The Problem With The Trinity

[justbyfaith]

Yes, that would be condemnation if that is what I am saying, but you twist my words and misrepresent me in order to make yourself look correct.

I was not trying to make myself look correct. I was defending the words of another.

I agree that we are justified by faith, not by law, but you choose to falsely accuse me of seeking to be justified by the law because you love doing Satan's work of accusing the brethren.

And you do the work of satan by accusing me of doing the work of satan; for he is the accuser of the brethren; and I am one of the brethren.

That you are not is only evident from John 8:24.

 

[justbyfaith]

You need to clarify your position. Because from all your statements it appears to every one of us that you are teaching that our justification comes through law-keeping. Why else is there all of this emphasis on how we must obey the food laws? If you really believed that we are justified by grace and not by law-keeping, this wouldn't even be an issue for you. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[justbyfaith]

That is one reason.

Therefore the food laws were not given to the nations that Israel was to be separate from.

 

[justbyfaith]

but you choose to falsely accuse me of seeking to be justified by the law because you love doing Satan's work of accusing the brethren.

Also, please back up your statement. Provide a link to every post where I have ever accused you of any sin.

I have not falsely accused you of seeking to be justified by the law. You have falsely accused me of having intentions of malice. I may have merely misunderstood what you were saying. It seems to me that you are indeed preaching law-keeping for justification. And if I am merely mistaken, then I am not taking on the nature of satan in addressing what I believe it is that you are really saying (whether you realize what you are saying is also in question in my mind at this point).

 

[gadar perets]

Sin is the transgression of the law; however, our entrance into the kingdom is through the forgiveness of sins: not through living a sinlessly perfect life.

I agree. That does not give us license to sin. We must avoid sin whenever possible. We don't sin because we know we will be forgiven anyway.

 

[gadar perets]

I accept the findings of the scholars who translated the kjv. I hold His word to be authoritative. The devil seeks to destroy our trust in what we have in English and to make it a backbreaking proposition to get the real message of scripture.

If you want to go on believing the KJV is without error, go right ahead. I certainly will not join you since I have seen all the errors with my own eyes, the removal of YHWH's name from the OT and "Easter" in the NT heading the list.

 

[gadar perets]

Therefore the food laws were not given to the nations that Israel was to be separate from.

The distinction of clean and unclean animals existed in Noah's day. Noah was a Gentile. He only brought two of each unclean animal on he ark because they were not for food. He brought seven pairs of clean animals on board because they were for food and sacrifices. All men were to eat clean at that time, but eventually men started eating all sorts of abominations after the flood. They were also committing all sorts of other abominations. YHWH chose to sanctify a people for Himself, so He brought Israel out of Egypt and gave them Torah. The Torah that Yeshua kept perfectly. He also chose a people to graft onto the natural olive tree of Israel. All who are grafted into Israel through faith in Yeshua are to live by the laws YHWH gave to Israel. Faith does not make void the law, it establishes the law (Romans 3:31).

 

[gadar perets]

Also, please back up your statement. Provide a link to every post where I have ever accused you of any sin.

I have not falsely accused you of seeking to be justified by the law. You have falsely accused me of having intentions of malice. I may have merely misunderstood what you were saying. It seems to me that you are indeed preaching law-keeping for justification. And if I am merely mistaken, then I am not taking on the nature of satan in addressing what I believe it is that you are really saying (whether you realize what you are saying is also in question in my mind at this point).

Why do I need to find past accusations when you clearly made two in post #910 ? I have had to correct you about my beliefs several times, but you don't accept my word and continue to falsely accuse me.

 

[gadar perets]

You need to clarify your position. Because from all your statements it appears to every one of us that you are teaching that our justification comes through law-keeping. Why else is there all of this emphasis on how we must obey the food laws? If you really believed that we are justified by grace and not by law-keeping, this wouldn't even be an issue for you. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, you are wrong and I will correct you AGAIN.

