The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

[Eternally Grateful]

So let’s see how this would work in a real life scenario:

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:8-9)

So now here you are! Cleansed from all unrighteousness! Hallelujah!! Praise the Lord!

But then, your flesh says, hey EG, commit this sin please. And you obey it.

So now you have trodden under foot scriptures like this:

“Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.” (Romans 6:12)

And you have mocked God and trodden under foot Christ!

“Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:29)

But EG is going to do this again:

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:8-9)

So now here you are (again)! Cleansed from all unrighteousness (again)! Hallelujah!! Praise the Lord!

If this isn’t mocking God I don’t know what is…

This scripture may as well read like this:

“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap (unless he runs back to 1 John 1:9).” (Galatians 6:7)

Then the mocking can continue…

Your problem is you do not understand what sin is.

The word sin literally means to miss the mark.

To many people think of sin as committing adutry, watching porn. Murder stealing etc.

But sin is much deeper than this.

Sin is flesh. it is looking to self and putting your needs above another. before you even get to the overt sin. You have already committed sin in your heart. because you have taken you eyes off God.

The worse sin in scripture that we see (looking how much time is is spoken of) is pride. Pride comes before a fall. Now many times we can see our pride and stop before we commit the overt sin. But sadly, as even paul admitted. there are times I do what I do not want to do. and times I do not do what I want to do.

John said if we say we have no sin (if we say we NEVER put self over our neighbor or God) we are decieved.

You want me to believe John is decieved himself.

Well good luck with that. I will continue to run that race and not be so self decieved I think I have made it, when not even paul made it in his lifetime.

Your right, If I sow sin, I will recieve my just reward. Many have died the sin unto death. But did God cast them out because they sinned? There will be people on judgment day who have all their rewards burned.. Meaning they never produced fruit worthy of reward. yet they will be saved even as through fire.. I guess they lived a life of outward loving as God loved huh?

sorry bro.. You need to stop looking at sin in a humanistic way and start looking at it from Gods perspective.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,” (Hebrews 10:26)



So this was the ONLY sin Christ died for?

Actually no. CHrist did not die for that. Thats why there is no more sacrifice.

The sin of rejecting the gospel?

All other sins remain (like adultery, fornication, theft, murder, etc,)???

See where your foolish doctrine leads you?

lol. see there you go stuck on personal overt sin again, You have the pharisee mindset. You think because you have never commited adultry your ok.. Well the pharisee thought the same.

There is only 1 unpardonable sin my friend. As james said, if we keep the whole law yet stumble ( we stumble by accident) we are guilty of all

How many times in your lifetime have you broken the law?

It only takes once..

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Sin is flesh. it is looking to self and putting your needs above another. before you even get to the overt sin.

The overt sin is what is referenced EG.

Notice “if we sin willfully”, “he that commits sin is of the Devil”… COMMITS, not THINKS.

even paul admitted. there are times I do what I do not want to do. and times I do not do what I want to do

Another common misrepresentation by those on your side.

Paul was showing the struggles of an unconverted man still in the flesh:

“…when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members…” (Romans 7:5)

But we who are saved:

“…are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit…” (Romans 8:9)

You want me to believe John is decieved himself.

No, I want you to properly interpret his writing. Those deceived in saying they have no sin are unconverted sinners! Because John himself later says:

“Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin” (1 John 3:9)

And this is seconded by Peter:

“…he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin…” (1 Peter 4:1)

Which is what carry the cross is all about, SUFFERING for Christ’s sake!

If I sow sin, I will recieve my just reward. Many have died the sin unto death.

And the next place they’ll be is in the lake of fire, for no sinner will be entering the heavenly kingdom of our God and Savior:

“And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.” (Revelation 21:27)

There will be people on judgment day who have all their rewards burned..

This is another false doctrine from:

“If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” (1 Corinthians 3:14-15)

This “work” here is the ministry of a minister. Not the works of believers.

For all the hooping and hollering that goes on around here regarding “context” ya’ll miss the context here badly.

You need to stop looking at sin in a humanistic way and start looking at it from Gods perspective.

