The Problem With The Trinity

[Nancy]

Good for you my sister, too many have been so fixated on what they have been taught (through the doctrines and precepts of men) that they now live in the fear of men, fearful that should they believe contrary to the popular view point (orthodoxy) they will be ostracized and cast out from amoungst their friends and neighbors (fellow believers), yet the choice is yours are you more concern with what man thinks of you or what God thinks of you? Whom do you love more?

It is a wise lesson for all to learn, that one should never drive ones tent pegs so deep in the ground that one cannot remove them, in other words we should never become so dogmatic about our own personal view point that if presented with another point which appears to be more accurate i.e. more in harmony with the scriptures than our own that we are unable to change of our thoughts on the issue (remove our pegs) and accept that which is clearly shown to be a superior or more accurate view point.

Agreed. As long as God is foremost and our hearts are sincere, He WILL show us. God's timing was almost immediate on this one, all I had to do was see the name of an old time preacher who almost knocked me off the rails a couple decades ago. Those memories flooded back like it was yesterday, and that "peace that surpasses all understanding" (which, BTW-yes, I know it is beyond any peace the world offers) sure enough came over me and then a smile and praise of gratitude to our AWESOME God!

 

[APAK]

Apak....you are just spewing here. You are not looking at the text but just reacting in the flesh. You throwing a fit does not mean anything. You should realize that. In person maybe you think your reactions have an impact....but here...you are ignoring the truth and you can't even look at it. Engage the argument...by using the text. Or...don't respond.

But I know that there is no argument against what I wrote...just reactions against the truth.

"There's no argument against what I have wrote.."..are you kidding me! Hello in there.(tap, tap).. I just did and several others have arguments against your beliefs. What planet are you on.

There's no spewing, no fits required. You are just not accustomed to someone in your face when needed. I'm trying to do you a favor. You are just being delusional my friend.

I just want to let you know that what I see, when you read scripture that seems to fit into your 2nd person trinity belief system, no matter if forced, a marquee, permanently attached to the front of your head reads 'Jesus equals God' from right to left across your eyes balls and into your brain. It is attached permanently to your head and your eyes cannot see past it. just say you are quite stubborn my friend.

Just chill a bit and instead of just being defensive take a few zzzz and just read what I or other folks have sent you. You have nothing to lose as Trump would say.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Episkopos]

"There's no argument against what I have wrote.."..are you kidding me! Hello in there.(tap, tap).. I just did and several others have arguments against your beliefs. What planet are you on.

There's no spewing, no fits required. You are just not accustomed to someone in your face when needed. I'm trying to do you a favor. You are just being delusional my friend.

I just want to let you know that what I see, when you read scripture that seems to fit into your 2nd person trinity belief system, no matter if forced, a marquee, permanently attached to the front of your head reads 'Jesus equals God' from right to left across your eyes balls and into your brain. It is attached permanently to your head and your eyes cannot see past it. just say you are quite stubborn my friend.

Just chill a bit and instead of just being defensive take a few zzzz and just read what I or other folks have sent you. You have nothing to lose as Trump would say.

Bless you,

APAK

I just see more venting...clouds but no rain. Posturing without substance. Stubborn? My goodness....you see others as stubborn when they don't let themselves be steamrolled by ...whatever you say? Please. Where is the text? Comment on the comment. Don't just look to ridicule. That itself is ridiculous.

If there is no legit argument, what are you still doing commenting?

 

[justbyfaith]

@APAK,

First you have to change the wording so that it says father of eternity..and then you change the wording again so that it says father of the coming age.

My conclusion: the only way you can defend your presuppostion that Jesus isn't God is by changing the wording of scripture (twice in that verse).

The original Greek or Hebrew says this...

