Wrangler
Well-Known Member
The grace of Christ is sufficient to save me.
But we are not talking about salvation.
Have you ever heard of backsliding? Saved people who revert to their old ways = not fully sanctified.
The (potential) Treachery of Doctrine > My way, or the highway >
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
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But we are not talking about salvation.
Have you ever heard of backsliding? Saved people who revert to their old ways = not fully sanctified.
Here's a curious verse that is avoided. Jesus said...
Context below that. Who is this speaking to? Believers, or unbelievers?
Mark 9:49 NIV
Everyone will be salted with fire.
Mark 9:47-49 NIV
And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out.
It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye
than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where
“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’[a]
49 Everyone will be salted with fire.
Yes, but when you die, that's it. There is no work you can perform to redeem yourself. You can never redeem yourself. Only Christ can redeem you.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I agree. Redemption comes only through Jesus Christ.
What is being discussed is what happens in the age of restoration in the afterlife.
Hopefully you are familiar with this scripture? When does this take place?
1 Corinthians 3:11-13 NIV
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light.
It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work.
This is a great point. A sure sign of doctrinal 'invincibility' is the unwillingness to be corrected in any point. We're not talking about the whole doctrine, but even the slightest detail must never be touched. It's as though the whole house of cards would come falling down like humpty dumpty off his high wall.
I believe the truth is, that the guiding of the Spirit into all truth of God's word, includes the willingness to be aided by the spiritual insights and corrections of other Christians from things written. That ought also include babes who now have the same Spirit of Christ as all born again saints of God.
And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?
Most adults are more than glad to be amazed at some of the most sensical insights blurted out of harmless little children, but do not extend the same courtesy to any other babe in Christ, if their own greatly matured doctrine comes under scrutiny.
This is not advocacy for agreeing with everyone, but rather a caution not to be found a fool unwilling to simply receive 'doctrinal' correction.
I have seen otherwise honest Christians go through any length and plumb any depth to avoid being Biblically corrected in the slightest. That includes doctrine and prophecy. I have seen some Christians suspending normal natural intelligence, and even common grammar, rather than be corrected in any jot and tittle of personal belief about the Bible.
Some of it is average pride, that we can all be influenced by within ourselves. However I believe the more 'violent' sort of refusal to be corrected, comes from Christians who put all their conscience and trust in their personal doctrine, because they trust in their doctrine alone to be saved and going to heaven.
Excellent! It's far better to do good, than to insist we are doctrinally perfect.
This is a good insight into the difference between faith-alone Christianity and living by faith Christians. One is all about personal doctrinal knowledge to soothe the conscience, and the other is all about knowledge of Bible doctrine to live like Christ.
One has a clear conscience at all times, only because their doctrine says so, and the other always a clear conscience when living the life of Christ.
Great point, Thanks much. I have learned something here, that I had not thought of before. I personally love it when my knowledge of God's word is increased, not just by the Spirit Himself when reading and thinking on the Bible, but by the Spirit through other members of the body of Christ. I have also been corrected in some minor and several major ways, that has produced great fruit, not only in perfecting the doctrine of Christ, but also in how to live and grow in Christ.
The same inspiring Spirit flows through Christ's body, even as the cleansing blood of Jesus. And so, any correction of the truth should not be despised from any other member, as though we were the Head ourselves. That includes the least of our members uttering true things not at all hard to be understood, but just not according to our previous understanding.
And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
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All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
God's chastisement for His sons includes correction in doctrine and instruction in righteousness.
Temptation to be endured, therefore, includes willingness to be corrected doctrinally.
Not receiving honest and true correction from the Bible, is the sin of fools not allowing God's own words to change and renew our minds in the truth of Christ.
If we can't be corrected doctrinally to rule our minds, then we can't be fully transformed into the image of Christ.
Rebellion against the righteousness of God, includes rebellion against the Spirit of truth.
God's chastisement for His sons includes correction in doctrine and instruction in righteousness.
Temptation to be endured, therefore, includes willingness to be corrected doctrinally.
Not receiving honest and true correction from the Bible, is the sin of fools not allowing God's own words to change and renew our minds in the truth of Christ.
If we can't be corrected doctrinally to rule our minds, then we can't be fully transformed into the image of Christ.
Rebellion against the righteousness of God, includes rebellion against the Spirit of truth.
This is actually a good topic to reintroduce. Only six pages to date.
Let's see some fresh responses to the OP. (opening post)
And this related topic as well.
www.christianityboard.com
Quote from the OP.
Typical statements of biblical/doctrinal conceit:
- "Haven't you read the Bible?"
- "God told me..."
- "Who should I believe; you, or God?"
- "God's Word disagrees with you."
/
Let's see some fresh responses to the OP. (opening post)
And this related topic as well.
The potential conceit of doctrinal individuality
Exploring the many facets of the issues of doctrinal unity and individuality. Issues range from the dictates of religious institutional tyranny on one extreme end of the spectrum, to freewheeling excesses of biblical interpretation on the other extreme end. Seeking balance somewhere in the...
www.christianityboard.com
Quote from the OP.
Typical statements of biblical/doctrinal conceit:
- "Haven't you read the Bible?"
- "God told me..."
- "Who should I believe; you, or God?"
- "God's Word disagrees with you."
/
God's church?
What does that mean? As opposed to what?
A passage in Isaiah speaks about The Temple.
Is that what you mean by "God's church"?
/
What is the fire?
Heb12:29 For our God is a consuming fire
Consider who is slain here by the fire’s heat. What is burned up and what remains?
Da 3:20 And he commanded the most mighty men that were in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, and to cast them into the burning fiery furnace.
Da 3:21 Then these men were bound in their coats, their hosen, and their hats, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
Da 3:22 Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
Da 3:23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
Da 3:24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
Da 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.
For us the fire should be trimming off the garbage now, that is the wood, hay and straw; and slaying the mighty powers of the flesh which oppose the new man; and burning away the cords which hold us in any sinful ways...
That's an interesting way to look at it. I assumed what was done was done and would be burned up later.
And of course we need to improve as we go. Applying ourselves to doing the works God calls us to do.
But I like the aggressive approach you are suggesting here.
What would the practical application to this be?
How does one burn away the cords and trim off the garbage now?
/
Does not the two-edged sword, the Word of God, cut two ways? Is there
not a left hand of God as well as a right hand?
I think most get a bit of a jolt initially to jump start their Christian life.
But the rest may be hard won.
What was your experience?
/
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Much of the bible cannot be understood, One MUST be taught by these( Matt 24:45) Its Gods will. Its why hundreds of different religions claiming to be Christian are looking like a mass of confusion to all creation, because they are a mass of confusion, 99% of them lack holy spirit, that is why. One out of those hundreds has Jesus( 1 Cor 1:10
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Lambano
Well-Known Member
I hear testimonies of people who came to Christ and immediately obtained victory over swearing (as if that were their greatest sin?) or porn and so on. I don't have a testimony like that.
Well...
You best get with it then, buddy! - LOL
Funny how we think it is some sort of a competition. We can even be envious of someone with an exciting testimony.
But then you hear those with the dramatic testimonies being very impressed with those who came along a calmer path.
Seems envy goes both directions. I suppose we should all be satisfied to be ourselves. A job no one else can do.
/
Lambano
Well-Known Member
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