, which is not what the record is saying.

I think with further meditation on these matters your ignorant hard approach can be softened - hard hearts were the people Apollos was preaching to!

Here was a man who took upon himself the initiative to present the principles of Messiah to his Jewish contemporaries. He was obviously a man with fearless determination....and not to be counted as nothing in your eyes.

Lets see if a balanced reply is possible.

F2F
TRUTH = Acts 18:24-28

Now a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man and mighty in the Scriptures, came to Ephesus. 25This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things of the Lord, though he knew only the baptism of John. 26So he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. 27And when he desired to cross to Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him; and when he arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace; 28for he vigorously refuted the Jews publicly, showing from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Christ.

i never said Apollos was preaching falsehood
 

face2face

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@Wrangler is it just me, is the spirit of these men Pharisaical?

Apollos an enthusiastic man who taught, not only according to his considerable knowledge, but was willing and open-minded enough to become more fully instructed. These men in this forum brand him an apostate.

In all my time I've never heard Apollos spoken of in such low regard.

F2F
 
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David in NJ

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@Wrangler is it just me, is the spirit of these men Pharisaical?

Apollos an enthusiastic man who taught, not only according to his considerable knowledge, but was willing and open-minded enough to become more fully instructed. These men in this forum brand him a apostate.

In all my time I've never heard Apollos spoken of in such low regard.

F2F
Now you are speaking as a pharisee...........falsely accusing
 

face2face

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TRUTH = Acts 18:24-28

Now a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man and mighty in the Scriptures, came to Ephesus. 25This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things of the Lord, though he knew only the baptism of John. 26So he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. 27And when he desired to cross to Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him; and when he arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace; 28for he vigorously refuted the Jews publicly, showing from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Christ.

i never said Apollos was preaching falsehood
You dont need me to show you the significance of the use of the term "the way" from Acts surely you have more competence than that!
 

face2face

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Now you are speaking as a pharisee...........falsely accusing
Not so - you cast poor judgement over Apollos, did you not? He was in the way just needed guidance. You were too hard and I think you know this.
F2F
 
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face2face

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That is not in question here.

Did you read Post 62 ?
Go back and look at your harsh judgement of Apollos. He held true principles concerning Messiah but you say he was 100% in error - you are the one in error. F2F
 

David in NJ

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Not so - you cast poor judgement over Apollos, did you not? He was in the way just needed guidance. You were too hard and I think you know this.
F2F
You need to read the actual account which i posted (#62) and even highlighted the importance of Apollos.
 

David in NJ

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Go back and look at your harsh judgement of Apollos. He held true principles concerning Messiah but you say he was 100% in error - you are the one in error. F2F
Will you continue to bear false witness?

i never gave "harsh judgment" of Apollos and you would SEE that if you open your eyes to Post #62
 

face2face

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@Titus @Wrangler @David in NJ

This little exchange has demonstrated how dangerous black & white judgements are and how they cause division. Apollos held some truth; it only needed the missing pieces to make it complete.

Christians lack this type of honesty today because they are mostly fundamentalist in mindset = legalism.

F2F
 

David in NJ

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@Titus @Wrangler @David in NJ

This little exchange has demonstrated how dangerous black & white judgements are and how they cause division. Apollos held some truth; it only needed the missing pieces to make it complete.

Christians lack this type of honesty today because they are mostly fundamentalist in mindset = legalism.

F2F
This exchange shows your own ignorance and refusal to accept the Truth.

Post #62 has the Truth
 

face2face

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This exchange shows your own ignorance and refusal to accept the Truth.

Post #62 has the Truth
Yes, I highlighted the text in your post which you omitted to acknowledge (Post #65)

As I said in my earlier post. Apollos already had knowledge of Messiah and the principles of his coming...so he already held some truth...hence degrees of truth. He recevied further instruction and shown "the way" more accurately which means he on his way being in the way - just needed further information!

I'm curious how you can say "we have many Apollos' preaching today", which you didnt qualify, but from other posts its clear you believe Apollos was in total error which is clearly not the case.