You have now set yourself up as the expert in Greek and Hebrew that the common believer has to listen to in order to get the real message of what the scripture says and teaches...I have for quite some time seen this shennanigan as an attempt to produce a cult-like following in those people who claim to be the ones who can tell you what the Greek and Hebrew really mean...as though the translators of our Bibles were incompetent and couldn't get it right when they were doing their job (and btw, I certainly believe that the translators of the kjv did their job with a certain fear of the LORD in their hearts...they were therefore highly motivated not to get it wrong...I'm not so sure this was true of the creators of other versions, such as the NIV, which had a professed lesbian on their team).

The common people heard Jesus gladly, while the educated scribes and Pharisees rejected Him.

In some people's minds, it is only those who are educated in the original languages that can know and understand the real message of scripture...thus reversing the way the Bible says things work.

Now I am not saying that being educated is necessarily bad...but I am saying that God made it out in such a way that even if you are not educated, you can still get the unadulterated message of the gospel in the whole counsel of God. The Bibles that we read in English are valid and are holy scripture (especially the kjv: because I have seen certain other versions translate things in such a way as to promote abject heresy, in fulfillment of the prophecies in 1 Timothy 4:1-2 and 2 Peter 2:1-2); because God is sovereign and Omnipotent and loving: and therefore He would have preserved His word (because the original autographs have been lost to us) in at least one translation of scripture in every language: and if other translations were created that promote the devil's concept of things: He would have had certain people in His body contend for the translation that has His unadulterated word to the highest degree, that it is to be believed and obeyed over and above other translations (which is what He did with the introduction to the church of the kjv-only controversy).

 

[gadar perets]

You don't read Hebrew. If you did you would realize that there are NO capital letters for anyone including God.

Had you truly read my post you would know that that is exactly what I said. I wrote, "Your post shows the article "the" does NOT belong in the translation and it shows that Hebrew does NOT use capital letters. ".

Interestingly, the Septuagint renders the verse as follows;

Isaiah 9:6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.​

Is the Hebrew text from which the Greek Septuagint was translated a corrupted text or is the Hebrew from which the KJV is translated a corrupted text?

And a name has the "EL" ....ATTACHED to the adjective.

When the El is separate it relates directly to God...like EL SHADDAI....2 words...relating to God (EL) and an adjective (SHADDAI).

If that was to be a name of a human being it would be attached like this... ELSHADDAI.

So then learn that Hebrew has a name ATTACHED to "EL." And a descriptive of God has the "EL" detached as 2 words.


So then this is exactly true of El Gibor...

אֵ֣ל גִּבֹּ֔ור = el gibbowr = Mighty God

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of YHWH of hosts will perform this. ​

If your view is correct, then how do you explain the FACTS that YHWH gave us this "son" (He didn't give Himself), that YHWH gave him the throne of David (He did give Himself that throne which is a lesser throne than the one He sits on in heaven), and that YHWH put the government on the sons shoulders (not on His own shoulders) and that this son is going to turn the Kingdom government back over to his Father after death is destroyed and then will be subject to his Father YHWH for all eternity (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)?

 

[Episkopos]

Had you truly read my post you would know that that is exactly what I said. I wrote, "Your post shows the article "the" does NOT belong in the translation and it shows that Hebrew does NOT use capital letters. ".

Had you read my response you would have read about El being part of the word or separate.

Interestingly, the Septuagint renders the verse as follows;

Isaiah 9:6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.
Is the Hebrew text from which the Greek Septuagint was translated a corrupted text or is the Hebrew from which the KJV is translated a corrupted text?

Do you know who translated the Hebrew into the Greek for the Septuagint? The Jews. So then they are going to put in their bias. But the MSS keeps the offensive text intact.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of YHWH of hosts will perform this.
If your view is correct, then how do you explain the FACTS that YHWH gave us this "son" (He didn't give Himself), that YHWH gave him the throne of David (He did give Himself that throne which is a lesser throne than the one He sits on in heaven), and that YHWH put the government on the sons shoulders (not on His own shoulders) and that this son is going to turn the Kingdom government back over to his Father after death is destroyed and then will be subject to his Father YHWH for all eternity (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)?

The Father has given the Son all authority...since He is ELYON...the most High...not involved in direct governance. A quick study of the NT would show you this.