That’s the perspective I am looking at it from.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The overt sin is what is referenced EG.

Notice “if we sin willfully”, “he that commits sin is of the Devil”… COMMITS, not THINKS.

Notice

if we (fall short or miss the mark) willfully

Get off the english text and do your research.

If I interpret hebrews like you do. I have a major contradiction with John.

That puts the whole bible in question. (this is not the only issue with your belief that does this. just so you know)

Another common misrepresentation by those on your side.

Paul was showing the struggles of an unconverted man still in the flesh:

You interpret paul like you interpret john,

Paul did not say I did what I did not want to do when I was lost. He said I do not do (present tense) what I want to do.

once again, Your interpretation is flawed.. You have paul saying something he never said.

“…when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members…” (Romans 7:5)

But we who are saved:

“…are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit…” (Romans 8:9)

Your right. But it does not mean we NEVER put self above others. We do not become super mature believers who do not need to grow immediately. If we did this, there would be no need for sanctification. we would all be perfect the moment we were saved.. We could eat meat immediately. But this is not the case.

No, I want you to properly interpret his writing. Those deceived in saying they have no sin are unconverted sinners! Because John himself later says:

“Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin” (1 John 3:9)

Whoever is born of god does not live in sin. Please. once again, stop reading hthe english and go look at the greek.

And this is seconded by Peter:

“…he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin…” (1 Peter 4:1)

Which is what carry the cross is all about, SUFFERING for Christ’s sake!

Ahh. so its all about YOU.. See here you go with self righteousness again.

And the next place they’ll be is in the lake of fire, for no sinner will be entering the heavenly kingdom of our God and Savior:

“And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.” (Revelation 21:27)

Your right no sinner will enter heaven.

Thats why we need grace. Because if we stood in front of God based on our righteousness. No one would make it to heaven

I pray you see this.. and humble yourself.

This is another false doctrine from:

“If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” (1 Corinthians 3:14-15)

This “work” here is the ministry of a minister. Not the works of believers.

For all the hooping and hollering that goes on around here regarding “context” ya’ll miss the context here badly.

Wow..

You will twist anything to make the bible go your way wont you

Paul says I do not do. You think he said I did not do. John says if we say we have no. You think he said if they have no

And no when paul mentions the bema seat judgment where every believer will have his work tried by fire. You think it is just certain people

That’s the perspective I am looking at it from.

Your looking it from a perspective of pride. Your not seeing yourself for who you really are. and judging people who see themselves as they really are Your no better than the legalist who sees a person who believes eternal life is eternal based on the work of God.. and his promise. as people who love sin.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

If I interpret hebrews like you do. I have a major contradiction with John.

That puts the whole bible in question.

Really?

Let’s see:

“…if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin [denying the need of the blood of Christ], we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins [acknowledging the need of the blood of Christ], he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:7-9)

So then we (born again):

“…cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1 John 3:9)

Why can’t he sin? Because he’s suffering in the flesh denying its desires:

“for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.” (1 Peter 4:1-2)

But if he chooses to sin willfully:

“…there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

So:

“Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.” (Romans 6:12)

Who’s your ruler EG?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Really?

Let’s see:

“…if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin [denying the need of the blood of Christ], we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins [acknowledging the need of the blood of Christ], he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:7-9)

So then we (born again):

“…cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1 John 3:9)

Why can’t he sin? Because he’s suffering in the flesh denying its desires:

“for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.” (1 Peter 4:1-2)

But if he chooses to sin willfully:

“…there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

So:

“Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.” (Romans 6:12)

Who’s your ruler EG?

as usual. another conversation which went no where

God is my ruler my friend, It does not mean that from time to time, I say I am going to serve myself today because I am tired. or overworked. or something has happened. and I fail to love as I am supposed to. instead I serve self.

You claim you would never do this. I claim you are deceived if you think this to be true (as John confirmed is true)

Good luck my friend.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

as usual. another conversation which went no where

God is my ruler my friend, It does not mean that from time to time, I say I am going to serve myself today because I am tired. or overworked. or something has happened. and I fail to love as I am supposed to. instead I serve self.