If a person today is under instruction in things concerning God and Christ, just because they dont have the whole truth its doesnt mean what the know is error!

A lot to learn.

F2F
 

Johann

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A lot to learn.
You are nit-picking the members.

Apollos
"an eloquent man" This term in Koine Greek can mean either eloquent or educated. In the Septuagint logios is used of the oracles of God. Apollos was obviously more gifted in public speaking (Greek rhetoric) than Paul (compare 1 Cor. 1:17; 2:1; 2 Cor. 10:10; and 11:6). He was a powerful preacher!

"and he was mighty in the Scriptures" The term "Scriptures" refers to the OT (cf. 1 Thess. 2:13; 2 Tim. 3:16; 1 Pet. 1:23-25; 2 Pet. 1:20-21), with the exception of 2 Pet. 3:15-16, where Paul's writings (by analogy) are attributed inspired status. Apollos knew his OT well.

The word "mighty" is dunatos, which is used of Jesus' might in word and deed in Luke 24:19, and of Moses in Acts 7:22.

18:25 "This man had been instructed" This is a PERIPHRASTIC PLUPERFECT PASSIVE (cf. Luke 1:4). He had been trained in the teachings of Jesus, but only up to a certain level or time period. Curtis Vaughan, Acts, p. 118, footnote #2, lists the things Apollos may have known and preached.

John was the forerunner of the Messiah.

He pointed out the Messiah as the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah.

I also think that repentance was probably emphasized in his preaching because it was in both John's and Jesus' preaching.

"in the way of the Lord" "The way" was the first title used to describe the followers of Jesus in Acts (cf. Acts 9:2; 19:9,23; 22:4; 24:14,22; John 14:6). It was used often in the OT (cf. Deut. 5:32-33; 31:29; Ps. 27:11; Isa. 35:8), where it speaks of lifestyle faith. It is uncertain whether it has that meaning in this text (cf. Acts 18:26).

Apollos also knew something about Jesus, but apparently it was His early earthly ministry and not the post-Calvary, post-resurrection gospel.



"being fervent in spirit" This is literally "burning in spirit." This phrase is meant to describe the enthusiasm of Apollos for what he did know and understand about the life and teachings of Jesus.


"being acquainted only with the baptism of John" This phrase about Apollos may have been the literary technique that Luke used to introduce the followers of John in Acts 19:1-7. There were several heresies that developed in first century Palestine connected with John the Baptist's teaching and preaching.

John was the last OT prophet who prepared for the coming of the Messiah (cf. Isa. 40:3; Matt. 3:3), but he was not the first gospel preacher. If Apollos' preaching focused too much on John, then he missed the full significance of Jesus. Both John and Jesus emphasized "repentance," "faith," and "godly living." Both initially called the Jews to a new commitment to faith and practice (covenant faithfulness and personal faith in YHWH). However, Jesus' message developed into the bold assertion of His central place (e.g., John 10 and 14), possibly this is what Apollos lacked.

Am I downing Apollos? Notice the "possible-this is what Apollos lacked?" Would be to God there are more Apollos's today and godly "correctors" to help us through the Holy Spirit to expound the Way more fully!

18:26 "he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue" This VERB is used of Paul speaking to the Jews in the synagogue in Acts 13:46; 14:3; 19:8 and before Festus in Acts 26:26. Apollos was a powerful and effective preacher.

"in the synagogue" Notice Priscilla and Aquila were also there. This was Paul's regular custom also.


"Priscilla and Aquila" She is mentioned first several times, Acts 18:18,26; Rom. 16:3; 2 Tim. 4:19. This is highly unusual. Possibly she was the strongest personality or of Roman nobility. In Acts 18:2, Aquila is said to be Jewish, but never Priscilla. They were forced to leave Rome under Emperor Claudius' edict in A.D. 49. They met and befriended Paul in Corinth and followed him to Ephesus. The three of them were tent makers.


