The problem with the thousand years?

[Marty fox]

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Marty fox said: ↑
Revelation 17:16-17
16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked;they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled

After Gods purpose was fulfilled by the beast God judged the beast and cast the demonic being into the lake of fire and then Rome eventually fell

We know that it had to be a demon who was cast into the lake of fire because it happens before the judgement day and this can only happen to demons not people

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I don't agree with either your interpretation of the verses viz it referring to a "demonic being", or with the century you place the fulfillment in. I also don't agree that only demons are cast into the LoF. I believe the LoF is the second death which we read about at the close of Revelation 20, when the souls of those (humans) whose names are not found in the Lamb's Book of Life, are thrown into it. I believe the LoF is the place which Jesus referred to frequently as gehenna (not hades, which is the abode of dead souls who did not die in Christ & which is seen delivering up the souls in them at the close of Revelation 20). I believe that those who worship the beast or receive its mark will go straight to the LoF, a thousand years before the rest:

Revelation 14
9 And a third angel followed them, saying with a great voice, If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark in his forehead or in his hand,
10 he also will drink of the wine of the anger of God, having been mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints. Here are the ones who keep the commandments of God and
the faith of Jesus.

I believe that the beast in a human kingdom with 10 kings under the rulership of a man who is a.k.a the Antichrist (the 8th king in Revelation 17), and the false prophet is another political entity, possibly Israel, possibly "the church" (I don't know which, but one of those two).

I believe the beast will only raise it's ugly head 3.5 years before the return of Christ.

So we're way far apart in all the above.

This below is an example and I believe the fulfillment of

Revelation 17:16-17
. 16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked;they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled

Luke 19:41-44
41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Word (Thousand) represents (Uncertain Affinity) Not A Literal 1,000 Years As You Claim, Its Speaking Of The Lords Eternal Realm Of "No Time" Its That Simple

You really dispose of normal definitions to retranslate the Word of God. Have the last word if you wish, for I am done with you on this thread as well. You are extremely dishonest in using grammar. I believe we should not take your words as literal but non literal.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

And he gathers all teh nations and separates them between the sheep and goats. then He judges the goats and welcome the sheep and raises the saints who didn't take th emark so they can reign with Him for 24 hours, then He raises the unjust, judges them all as well and does all this ini 24 hours!

 

[Zao is life]

What I mean is that revelation 20 says that all people would be judged on the judgement day before being cast into the lake of fire thus its demons that can be cast into the lake of fire before the judgement day

No because Revelation 14 warns humans that if they worship the beast or receive its mark they will be tormented with fire and brimstone for ever and ever.

 

[Zao is life]

It’s not a matter of if they repent or not but can they repent. Yes they can because of the scriptures that promise salvation to all who believe in Jesus. None of those verses say unless you have the mark of the beast

Revelation 14 does warn humans that they will be tormented in fire and brimstone forever and ever if they worship the beast or receive his mark.

 

[Timtofly]

Maybe you missed my point about the mark being literal would mean that John 3:16 can’t stand. You just made a statement without addressing my point that salvation is to all who repent. The point isn’t will they repent or not it’s can they?

Can any of these verses below stand if the mark is literal?

Romans 10:13

for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved


John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life


1John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

None of them say unless they have the mark.

Let the scriptures interpret the scriptures as they can’t contradict one another

Do you think that many today can become reprobate?

It has everything to do with the timing. After the Second Coming repentance is not an option. One will literally have to choose between the One sitting on the throne and Satan.

The mark is a mark of solidarity that one has passed the point of no repentance. It is officially settled.

On the flip side, to choose God is to get one's head chopped off. It is the only step of faith available. One cannot recieve the mark if one's head is chopped off. Will those with their head chopped off understand they will be resurrected again? Will that not be similar to those having faith now, that we will have a future resurrection? All have to physically die first.

What many fail to see is that by the time Armageddon happens only those with the mark will remain alive. The only resurrection is in Revelation 20. There is no resurrection in Revelation 19. The resurrection is also after Satan is bound.

 

[Zao is life]

This below is an example and I believe the fulfillment of

Revelation 17:16-17
. 16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked;they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled

Luke 19:41-44
41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

Yes, but Jerusalem becomes the type of the apostate church which will follow after the son of perdition, who, if you take the Greek words for what they mean, will seat himself up in the tabernacle of God, which is the church.

Jerusalem is our example. Those who call themselves Christians at the end of this Age yet practice the lawlessness of the man of sin/son of perdition in the apostasy of the final days, do not get away with what the Jews did not get away with at the close of "their" Age.

 

[Zao is life]

Do you think that many today can become reprobate?

It has everything to do with the timing. After the Second Coming repentance is not an option. One will literally have to choose between the One sitting on the throne and Satan.

The mark is a mark of solidarity that one has passed the point of no repentance. It is officially settled.

On the flip side, to choose God is to get one's head chopped off. It is the only step of faith available. One cannot recieve the mark if one's head is chopped off. Will those with their head chopped off understand they will be resurrected again? Will that not be similar to those having faith now, that we will have a future resurrection? All have to physically die first.

What many fail to see is that by the time Armageddon happens only those with the mark will remain alive. The only resurrection is in Revelation 20. There is no resurrection in Revelation 19. The resurrection is also after Satan is bound.

Yes. Jesus is our Ark. The flood waters will not be delayed a day later than the appointed day. On that day, you're either in the Ark, or you perish.

 

[Timtofly]

The end of what? It could mean many different things

I don’t think that Antiochus Epehanies fulfilled 70AD he was a few hundred years before that

Jesus did say within that generation and it actually happened within that generation.


