The Problem With The Trinity

[justbyfaith]

Actually, anyone who proclaims the Son is really the Father is either so sadly deceived that he rejects the leading of the Holy Spirit as it teaches the Son IS NOT the Father or he does not have the Holy Spirit at all.

Scripture?

Also, I do not say that the Son is "really" the Father...

But I teach that, based on John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11, that the Father is the very Spirit that dwellt/dwelleth in Jesus Christ. See also Colossians 2:9.

Therefore the Son is the Father; but the Father is not the Son...

Because the Father inhabiteth eternity and also descended to become the Son. This is a plain fact of holy scripture.

The reference to "one Lord" is referring to one Lord that the Father appointed to be Lord;

Actually, that one Lord is referring to the Father:

Mat 11:25, At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Luk 10:21, In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

Remember that the scripture declares that there is only one Lord:

Eph 4:5, One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

1Co 8:6, But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

We find in this the reality both that Jesus is God (Hebrews 1:8) and that the Father is the Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).

 

[justbyfaith]

I cannot think with you because your thinking is wrong.

My thinking is actually very right; and biblical.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, they share certain titles that do not make Yeshua God like "good shephard", but to say Yeshua holds the title "Almighty God" definitely makes Yeshua God. There are NO titles or actions that make Yeshua "God" with a capital "G". He is the Son of the "only true God" (John 17:3).

John 17:3 (kjv) contains the preposition and, which is translated from the Greek word kai, and which can be translated even.

 

[justbyfaith]

@gadar perets, I do believe that you fear looking up the verses that I have referenced to substantiate my position.

 

[gadar perets]

John 17:3 (kjv) contains the preposition and, which is translated from the Greek word kai, and which can be translated even.

It should be translated "even" only in your dreams.

 

[gadar perets]

Scripture?

Also, I do not say that the Son is "really" the Father...

But I teach that, based on John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11, that the Father is the very Spirit that dwellt/dwelleth in Jesus Christ. See also Colossians 2:9.

Therefore the Son is the Father; but the Father is not the Son...

Because the Father inhabiteth eternity and also descended to become the Son. This is a plain fact of holy scripture.

Yes, the Father dwelt in the Son just like He dwells in all believers (through the indwelling Holy Spirit). That doesn't make us the Father, nor does it make the Son the Father.

So, first you say, "but the Father is not the Son", then you say, "the Father ... descended to become the Son." The fact is, you are a very confused and deceived young man.

1Co 8:6, But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

We find in this the reality both that Jesus is God (Hebrews 1:8) and that the Father is the Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).

In keeping with the Hebrew rather than the erroneous English translation, Yeshua is an "elohim", not "God".

 

[gadar perets]

@gadar perets, I do believe that you fear looking up the verses that I have referenced to substantiate my position.

I always look up your verses. Do you look up mine?

 

[justbyfaith]

It should be translated "even" only in your dreams.

Not only in my dreams...in reality...but of course, this is something that you cannot abide by for some reason...since you reject the reality of Christ's Deity...which will also be to your eternal destruction if you do not repent and believe in the truth, John 8:24.

The fact is, you are a very confused and deceived young man.

You have three fingers pointing back at you. I know that I am not deceived; and neither am I confused in the slightest. I know that what I am preaching is from the word of God.

I always look up your verses. Do you look up mine?

What verses have you referenced? Most recently, you have referenced only one (John 17:3) and I addressed it. And you rejected the truth that I revealed concerning it. There is really no reason to continue with you, except to contend for the truth in this public arena so that the truth will prevail over the lies that you have happened to believe in and are espousing.

I always look up verses that people reference and try to address them, so that nothing slips by my watchful eye.

 

[gadar perets]

Not only in my dreams...in reality...but of course, this is something that you cannot abide by for some reason...since you reject the reality of Christ's Deity...which will also be to your eternal destruction if you do not repent and believe in the truth, John 8:24.

You don't even know what John 8:24 is referring to.

What verses have you referenced? Most recently, you have referenced only one (John 17:3) and I addressed it. And you rejected the truth that I revealed concerning it. There is really no reason to continue with you, except to contend for the truth in this public arena so that the truth will prevail over the lies that you have happened to believe in and are espousing.

I always look up verses that people reference and try to address them, so that nothing slips by my watchful eye.

I have posted about 56 pages of verses throughout this thread that put all your verses to shame and reveal how you and others have twisted Scripture to support a pagan God/Man concept.

 

[justbyfaith]

You don't even know what John 8:24 is referring to.


I have posted about 56 pages of verses throughout this thread that put all your verses to shame and reveal how you and others have twisted Scripture to support a pagan God/Man concept.

This is an old thread, and I am not going to go looking back through it to find your verses. But if I recall correctly, I have contended for the true faith throughout this thread; and none of the verses you have posted have been able to convince me of your pov. I believe that you have also not posted from the kjv, which substantially denigrates the authority of the verses that you have quoted.

As for John 8:24, it refers back to Exodus 3:14 and Jesus' claim in John 8:58, and the Pharisees' response in John 8:59 and John 10:31-33. They understood that Jesus was claiming to be God and sought to stone Him for the blasphemy in their minds.

 

[gadar perets]

This is an old thread, and I am not going to go looking back through it to find your verses. But if I recall correctly, I have contended for the true faith throughout this thread; and none of the verses you have posted have been able to convince me of your pov. I believe that you have also not posted from the kjv, which substantially denigrates the authority of the verses that you have quoted.

I almost always quote from the KJV and I correct whatever part of the translation needs correcting as in "Easter" of Acts 12:4.

As for John 8:24, it refers back to Exodus 3:14 and Jesus' claim in John 8:58, and the Pharisees' response in John 8:59 and John 10:31-33. They understood that Jesus was claiming to be God and sought to stone Him for the blasphemy in their minds.