"took him aside" This term is used to describe someone being accepted or received as a friend. It is uncertain how or where Priscilla and Aquila did this for Apollos. They may have talked to him privately or taken him home with them. Notice they did not embarrass him or challenge him publicly!

"explained to him the way of God more accurately" He was teachable, which is rare for gifted, educated humans! He obviously responded to their fuller information about Jesus.


-Too much pontificating and philosophizing-"downing members" just to make a point-win the argument.

We need more Pricilla's and Aquila's to help us rightly cutting straight the D'varim of YHVH in the sphere of the Ruach HaKodesh.

My 2 cents-for what it's worth.
Johann.
 
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face2face

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You are nit-picking the members.
A hint of acceptence there Johann? Members who come out strong rarely ever give ground in discussion like this.

Apollos
"an eloquent man" This term in Koine Greek can mean either eloquent or educated. In the Septuagint logios is used of the oracles of God. Apollos was obviously more gifted in public speaking (Greek rhetoric) than Paul (compare 1 Cor. 1:17; 2:1; 2 Cor. 10:10; and 11:6). He was a powerful preacher!

"and he was mighty in the Scriptures" The term "Scriptures" refers to the OT (cf. 1 Thess. 2:13; 2 Tim. 3:16; 1 Pet. 1:23-25; 2 Pet. 1:20-21), with the exception of 2 Pet. 3:15-16, where Paul's writings (by analogy) are attributed inspired status. Apollos knew his OT well.
Yes, as previously stated. What he knew was truth - it was not the whole truth, but part thereof.

The word "mighty" is dunatos, which is used of Jesus' might in word and deed in Luke 24:19, and of Moses in Acts 7:22.

18:25 "This man had been instructed" This is a PERIPHRASTIC PLUPERFECT PASSIVE (cf. Luke 1:4). He had been trained in the teachings of Jesus, but only up to a certain level or time period. Curtis Vaughan, Acts, p. 118, footnote #2, lists the things Apollos may have known and preached.

John was the forerunner of the Messiah.

He pointed out the Messiah as the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah.

I also think that repentance was probably emphasized in his preaching because it was in both John's and Jesus' preaching.

"in the way of the Lord" "The way" was the first title used to describe the followers of Jesus in Acts (cf. Acts 9:2; 19:9,23; 22:4; 24:14,22; John 14:6). It was used often in the OT (cf. Deut. 5:32-33; 31:29; Ps. 27:11; Isa. 35:8), where it speaks of lifestyle faith. It is uncertain whether it has that meaning in this text (cf. Acts 18:26).

Apollos also knew something about Jesus, but apparently it was His early earthly ministry and not the post-Calvary, post-resurrection gospel.
Correct. As previously stated he needed to undestand the mechanics of how people are saved through the atonement sacrifice of Christ.
"being fervent in spirit" This is literally "burning in spirit." This phrase is meant to describe the enthusiasm of Apollos for what he did know and understand about the life and teachings of Jesus.

"being acquainted only with the baptism of John" This phrase about Apollos may have been the literary technique that Luke used to introduce the followers of John in Acts 19:1-7. There were several heresies that developed in first century Palestine connected with John the Baptist's teaching and preaching.

John was the last OT prophet who prepared for the coming of the Messiah (cf. Isa. 40:3; Matt. 3:3), but he was not the first gospel preacher. If Apollos' preaching focused too much on John, then he missed the full significance of Jesus. Both John and Jesus emphasized "repentance," "faith," and "godly living." Both initially called the Jews to a new commitment to faith and practice (covenant faithfulness and personal faith in YHWH). However, Jesus' message developed into the bold assertion of His central place (e.g., John 10 and 14), possibly this is what Apollos lacked.

Am I downing Apollos? Notice the "possible-this is what Apollos lacked?" Would be to God there are more Apollos's today and godly "correctors" to help us through the Holy Spirit to expound the Way more fully!

18:26 "he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue" This VERB is used of Paul speaking to the Jews in the synagogue in Acts 13:46; 14:3; 19:8 and before Festus in Acts 26:26. Apollos was a powerful and effective preacher.