MAt. 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

The government is surely on the shoulder of Jesus.

 

[gadar perets]

In John 17:3 the Greek word for "and" is "kai" which can be translated "even". So John 17:3 might read,

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, even Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

That makes absolutely no sense.

Truth - John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Yeshua Messiah, whom thou hast sent.
Error - John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, even Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.​

The reason no other Bible versions that I am aware uses "even" is because it is wrong to do so. Do you know of a version that uses "even"?

The only true God is worshiped by the Son. YHWH is Yeshua's God. (Matthew 27:46; John 20:17; Revelation 3:12).

 

[gadar perets]

“Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” 36 He answered and said, “And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” 37 Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.” 38 And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.” John 9:35-38 NASB <---- If Jesus is not God, why is He allowing Himself to be worshiped?

Why are the believers in Revelation 3:9 allowing those of the synagogue of Satan to "worship" them? Are they God? You do not understand the word "worship" and how it was used throughout the Bible. If you want to know the truth about "worship", just ask and I'll explain it more thoroughly. If you would rather remain blind, so be it. I am here to help you.

“

For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.” Colossians 2:9

<--- How do you explain this one?

I believe it wholeheartedly. All the fullness of the Father's Spirit was IN Yeshua. The Son is not the Deity. The Deity was IN the Son. That is why 2 Corinthians 5:19 says, "To wit, that God was in Messiah reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation." God was NOT the Messiah, but was IN the Messiah through His indwelling Holy Spirit.

“I and the Father are one.” 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” John 10:30-33

<----

Jesus never deny's this.

Of course he denied it.

John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
​

They said he claimed to be God and he said he claimed to be the "Son of God".

“And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.” John 1:14

<----- Who else besides Jesus could this be talking about?

No one else. It is definitely talking about the Son. Prior to Yeshua's conception the "logos"/"word" was a thing (YHWH's spoken words, thoughts and plans), not a person.

 

[gadar perets]

Do you know who translated the Hebrew into the Greek for the Septuagint? The Jews. So then they are going to put in their bias. But the MSS keeps the offensive text intact.

The Septuagint was translated long before Yeshua was born. They had no reason to put their own bias into the text.

The Father has given the Son all authority...since He is ELYON...the most High...not involved in direct governance. A quick study of the NT would show you this.

MAt. 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.

The government is surely on the shoulder of Jesus.

Of course it is and of course his Father gave it to him. That is my point. Father YHWH gave that authority to his Son. He did not give that authority to Himself. He already had all authority.

 

[Episkopos]

The Septuagint was translated long before Yeshua was born. They had no reason to put their own bias into the text.


Of course it is and of course his Father gave it to him. That is my point. Father YHWH gave that authority to his Son. He did not give that authority to Himself. He already had all authority.

The Jews have always been very practical. They would not have understood how a person who is born a man could be called those things. They didn't understand how God can do the "impossible". Strange, considering they believe in the OT miracles...

 

[justbyfaith]

Had you truly read my post you would know that that is exactly what I said. I wrote, "Your post shows the article "the" does NOT belong in the translation and it shows that Hebrew does NOT use capital letters. ".

Interestingly, the Septuagint renders the verse as follows;

Isaiah 9:6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.​

Is the Hebrew text from which the Greek Septuagint was translated a corrupted text or is the Hebrew from which the KJV is translated a corrupted text?

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of YHWH of hosts will perform this. ​

If your view is correct, then how do you explain the FACTS that YHWH gave us this "son" (He didn't give Himself), that YHWH gave him the throne of David (He did give Himself that throne which is a lesser throne than the one He sits on in heaven), and that YHWH put the government on the sons shoulders (not on His own shoulders) and that this son is going to turn the Kingdom government back over to his Father after death is destroyed and then will be subject to his Father YHWH for all eternity (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)?

It is the primary tactic of satan that when the word of God has him defeated, he will question the word of God. As he said to Eve, "Hath God really said...?"

 

[justbyfaith]

That makes absolutely no sense.