You claim you would never do this. I claim you are deceived if you think this to be true (as John confirmed is true)

Good luck my friend.

Why is it that you can’t support your doctrine verse by verse like I do?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why is it that you can’t support your doctrine verse by verse like I do?

You have not supported your doctrine my friend

You have twisted the words of John, the author of Hebrews and the words of Paul

And you refuse to admit you do not serve yourself from time to time.

There is only one perfect person. and that I Christ. You will be perfect one day. we all will. After we have been resurrected.

Until then, we all must continue to run the race. fight the good fight. and acknowledge we have not yet arrived..

God does not resist the humble he lifts them up. I praise God for that every day. Because I know every day I wake up, and I am not in hell (a place I deserve) is a good day. another day to fight and learn to love as God loved me.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Amen!

But…

There is only one perfect person. and that I Christ. You will be perfect one day. we all will. After we have been resurrected.

“He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.” (1 John 2:6)

Because:

“…He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.” (John 14:12)

So:

“…Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.” (2 Corinthians 13:11)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen!

But…



“He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.” (1 John 2:6)

Because:

“…He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.” (John 14:12)

So:

“…Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.” (2 Corinthians 13:11)

Your still not perfect.

If you think you are. your decieved.

 

[BarneyFife]

many "professing" Christians

look down on others.

.
.
Ironic
.
.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You have totally misrepresented the word

Romans 9 - 11 is Paul answering the question, Has God made a mistake choosing Israel

No persomn has ever been saved by the law. It requires perfection. No one But Christ attained that feet.

Nowhere did I say that we are saved by Law (Law Alone Salvationism). But the Bible teaches two aspects of salvation.

#1. God's Grace Through Faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior
(Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).
(The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer).
Being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus as ones Savior is the entrance gate to salvation, and it is the foundation of our salvation (by faith) upon which we stand. Being saved by God's grace is believing the gospel (Which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it - Romans 1:16). According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: The gospel is you believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, He was buried, and He had risen again three days later for your salvation (Note: Do not let anyone sell you on another gospel besides this one). Depending on a person’s access or exposure to the Word: Being saved by God's grace will also generally include receiving Jesus as your Savior (John 1:12), and calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. confessing with your mouth the words: “Lord Jesus” or similar equivalent - Romans 10:9) as a part of seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14). This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace and His redemptive work. As a result: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). A person is foundationally or ultimately saved by God’s grace because if they happen to sin on rare occasion in their Christian walk, they do not do a good work to absolve that sin, but they confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (Hebrews 4:16) (For verses on being saved by God's grace, see: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-6, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 5:1-2).

#2. Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life & A Belief of the Truth.
(The Next Step or Phase in the Salvation Process).
(The 2nd synergistic work of God done in a believer).
This is based on 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 (Which is call of the gospel; Note: 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 is not the gospel. It is simply the call of the gospel; For the gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

13 “…God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation
through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel,..”​

Anyways, this secondary aspect of salvation is in two parts. It is a two part intertwined secondary aspect of salvation (Which joins the cord of Initial Salvation or Foundational Salvation in being saved by God’s grace; See note below at the end of this post). Anyways, this secondary aspect of salvation is in two parts. One does not exist without the other (Note: The following is mentioned in order according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 and it is not stating that one cannot proceed the other or vise versa).

(a). Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer. A believer today who obeys the Lord looks to the commands of Jesus and His followers within the New Testament primarily. For believers today are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole package deal (even though certain laws have carried over into the New Testament). Basically all ceremonial laws and judicial laws in the Old Testament no longer apply. For example: Believers do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, animal sacrifices, holy days, etc.; However, believers must keep God's Moral Laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, do commit adultery, etc.; Two of the greatest commands that we should focus on daily is to love God and love our neighbor which is more fully described in Mark 12:29-31. We need to worship or adore the Lord our God, preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, and live holy lives, etc. (For Sanctification verses, see: James 2:24, James 2:17-18, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 8:1 (KJV), 1 Corinthians 16:22, Romans 8:13, etc.).