John 8:24 has nothing to do with Exodus 3:14 and everything to do with what Yeshua said previously in context. Yeshua said, "for if you believe not that I am...". "I am" what?

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins.

 

[justbyfaith]

I almost always quote from the KJV and I correct whatever part of the translation needs correcting as in "Easter" of Acts 12:4.

This is a problem for you....that you think that you are more of an expert on the Greek and Hebrew than were those who actually translated the Bible.

John 8:24 has nothing to do with Exodus 3:14 and everything to do with what Yeshua said previously in context. Yeshua said, "for if you believe not that I am...". "I am" what?

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins.

Keep telling yourself that...

To me, eternal life is staked on the true meaning of what this verse is speaking about.

So then, if you are wrong on this issue, and I am right, you will most assuredly die in your sins for your unbelief concerning the Deity of Christ.

 

[gadar perets]

This is a problem for you....that you think that you are more of an expert on the Greek and Hebrew than were those who actually translated the Bible.

I certainly know that the Greek "pascha" does NOT translate as "Easter", but "Passover". Any 10 year old child raised in Torah would know that as well. So, if you think Easter is correct, then you are the one with a SERIOUS problem.

So then, if you are wrong on this issue, and I am right, you will most assuredly die in your sins for your unbelief concerning the Deity of Christ.

And if I am right and you are wrong on this issue, you will most assuredly die in your unrepentant sin of idolatry.

 

[justbyfaith]

I certainly know that the Greek "pascha" does NOT translate as "Easter", but "Passover". Any 10 year old child raised in Torah would know that as well. So, if you think Easter is correct, then you are the one with a SERIOUS problem.


And if I am right and you are wrong on this issue, you will most assuredly die in your unrepentant sin of idolatry.

The Greek word pascha, in modern koine Greek, is indeed used to refer to Easter in today's world.

I'll take Jesus' words over yours. It is clear to me that the Pharisees and scribes understood that He was claiming to be God, when they picked up stones to stone Him (twice)...the second time they even declared that their reason for stoning Him was "because you, being a man, make yourself God." (John 10:31-33).

 

[gadar perets]

The Greek word pascha, in modern koine Greek, is indeed used to refer to Easter in today's world.

There was NO SUCH THING as EASTER in Peter's day. I could care less about "modern koine Greek". We are dealing with Koine Greek in Yeshua's day. Also, do you translate the other 28 uses of pascha in the NT as Easter?

I'll take Jesus' words over yours.

Yeshua's words are not the issue. What he meant is the issue.

It is clear to me that the Pharisees and scribes understood that He was claiming to be God, when they picked up stones to stone Him (twice)...the second time they even declared that their reason for stoning Him was "because you, being a man, make yourself God." (John 10:31-33).

The Pharisees misunderstood him to be saying he was Elohim, not "God". Yeshua wasn't speaking English to the Pharisees. Yeshua had to correct them by saying; 1) that it is not wrong to for men to be called "elohim" based on Psalms 82:6 (John 10:34) and 2) that he said he was the "Son of Elohim", not "Elohim" himself (John 10:36).

 

[justbyfaith]

There was NO SUCH THING as EASTER in Peter's day.

The resurrection was past. What makes you think the believers weren't celebrating it by then? It was widely celebrated in Christendom by the middle of the 2nd century, according to Wikipedia.

The Pharisees misunderstood him to be saying he was Elohim, not "God".

That is just plain stupid.

2) that he said he was the "Son of Elohim", not "Elohim" himself (John 10:36).

The son that was given shall be called among other things the everlasting Father, according to Isaiah 9:6.

 

[justbyfaith]

I have a feeling we're about to go in circles...

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

If one does not regard the Trinity they are at loss as to God.

 

[gadar perets]

The resurrection was past. What makes you think the believers weren't celebrating it by then? It was widely celebrated in Christendom by the middle of the 2nd century, according to Wikipedia.

Paul used the word "pascha" to refer to Yeshua as our Passover Lamb. Did he really mean our Easter Lamb? I have heard of the abominable Easter ham, but not Easter Lamb.

Easter. Greek. to pascha, the Passover. Easter is a heathen term, derived from the Saxon goddess Eastre, the same as Astarte, the Syrian Venus, called Ashtoreth in the O.T. - E.W. Bullinger

Intending after Easter to bring him forth - Μετα το πασχα, After the passover. Perhaps there never was a more unhappy, not to say absurd, translation than that in our text. - Adam Clarke

He would do this after Easter, meta to pascha - after the passover, certainly so it ought to be read, for it is the same word that is always so rendered; and to insinuate the introducing of a gospel-feast, instead of the passover, when we have nothing in the New Testament of such a thing, is to mingle Judaism with our Christianity. - Matthew Henry

intending after Easter — rather, “after the Passover”; that is, after the whole festival was over. (The word in our King James Version is an ecclesiastical term of later date, and ought not to have been employed here). - Jameison-Fausset-Brown

That is just plain stupid.

Your ignorance is showing. Are you saying Yeshua really said, "God"? Oy vey! That is an English translation of people that were speaking either Hebrew or Aramaic.

The son that was given shall be called among other things the everlasting Father, according to Isaiah 9:6.

What does this have to do with John 10:36?

 

[justbyfaith]

Are you saying Yeshua really said, "God"?

And you're saying that the unadulterated message of God's word was lost in the translation?

That only Hebrew and Greek scholars can get the unadulterated message of God's word?

This means that the educated scribes and Pharisees (Greek and Hebrew scholars) have always had an advantage over the common people.

Nevertheless, it is the common people who received Jesus gladly; and the educated scribes and Pharisees rejected Him.