Truth - John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Yeshua Messiah, whom thou hast sent.
Error - John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, even Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.​

The reason no other Bible versions that I am aware uses "even" is because it is wrong to do so. Do you know of a version that uses "even"?

The only true God is worshiped by the Son. YHWH is Yeshua's God. (Matthew 27:46; John 20:17; Revelation 3:12).

I remain unconvinced of your pov (see Hebrews 11:1); for I still believe that Jesus is the Son of God as this is identified by Isaiah 9:6 in the kjv.

 

[justbyfaith]

Why are the believers in Revelation 3:9 allowing those of the synagogue of Satan to "worship" them? Are they God? You do not understand the word "worship" and how it was used throughout the Bible. If you want to know the truth about "worship", just ask and I'll explain it more thoroughly. If you would rather remain blind, so be it. I am here to help you.

Now you have that scripture in Revelation wrong. God said He would cause those of the synagogue of satan to worship Him before their feet, not them. Anyone who is in the church of Philadelphia would not consider it a promise that their enemies might worship them. Their attitude towards being worshipped themselves is what is written in Psalms 115:1. They are one of the most faithful churches in the Book of Revelation; and their attitude towards being worshipped cannot be otherwise than what the scripture says their attitude ought to be.

Of course he denied it.

John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
They said he claimed to be God and he said he claimed to be the "Son of God".

In claiming to be the Son of God, Jesus was not denying that he was also The mighty God, Jehovah (Psalms 50:1) and the Everlasting Father (Matthew 28:19)...see Isaiah 9:6).

No one else. It is definitely talking about the Son. Prior to Yeshua's conception the "logos"/"word" was a thing (YHWH's spoken words, thoughts and plans), not a person.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God; and the Word was God. John 1:1.

So you're saying that God was a thing.

To each his own, I guess.

 

[justbyfaith]

If your view is correct, then how do you explain the FACTS that YHWH gave us this "son" (He didn't give Himself), that YHWH gave him the throne of David (He did give Himself that throne which is a lesser throne than the one He sits on in heaven), and that YHWH put the government on the sons shoulders (not on His own shoulders) and that this son is going to turn the Kingdom government back over to his Father after death is destroyed and then will be subject to his Father YHWH for all eternity (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)?

I gave an answer and then I hit the wrong button on my computer and then lost it all; but I will try to restore the answer by typing the gist of what I said all over again; because it is important that you understand the message (and perseverance is one of the ways that we overcome the enemy when he does stuff like that to us).

Abba, I pray that the answer that I give now will be better and more to Your liking than the original answer that I gave. In Jesus' Name, Amen.

So I begin by pointing out that in John 14:7-11 Jesus said that the Father was in Him and that He was in the Father, and that therefore whosoever hath seen Him hath seen the Father.

Understand that the incarnation of the Father is in that YHWH became a Man. He lived one eternal moment and then descended to become the Son of God...a distinct Person from the Father (who dwells in eternity) and yet the same Person, except that He now dwells in time and in a body of human flesh; since He is the continuation of the pre-incarnate Father. Ephesians 3:11, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Jesus Christ our Lord.

Therefore when Jesus sits on the throne of David as the eternal Son of God, He can indeed be YHWH, who also exists outside of time as Lord of everything: who sovereignly ruled over all for one eternal moment and then descended to continue His existence as His only begotten Son. When all is said and done, and the elements melt with fervent heat and the new heavens and the new earth is formed, Jesus will be sitting on the Father's throne (Revelation 3:21) who He is; since He is the continuation of the Person of the Father in human form. In fact, He is seated on that throne now, and will continue to sit on that throne even when reigning on the throne of David during the millenial reign. For we can be on earth and in heaven at the same time (see John 3:13, Ephesians 2:6); because once we have lived our lives on earth we will enter into eternity which is an eternal now, outside of the realm of the domain of time. Therefore in the now of our time existence, we also exist in eternity in the present moment distinct and separate from our temporal selves, since our eternal existence will be throughout every moment of time and therefore overlapping to our temporal existence.