(b) A Belief of the Truth is also another secondary synergistic intertwined aspect of salvation for the believer (in addition to Sanctification of the Holy Spirit). We need to study to show ourselves approved unto God according to 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJB). We need to hold to certain correct doctrines or teachings in God’s Word. One example: It is implied that denying bodily resurrection means one’s faith is overthrown (See: 2 Timothy 2:17-18). So we need to study God’s Word (the Holy Bible) and hold to it’s truths. Now, does that mean one is not saved if they don’t know of the bodily resurrection? I don’t believe so. I believe that is what God’s grace is for. But once a key core doctrine of God’s Word is revealed to a believer, they cannot reject it. So a belief of the truth is similar to Sanctification. A Christian must grow in the knowledge of God’s Word and accept it’s beautiful fundamental truths. Does holding to all truths in the Bible save? Well, I don’t think a belief in the Nephilim saves (although it is a truth taught in His Word). But I believe there are other foundational truths we must eventually learn and accept as Christians. The Spirit will guide a believer into all truth within God’s Word.​

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You have totally misrepresented the word

Romans 9 - 11 is Paul answering the question, Has God made a mistake choosing Israel

No persomn has ever been saved by the law. It requires perfection. No one But Christ attained that feet.

It’s grace by faith and obedience to God that saves. To say so otherwise is a distortion of tons of other verses in the Bible. To say so otherwise means either God turns you into a puppet to do his will sometimes or you can live in a devil religion in practice with the label of Christian slapped on to it. However, 1 John 3:8 says he that commits sin is of the devil.

I mean stop and analyze things from an outside perspective here. Protestantism is the 2nd largest branch of Christianity (800 million to 1 billion adherents). But Jesus says narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that find it (Matthew 7:14). So this should tell you that the sin and still be saved belief by the big Christian gorilla on the block is false.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nowhere did I say that we are saved by Law (Law Alone Salvationism). But the Bible teaches two aspects of salvation.

#1. God's Grace Through Faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior
(Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).
(The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer).
Being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus as ones Savior is the entrance gate to salvation, and it is the foundation of our salvation (by faith) upon which we stand. Being saved by God's grace is believing the gospel (Which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it - Romans 1:16). According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: The gospel is you believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, He was buried, and He had risen again three days later for your salvation (Note: Do not let anyone sell you on another gospel besides this one). Depending on a person’s access or exposure to the Word: Being saved by God's grace will also generally include receiving Jesus as your Savior (John 1:12), and calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. confessing with your mouth the words: “Lord Jesus” or similar equivalent - Romans 10:9) as a part of seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14). This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace and His redemptive work. As a result: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). A person is foundationally or ultimately saved by God’s grace because if they happen to sin on rare occasion in their Christian walk, they do not do a good work to absolve that sin, but they confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (Hebrews 4:16) (For verses on being saved by God's grace, see: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-6, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 5:1-2).

#2. Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life & A Belief of the Truth.
(The Next Step or Phase in the Salvation Process).
(The 2nd synergistic work of God done in a believer).
This is based on 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 (Which is call of the gospel; Note: 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 is not the gospel. It is simply the call of the gospel; For the gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

13 “…God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation
through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel,..”​

Anyways, this secondary aspect of salvation is in two parts. It is a two part intertwined secondary aspect of salvation (Which joins the cord of Initial Salvation or Foundational Salvation in being saved by God’s grace; See note below at the end of this post). Anyways, this secondary aspect of salvation is in two parts. One does not exist without the other (Note: The following is mentioned in order according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 and it is not stating that one cannot proceed the other or vise versa).

(a). Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer. A believer today who obeys the Lord looks to the commands of Jesus and His followers within the New Testament primarily. For believers today are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole package deal (even though certain laws have carried over into the New Testament). Basically all ceremonial laws and judicial laws in the Old Testament no longer apply. For example: Believers do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, animal sacrifices, holy days, etc.; However, believers must keep God's Moral Laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, do commit adultery, etc.; Two of the greatest commands that we should focus on daily is to love God and love our neighbor which is more fully described in Mark 12:29-31. We need to worship or adore the Lord our God, preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, and live holy lives, etc. (For Sanctification verses, see: James 2:24, James 2:17-18, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 8:1 (KJV), 1 Corinthians 16:22, Romans 8:13, etc.).