I teach that we are justified (made righteous) through faith in Yeshua. Justification by faith is not a license to sin. Nor does obedience to the law mean one is seeking to be justified by the law. Most Christians keep many OT laws including 9 of the 10 Commandments and the two greatest commandments, yet they do not accuse each other of seeking to be justified by the law. They only accuse those who teach that there are more than those 11 commandments to obey.

I teach we are saved by grace through faith in Yeshua.

I teach we are to go and sin no more as Yeshua taught us. That means we are to go and no longer break the law (1 John 3:4). We cannot avoid sin if we do not know what sin is or what the law says. The knowledge of sin comes by the law (Romans 3:20). Do away with the law and you do away with knowing when you have sinned. Christians have been deceived into believing the Sabbaths, Feasts and dietary laws no longer apply. Therefore, when they break those laws they sin ignorantly. I try to educate my brothers and sisters as best I can. Most don't want to be educated. That will not stop me from educating them. If anyone does not want to be educated, then drop out of these discussions.

 

[justbyfaith]

Why do I need to find past accusations when you clearly made two in post #910 ? I have had to correct you about my beliefs several times, but you don't accept my word and continue to falsely accuse me.

You are simply not clear enough in what you are trying to say. It appears to me if not to the rest of us also that I am accurate in discerning that what you really believe is in fact what you say that I am "accusing you of". That I am accurate in my estimation of what you believe, but that you have not put two and two together in your doctrine yet, so that you even realize the implications of what you say; that you are preaching law-keeping as justification whether you actually realize it or not. If you believe that we are justified by grace, why do you preach the law?

Throw in the aspect of grace if you are preaching the law as a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. Point out the Cross and how it redeems us instead of saying at every turn that the food laws are all-important and that we must keep them. It appears to us that you believe that keeping the food laws is essential for salvation. If you do not believe that, then declare it to us plainly. Bring us to the Cross in your preaching. Preach to us the grace of God, in Christ dying for our redemption.

Because if you are not preaching salvation by law-keeping, that is your next step. For we all understand that if we are under the law, the food laws must be kept for salvation. But if we are not justified by the law, then show us from scripture that that is the case; and do not any longer try to get us to obey the food laws in order to be saved. I mean, if you are saying that we must merely keep the food laws for no reason, then say that. But please clarify to us what you mean by making the food laws so important; and what the significance of this is to you.

 

[justbyfaith]

I agree. That does not give us license to sin. We must avoid sin whenever possible. We don't sin because we know we will be forgiven anyway.

Oh really I didn't know that before...

 

[justbyfaith]

The distinction of clean and unclean animals existed in Noah's day. Noah was a Gentile. He only brought two of each unclean animal on he ark because they were not for food. He brought seven pairs of clean animals on board because they were for food and sacrifices. All men were to eat clean at that time, but eventually men started eating all sorts of abominations after the flood. They were also committing all sorts of other abominations. YHWH chose to sanctify a people for Himself, so He brought Israel out of Egypt and gave them Torah. The Torah that Yeshua kept perfectly. He also chose a people to graft onto the natural olive tree of Israel. All who are grafted into Israel through faith in Yeshua are to live by the laws YHWH gave to Israel. Faith does not make void the law, it establishes the law (Romans 3:31).

Yes, and even Noah was told that every moving thing would be food for him (Genesis 9:3).

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, you are wrong and I will correct you AGAIN.

I teach that we are justified (made righteous) through faith in Yeshua. Justification by faith is not a license to sin. Nor does obedience to the law mean one is seeking to be justified by the law. Most Christians keep many OT laws including 9 of the 10 Commandments and the two greatest commandments, yet they do not accuse each other of seeking to be justified by the law. They only accuse those who teach that there are more than those 11 commandments to obey.

I teach we are saved by grace through faith in Yeshua.

I teach we are to go and sin no more as Yeshua taught us. That means we are to go and no longer break the law (1 John 3:4). We cannot avoid sin if we do not know what sin is or what the law says. The knowledge of sin comes by the law (Romans 3:20). Do away with the law and you do away with knowing when you have sinned. Christians have been deceived into believing the Sabbaths, Feasts and dietary laws no longer apply. Therefore, when they break those laws they sin ignorantly. I try to educate my brothers and sisters as best I can. Most don't want to be educated. That will not stop me from educating them. If anyone does not want to be educated, then drop out of these discussions.