Furthermore, Jesus is the Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, Mark 12:29); and so is the Father (1 Corinthians 12:3); as we know from scripture that there is only one Lord (Ephesians 4:5).

 

[Nancy]

I gave an answer and then I hit the wrong button on my computer and then lost it all; but I will try to restore the answer by typing the gist of what I said all over again; because it is important that you understand the message (and perseverance is one of the ways that we overcome the enemy when he does stuff like that to us).

Abba, I pray that the answer that I give now will be better and more to Your liking than the original answer that I gave. In Jesus' Name, Amen.

So I begin by pointing out that in John 14:7-11 Jesus said that the Father was in Him and that He was in the Father, and that therefore whosoever hath seen Him hath seen the Father.

Understand that the incarnation of the Father is in that YHWH became a Man. He lived one eternal moment and then descended to become the Son of God...a distinct Person from the Father (who dwells in eternity) and yet the same Person, except that He now dwells in time and in a body of human flesh; since He is the continuation of the pre-incarnate Father. Ephesians 3:11, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Jesus Christ our Lord.

Therefore when Jesus sits on the throne of David as the eternal Son of God, He can indeed be YHWH, who also exists outside of time as Lord of everything: who sovereignly ruled over all for one eternal moment and then descended to continue His existence as His only begotten Son. When all is said and done, and the elements melt with fervent heat and the new heavens and the new earth is formed, Jesus will be sitting on the Father's throne (Revelation 3:21) who He is; since He is the continuation of the Person of the Father in human form. In fact, He is seated on that throne now, and will continue to sit on that throne even when reigning on the throne of David during the millenial reign. For we can be on earth and in heaven at the same time (see John 3:13, Ephesians 2:6); because once we have lived our lives on earth we will enter into eternity which is an eternal now, outside of the realm of the domain of time. Therefore in the now of our time existence, we also exist in eternity in the present moment distinct and separate from our temporal selves, since our eternal existence will be throughout every moment of time and therefore overlapping to our temporal existence.

Furthermore, Jesus is the Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, Mark 12:29); and so is the Father (1 Corinthians 12:3); as we know from scripture that there is only one Lord (Ephesians 4:5).

Wonderful post. You hit on allot of scripture! Thank you, I couldn't have done half as well!

 

[gadar perets]

Now you have that scripture in Revelation wrong. God said He would cause those of the synagogue of satan to worship Him before their feet, not them. Anyone who is in the church of Philadelphia would not consider it a promise that their enemies might worship them.

Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.​

Yeshua was talking to believers. This is referring to worshiping believers, not God.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God; and the Word was God.

John 1:1.

So you're saying that God was a thing.

To each his own, I guess.

"The Word was God" is a false translation that reverses the word order found in the Greek.

καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος
and theos was the word
​

As one of the most popular Greek grammar books says;

"As we have said, word order is employed especially for the sake of emphasis. Generally speaking, when a word is thrown to the front of the clause it is done so for emphasis. When a predicate nominative is thrown in front of the verb, by virtue of word order it takes on emphasis. A good illustration of this is John 1:1c. ... We know that "the Word" is the subject because it has the definite article, and we translate it accordingly: 'and the Word was God.' Two questions, both of theological import, should come to mind: (1) why was θεὸς thrown forward? and (2) why does it lack the article? In brief, its emphatic position stresses its essence or quality: 'What God was, the Word was' is how one translation (Revised English Bible) brings out this force." Mounce, William D. Basics of Biblical Greek Grammar. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2003​

​

 

[gadar perets]

I gave an answer and then I hit the wrong button on my computer and then lost it all; but I will try to restore the answer by typing the gist of what I said all over again; because it is important that you understand the message (and perseverance is one of the ways that we overcome the enemy when he does stuff like that to us).

Abba, I pray that the answer that I give now will be better and more to Your liking than the original answer that I gave. In Jesus' Name, Amen.

So I begin by pointing out that in John 14:7-11 Jesus said that the Father was in Him and that He was in the Father, and that therefore whosoever hath seen Him hath seen the Father.