(b) A Belief of the Truth is also another secondary synergistic intertwined aspect of salvation for the believer (in addition to Sanctification of the Holy Spirit). We need to study to show ourselves approved unto God according to 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJB). We need to hold to certain correct doctrines or teachings in God’s Word. One example: It is implied that denying bodily resurrection means one’s faith is overthrown (See: 2 Timothy 2:17-18). So we need to study God’s Word (the Holy Bible) and hold to it’s truths. Now, does that mean one is not saved if they don’t know of the bodily resurrection? I don’t believe so. I believe that is what God’s grace is for. But once a key core doctrine of God’s Word is revealed to a believer, they cannot reject it. So a belief of the truth is similar to Sanctification. A Christian must grow in the knowledge of God’s Word and accept it’s beautiful fundamental truths. Does holding to all truths in the Bible save? Well, I don’t think a belief in the Nephilim saves (although it is a truth taught in His Word). But I believe there are other foundational truths we must eventually learn and accept as Christians. The Spirit will guide a believer into all truth within God’s Word.​

Whatever, you did say that..

As or your 2 points. One cancels out the other. You can’t have it both ways.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It’s grace by faith and obedience to God that saves. To say so otherwise is a distortion of tons of other verses in the Bible. To say so otherwise means either God turns you into a puppet to do his will sometimes or you can live in a devil religion in practice with the label of Christian slapped on to it. However, 1 John 3:8 says he that commits sin is of the devil.

I mean stop and analyze things from an outside perspective here. Protestantism is the 2nd largest denomination (800 million to 1 billion adherents). But Jesus says narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that find it (Matthew 7:14). So this should tell you that the sin and still be saved belief by the big Christian gorilla on the block is false.

I it is grace it is no longer o works. Otherwise grace s no longer grace.

There is no such things as grace plus works..

One day I pray you realise this and repent

 

[mailmandan]

Nowhere does the Bible say to trust in the finished work of redemption. That is a Protestant saying. Protestants number in the high millions and thus they are not of the narrow path or way. They are the second largest denomination in the world. Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that find it (Matthew 7:14).

Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. That is Scripture and faith involves trust. Condemning protestants in general is a judgment call that is well above your pay grade.

Narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW there be that find it because there are FEW who are trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16) That is the narrow way. Faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..). Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation or else we are 100% lost. Jesus is the only way. (John 10:9; 14:6; Acts 4:12)

 

[mailmandan]

Here are the parts you ignore, corrupt, or are willingly ignorant of:

More 'surface' interpretation of pet verses taken out of context.

“If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away…” (Colossians 1:23)

Now read in Colossians 1:23 - ..if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard.. demonstrates that faith was firmly rooted and established. That is, continuance would show that the person's faith is firmly established in the hope of the gospel and they really HAVE BEEN reconciled. The form of this phrase in Greek (using the Gk. particle ei and the indicative mood of the verb epimenō) indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith; no doubt is expressed, yet what about "nominal" Christians whose shallow, temporary belief withers away?

It's only natural that Paul would speak this way because he is addressing groups of people who "profess" to be Christians, without being able to infallibly know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance of salvation when in fact they may not be saved? Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that they are genuine believers. But those who do not continue show that their shallow, temporary belief was not grounded in the gospel to begin with.

Just like in 1 Corinthians 15:1,2 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If, as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vainand worthless (vs. 14). The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrated that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe).

“…if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:22)

The Jews were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved. Because of their unbelief and hard hearts God removed His gracious hand from them as a people overall and broke them off from His goodness (but only for a time after which they will be restored - Romans 11:24-26). We Gentiles have now been grafted into God's goodness and are the recipients of His blessings. Paul's warning is that we should not become arrogant because we might lose the goodness and blessings of God just like the Jews lost the goodness and blessings of God.