"in the synagogue" Notice Priscilla and Aquila were also there. This was Paul's regular custom also.


"Priscilla and Aquila" She is mentioned first several times, Acts 18:18,26; Rom. 16:3; 2 Tim. 4:19. This is highly unusual. Possibly she was the strongest personality or of Roman nobility. In Acts 18:2, Aquila is said to be Jewish, but never Priscilla. They were forced to leave Rome under Emperor Claudius' edict in A.D. 49. They met and befriended Paul in Corinth and followed him to Ephesus. The three of them were tent makers.


"took him aside" This term is used to describe someone being accepted or received as a friend. It is uncertain how or where Priscilla and Aquila did this for Apollos. They may have talked to him privately or taken him home with them. Notice they did not embarrass him or challenge him publicly!

"explained to him the way of God more accurately" He was teachable, which is rare for gifted, educated humans! He obviously responded to their fuller information about Jesus.


-Too much pontificating and philosophizing-"downing members" just to make a point-win the argument.

We need more Pricilla's and Aquila's to help us rightly cutting straight the D'varim of YHVH in the sphere of the Ruach HaKodesh.

My 2 cents-for what it's worth.
Johann.
I think this is first Johann - agree without reservation
F2F
 

Johann

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A hint of acceptence there Johann? Members who come out strong rarely ever give ground in discussion like this.
Can we sheath our swords-stop parrying, and work together, for our edification and the edification of others?
I'm NOT advocating to compromise on the Scriptures and we all have a lot to learn, wouldn't you think?
Thanks
Johann.
 

Robert Gwin

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Odd that you would choose that scripture. Not even a 'command".
Not clear what it has to do with the topic of discussion either.
Can you connect the dots for us? Thanks.

Hebrews 10:24-25 NIV
And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds,
25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—
and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
That is why it is beneficial to use multiple versions sir, for understanding

ejgkataleivpw Egkataleipo (eng-kat-al-i'-po);
Word Origin: Greek, Verb, Strong #: 1459
abandon, desert
leave in straits, leave helpless
totally abandoned, utterly forsaken
to leave behind among, to leave surviving
KJV Word Usage and Count
forsake 7
leave 2

Heb 10:25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as the custom of some is ASV
 

Wrangler

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Wrangler's sects doctrine is to disbelieve the "pretense" of doctrinal purity.
Exactly! You believe the pretence of doctrinal purity that is absent from the Bible IN TERMS OF A CONDITION OF SALVATION.

IDOLATORS like you make "doctrinal purity" more than what the Bible makes of it. Plain and Simple.

Again, I point out Jesus said, "Follow me" period. He did not say, "Follow me and believe this pure list of doctrines."
 

Wrangler

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@Wrangler is it just me, is the spirit of these men Pharisaical?
It's not just you.

These modern day Pharisees of the law do not know the damage they do to the Kingdom of God. Such an unaccepting, arrogant and intolerant lot that brings rigidity and stops the spread of the life giving Spirit of God.

I only got 19 of 20 doctrinal questions right --> OFF WITH MY HEAD. NO SALVATION FOR ME.

You only got 39 of 40 doctrinal questions right --> OFF WITH YOUR HEAD. NO SALVATION FOR YOU.

Others get only 47 of 50 doctrinal questions right --> OFF WITH THEIR HEAD. NO SALVATION FOR THEM.

Wait a minute. Who do these pompous a$$es think they are? They obviously have a God complex and violate God's law by so judging. By putting oneself in the position to judge "doctrinal purity" you failed God's basic requirement of humility and helpfulness. The Son of God came to this world, not to condemn it, but to save it per John 3:17. If God's son - who is the lord of heaven and Earth - is not condemning us, I ask again, Who do these pompous a$$es think they are? Shame on them and may God forgive them.


Do Not Pass Judgment on One Another
14 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.
Romans 14:1

Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.
Romans 14:13

11 Do not speak evil against one another, brothers.[a] The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 12 There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?
James 4:11-12