Understand that the incarnation of the Father is in that YHWH became a Man. He lived one eternal moment and then descended to become the Son of God...a distinct Person from the Father (who dwells in eternity) and yet the same Person, except that He now dwells in time and in a body of human flesh; since He is the continuation of the pre-incarnate Father. Ephesians 3:11, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Jesus Christ our Lord.

Therefore when Jesus sits on the throne of David as the eternal Son of God, He can indeed be YHWH, who also exists outside of time as Lord of everything: who sovereignly ruled over all for one eternal moment and then descended to continue His existence as His only begotten Son. When all is said and done, and the elements melt with fervent heat and the new heavens and the new earth is formed, Jesus will be sitting on the Father's throne (Revelation 3:21) who He is; since He is the continuation of the Person of the Father in human form. In fact, He is seated on that throne now, and will continue to sit on that throne even when reigning on the throne of David during the millenial reign. For we can be on earth and in heaven at the same time (see John 3:13, Ephesians 2:6); because once we have lived our lives on earth we will enter into eternity which is an eternal now, outside of the realm of the domain of time. Therefore in the now of our time existence, we also exist in eternity in the present moment distinct and separate from our temporal selves, since our eternal existence will be throughout every moment of time and therefore overlapping to our temporal existence.

Furthermore, Jesus is the Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, Mark 12:29); and so is the Father (1 Corinthians 12:3); as we know from scripture that there is only one Lord (Ephesians 4:5).

This is just a bunch of philosophy founded upon the false belief that the Father became the Son.

 

[gadar perets]

Wonderful post. You hit on allot of scripture! Thank you, I couldn't have done half as well!

Anyone can quote a lot of Scripture, but that doesn't mean they were used correctly and truthfully.

 

[Taken]

OP --> The Problem with the Trinity

IS that it does not mean the same thing to all people who use that Term.

Catholics have devised a symbol called The Trinity Shield;
This Shield reveals writing declaring "WHO" IS God, while also declaring, who the Father, Son and Holy Spirit ARE NOT, supposedly symbolizing the Doctrine of the Trinity, and Belief Base of Christianity.

It is a confusing Shield To nonChristians, who often come away with an understanding that Christians identify THREE separate entities as Divine and their "godS".

Personally I do NOT, favor the SO-called Catholic Trinity Shield, declaring what/who the Father, Son and Holy Spirit Are NOT.

I believe IN ONE Lord God Almighty, and that All He declares "IS" He Himself, "IS" He Himself, Regardless of WHAT, He Himself directs men TO Call Him at any given Time in History of mankind.

Humans follow after Gods own pattern...
EXAMPLE:

Men have Numerous Names they are called.
A little Child...calls his "father" what?
...daddy....
Why not, Boss? head of household? Mr Jones? Employer? CEO? Neighbor? Forman? Judge? Officer? And on and on, Names that his "daddy" would answer to ...when called by other men.

God Himself, has Many Names and Titles ...
IF an individual chooses To call on God....
God informs men How To call on Him, that He Will Hear/ listen/ consider the mans calling.

First man, Adam, was Spoken TO by God Himself. And Adam Himself Spoke To God and Was Heard By God.

^That changed, For Adam when Adam changed from Obeying Gods Word, and instead elected to Listen To and obey the CreatED instead of The CreatOR.

Revealed IS Moses...WHO being the "natural" daddy of His (Stock/ mans sperm) children, and the symbolic "father" of His g-children, son and daughter in laws) with Moses Being the"head" (father figure" of all the people of his clan.