Why is there no New Testament reference to the 70Th week?

Anytime that there is no New testament backing of a prophecy from the Old Testament there is a reason for it and that is most likely because it was fulfilled in the Old Testament times.

First of all there is no 7 year tribulation mentioned anywhere is the bible. We also have to ask ourselves does God want a future temple built and sacrifices reestablished since He put a stop to them back in 70AD by allowing the temple to be destroyed because Jesus fulfilled everything the temple stood for?

If a future temple will be built it will not be Gods temple but mans as we the church are now Gods temple. Thus if a future antichrist did desecrate a future temple it would not matter to God.

Daniel 9:27
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

The above verse only mentions a 7 year covenant nothing about a tribulation time period. It also mentions that the sacrifice will be stopped at the temple. Twice this has happened after the time Daniel wrote this verse and only once did one person stop it and that was Antiochus Epiphanies back in 167 BC.

Around the time of 170/1 B.C. Onias 3rd is murdered (cut off and has nothing) he was the last of the Zadokite priesthood which was the start of the 70th week.

In 167 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th desecrates the temple ½ way through the 70th week. The abomination that caused desolation.

In 164 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanies 4th dies and the temple sacrifice is reestablished the end of the 70th week. (the end is poured out on him)

We have to ask ourselves who would the Jews living at that time think Daniel was writing about as Daniel was writing to the Jews and not to us?

I believe that the 70th week was fulfilled back during the times of the Maccabees and history matches exactly what Daniel prophesied

You just claimed Onias was the Messiah.

Jesus Christ and His Revelation as Messiah and Prince is the 70th week.

 

[Marty fox]

No because Revelation 14 warns humans that if they worship the beast or receive its mark they will be tormented with fire and brimstone for ever and ever.

If so then John 3:16 can’t stand so let’s let scripture interpret scripture

 

[Marty fox]

You just claimed Onias was the Messiah.

Jesus Christ and His Revelation as Messiah and Prince is the 70th week.

No just one of the many anointed ones

 

[Timtofly]

That is a matter of translations but tabernacle means dwelling place and God doesn’t dwell in a literal temple anymore He dwells within us

Your quote from Matthew 25 is on the judgement day after God has destroyed our current world with fire thus Jerusalem is no more

Matthew 25 is not the GWT. For one, God is sitting on the GWT and can be seen at the same time Christ is sitting on the throne in Jerusalem.

For Christ to be sitting on the throne in Jerusalem, many leave out this tiny little detail that Christ is literally in a physical body sitting on a physical throne in physical Jerusalem. So the earth is still physically present.

No where does Jesus claim this time of Judgment is in the New Jerusalem. You are applying the wrong event, and the wrong throne to Matthew 25.

The word throne does not mean every time throne is used, this is the same event for every reference to throne found in Scripture. One has to use context to see which throne and time is being addressed.

 

[Timtofly]

Pretty hard to have the souls, and the dead populate a Millennial Kingdom on this earth without bodies

Pretty hard to have a kingdom any where without physical bodies.

Was Abraham's bosom a kingdom?

 

[Zao is life]

If so then John 3:16 can’t stand so let’s let scripture interpret scripture

God's grace never has been and never will be an excuse for lawlessness. There are enough warnings in the New Testament both from Jesus and His apostles in the epistles that there is no OSAS for those who turn away, or for those who use grace as a license for lawlessness.

@Marty fox For example, read Revelation 3:16, not only John 3:16 and let scripture interpret scripture.

 

[Timtofly]

So God owns the cattle on just one thousand literal hills, not all hills?

Big Smiles!

Psalm 50:10KJV
10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

By your logic the Millennium should be 1000 + 1 years?

I agree the Millennium should be all the 1000 years that are included in the term Millennium. Not one year shorter.

 

[Timtofly]

I realize many church members here in the US today believe that they are suffering persecution and are under some type of tribulations that warrant Jesus’s return to be for this time, but this is just crazy. This is about the most spoiled generation since the beginning of all recorded history, the current definition for persecution seems to be if someone doesn’t see things as I do then their persecuting me.

No, many in the US realize persecution is in many parts of the world.

If your realization is limited to the scope of the US, then you need to include more nations in your scope of reality.

 

[Timtofly]

The subject isnt about what you believe literal time is, it's about the word "Chilioi" and its interpretation (Uncertain Affinity)

The Greek word "Chilioi" was used in 2 Peter 3:8 and in Revelation 20:1-7

The definition is (Uncertain Affinity) not a literal thousand years on this earth as many claim

Strong’s Definitions
χίλιοι chílioi, khil'-ee-oy; plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:—thousand.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 11x
The KJV translates Strong's G5507 in the following manner: thousand (11x).

Thousand = Uncertain Affinity

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-7KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Can you quote a few Greek texts, without changing the word to the spelling you claim?

 

[Timtofly]

Just to make things clear "Again" at no time have I claimed satan is currently bound from evil in this world, nor is he locked up and bound from roaming to and fro in the earth as a lion as scripture teaches

I have made my point very clear, that satan is currently bound in Revelation 20:3 from (One Thing Only) that is (Deceiving The Nations) to the future final battle as seen in Revelation 20:7-8

Does Satan bring back sin with him at the end of the 1000 years?

What is Satan decieving these nations with to turn their hearts against God? A million dollars?

 

[Waiting on him]

Does Satan bring back sin with him at the end of the 1000 years?

What is Satan decieving these nations with to turn their hearts against God? A million dollars?

He’d convinced most that Cesar was king.

 

[Zao is life]

Quiz: How many chílioi before the argument about the meaning of chílioi is over?

1 chílioi
5 chílioi
a thousand chílioi
I don't know?