There is danger in your position; in that in holding to it one might begin to miss the subtle implication that they are somehow justified by not sinning (by keeping the law). I say to you verily that if you are justified by the law in any sense you are not justified through the Cross of Christ and the grace that it brings. Therefore your position, if you are going to preach it correctly and in the love of Christ, requires an emphasis on the grace of Christ and how we are not to begin to trust in law-keeping to save us, lest we lose our justification through the Cross of Christ and the grace that it brings. This should be in your every post in order to avoid confusion: because of the ease of falling into the trap of thinking we might be justified by the law when the law is being emphasized. You must be certain to make clear that your preaching of the law is that it is a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ: that the preaching of the law is made in order to show us our sin so that we can be redeemed through the Cross of Christ and that alone.

 

[gadar perets]

Yes, and even Noah was told that every moving thing would be food for him (Genesis 9:3).

Yes, therefore we can eat people. No? Then you are saying Genesis 9:3 must be qualified by saying, "Every moving thing that lives, except people, shall be food for you". I qualify it by saying, "Every moving thing that lives and is clean shall be food for you. Had Noah eaten one of the only two pigs on the ark the species would become extinct. The clean animals were for food when they got off the ark.

 

[justbyfaith]

If you want to go on believing the KJV is without error, go right ahead.

I certainly will; because the kjv is indeed without error.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, therefore we can eat people. No? Then you are saying Genesis 9:3 must be qualified by saying, "Every moving thing that lives, except people, shall be food for you". I qualify it by saying, "Every moving thing that lives and is clean shall be food for you. Had Noah eaten one of the only two pigs on the ark the species would become extinct. The clean animals were for food when they got off the ark.

God brought the Jewish people into a time in their own history wherein they even ate their own offspring. Very recently in the history of the world, there were people stuck on a mountain who ate the people that perished in order to survive their situation; and I don't condemn them for doing so.

 

[gadar perets]

There is danger in your position; in that in holding to it one might begin to miss the subtle implication that they are somehow justified by not sinning (by keeping the law). I say to you verily that if you are justified by the law in any sense you are not justified through the Cross of Christ and the grace that it brings. Therefore your position, if you are going to preach it correctly and in the love of Christ, requires an emphasis on the grace of Christ and how we are not to begin to trust in law-keeping to save us, lest we lose our justification through the Cross of Christ and the grace that it brings. This should be in your every post in order to avoid confusion: because of the ease of falling into the trap of thinking we might be justified by the law when the law is being emphasized. You must be certain to make clear that your preaching of the law is that it is a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ: that the preaching of the law is made in order to show us our sin so that we can be redeemed through the Cross of Christ and that alone.

No, I don't need to do all that. You need to stop thinking the worst about law keepers and stop accusing us of seeking to be justified and/or saved by the law. That is just your way of deflecting the need for obedience on your part.

 

[gadar perets]

I certainly will; because the kjv is indeed without error.

This question is for all on this forum. Is there anyone else here that believes the KJV is without error?

 

[justbyfaith]

Even if there isn't, and the majority believe that there are errors therein, Exodus 23:2a justifies my position.

 

[justbyfaith]

No, I don't need to do all that. You need to stop thinking the worst about law keepers and stop accusing us of seeking to be justified and/or saved by the law. That is just your way of deflecting the need for obedience on your part.

I am a very obedient person, and I do not feel the need to deflect my responsibility to obey God.

However, I do understand that for the believer, keeping one's self from sinning is not a requirement but a privilege.

We serve and obey the Lord because we love Him for that He has redeemed us from hell. He has forgiven us completely of all of our sins and will not impute sin to us, ever (Romans 4:7-8). Because we are forgiven much, we love Him much (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19, Romans 5:5).

Our motivation for obedience, therefore, is not in that we are required to obey; and it is not even a need for the one who is redeemed. It is a desire. We are made new creatures in Christ; and therefore we want to obey the Lord in everything.

Do you see the difference?