Moses teaches, "Thee Supreme FATHER" Above, All (earthly fathers/ people) IS Thee Heavenly LORD Himself), who made People, and To not recognize that makes a person Foolish.
Deut 32:6

Revealed is JESUS..."called" God with us, "called" the Son of God.
Matt 1:22

"God WITH us"...is revealed to mankind, IN a fashion Mankind COULD SEE and HEAR.
John 1:10
John 1:14

JESUS, God WITH us...is revealed to mankind, HE IS the WORD of God.
John 1:1
John 1:14

JESUS, God WITH us...is revealed to mankind, BY the POWER of God, JESUS IS the Christ.
Matt 16:17

JESUS, God WITH us, CHRIST..is revealed to mankind, HE "IS" the POWER of God and the WISDOM of God, and Thee TRUE Light.
1 Cor 1:24
John 1:9

JESUS, God WITH us, CHRIST, True Light, Power, Wisdom, The Word of God, "IS" the Truth, Life, Way.
John 14:6

Now...the REALITY....of how MEN fail in comprehension...IN Jesus' day and Today.

Philip, a man, in Jesus' day on earth....
Philip, a man WHO had opportunity to personally follow, SEE and HEAR Jesus, FACE TO FACE....

And Philip says to Jesus....
"Shew us the father"....John 14: 8

And Jesus says to Philip....
"He that HATH SEEM ME, hath SEEN the FATHER".... John 14:9

So HOW does THAT ^^^^ all LINE UP with the Catholic Trinity Shields' "words"....
Of ... the Father IS NOT, the Son IS NOT, the Holy Spirit IS NOT?

IN my OPINION, based ON Scripture, Gods TRUTH.....the Catholic Trinity Shield portrays what IS FALSE.

Thee Supreme Lord God Almighty IS Thee ONE GOD, IS above all other gods, IS called by many Names, IS thee Creator, Maker, True Light, Power, Word, Wisdom, Life, Truth, Way, Giver of Life, Taker of Life, Reconciler of Life, Holy, Just, Merciful and Faithful........ regardless of WHAT NAME HE is CALLED BY at any given period of Time, (such TIME He created FOR mankind).

Philip didn't Understand....nor do MANY men TODAY.

Understanding comes VIA God Himself, to Individuals WHO freely Choose to BELIEVE, BY FAITH, and freely Choose to GIVE their Life TO the Lords Keeping.....Forever.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[justbyfaith]

Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.​

Yeshua was talking to believers. This is referring to worshiping believers, not God.

So you pontificate.

The fact that the synagogue of satan was worshipping before their feet in no way means that they were worshipping the church. It means that they would be worshipping the Lord before their feet; because in Philadelphia, the synagogue of satan has to worship the Lord as a social convention in order to blend in and not be known as the synagogue of satan (because they want to be known as believers for stealth reasons). Also, the Lord's promise is that they who have persecuted them will become actual worshippers of the Lord and this is seen as a good promise because the church at Philadelphia is all about wanting to see other saved to become worshippers of the Lord Jesus Christ. So it is saying that those who were persecuting them previously will become redeemed and will worship the Lord before their feet as they lead them in worship on the stage while those who previously worshipped the devil begin to worship the God of the Philadelphians (thus the promise is of victory in evangelism, even as is also promised to them in other words in the same passage).

"The Word was God" is a false translation that reverses the word order found in the Greek.

καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος
and theos was the word
​

As one of the most popular Greek grammar books says;

"As we have said, word order is employed especially for the sake of emphasis. Generally speaking, when a word is thrown to the front of the clause it is done so for emphasis. When a predicate nominative is thrown in front of the verb, by virtue of word order it takes on emphasis. A good illustration of this is John 1:1c. ... We know that "the Word" is the subject because it has the definite article, and we translate it accordingly: 'and the Word was God.' Two questions, both of theological import, should come to mind: (1) why was θεὸς thrown forward? and (2) why does it lack the article? In brief, its emphatic position stresses its essence or quality: 'What God was, the Word was' is how one translation (Revised English Bible) brings out this force." Mounce, William D. Basics of Biblical Greek Grammar. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2003​

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How does reversing the order to God was the Word, change the meaning of what is written so that it is now suddenly saying that the Word wasn't God?

I would say again that when the devil is defeated by the word of the Lord, his usual tactic is to try to cast doubt on what God has really said (Genesis 3:1).