Professing Christians who are Gentiles are corporately in outward covenant with Christ so, it would appear that Romans 11 is speaking about the question of collective ecclesiology and not individual soteriology. I see the warning to this collective body, which is corporately joined to Christ and is in a covenant relationship, but how could this mean that every individual in it is in saving union with Christ? Hence the "cut off." Union with Christ applies to the elect, and only for the elect are, "the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable." (verse 29) But since non-elect covenant members are mixed in, Christ clearly appears to have non-elect branches, like Judas Iscariot (John 15:1-8) and while they may be joined outwardly in covenant with Christ, since they have professed faith in Jesus, the faith of some of them is spurious because they were never truly saved to begin with, even though they were among genuine believers. (1 John 2:19)

“…give diligence to make your calling and election sure…” (2 Peter 1:10)

By cultivating the qualities listed in 2 Peter 1:5-7, Christians can be sure that God has called them and elected them. These fruits will confirm it. Make sure you have been called and elected - bébaios (an adjective, derived from bainō, "to walk where it is solid") – properly, solid (sure) enough to walk on; hence, firm, unshakable; (figuratively) absolutely dependable, giving guaranteed support (security, surety). To practice these qualities gives evidence of salvation, though they are not the basis (or cause) of salvation. They are the effect. Cause of being in Christ (FAITH) effect of being in Christ (FRUIT).

For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ (vs. 8). For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. (vs. 9) What is the object of the forgetting? Is this forgetting temporary because this believer had fallen into error or does this lack of fruit exist because this person’s "cleansing" was merely an external reformation that did not come from a truly changed heart?

The genuineness of their profession will be demonstrated as they express these virtues. These fruits confirm their divine source. 10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. Proverbs 24:16, we read - For a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.

CONTINUED...

 

[mailmandan]

“…they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.” (Hebrews 6:6)

In Hebrews 6:7-8, we read - For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. In this metaphor relating to agriculture, those who receive final judgment are compared to land that bears no vegetation or useful fruit, but rather bears thorns and thistles. We see in scripture where good fruit is a sign of true spiritual life and a lack of good fruit is a sign of pseudo Christians (Matthew 3:8-10; 7:15-20; 12:33-35) so we have an indication that the trustworthy evidence of one's spiritual condition is the fruit they bear (whether good or bad), suggesting that the writer of Hebrews is talking about people who are not genuine believers.

*Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (refers to them as BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away permanently do not accompany salvation and are not fruits worthy of authentic repentance.

It's generally stated by those who believe that salvation can be lost that it can be regained again, yet that would not be the case here if the writer of Hebrews was teaching a loss of salvation. I have heard certain individuals state they know someone who was truly saved, but later lost their salvation, yet only God truly knows the heart of individuals. Certain people "on the surface" may do a good job of looking like the real deal for a while (like Judas Iscariot, who was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus - John 6:64-71; 13:10-11) yet to the other 11 disciples, he looked like the real deal, but Jesus knew his heart.

“…these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.” (Luke 8:13)

Unlike saving belief, temporary, shallow belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving belief? It doesn't. Also the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons believe"mental assent" that "there is one God," but they are not saved.

John has portrayed people who "believe" (at least to some extent) but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly rooted and established belief resulting in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.

Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. We can see at best, these Jews believed in Him (based on their own misconceptions and expectations) of Jesus, yet upon gaining further knowledge about Jesus through His words, we see they did not truly "believe unto salvation" and become children of God (John 1:12; 3:18) but were instead children of the devil.

“…God shall wound the… hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.” (Psalms 68:21)

The KJV reads - But God shall wound the head of his enemies.. These are God's enemies and not His saints.

“Take heed …unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt …save thyself.” (1 Timothy 4:16)

Oh how works-salvationists love the idea of 'saving themselves' and boasting in their efforts. In regards to 1 Timothy 4:16, we are not passive in persevering in our faith, but it's not in our own power that we persevere. God alone saves, but "in a sense" we save ourselves and others through perseverance in sound doctrine, as we continue to believe the gospel and are used as God's instruments to bring about the salvation of others through preaching the gospel to them as well. *If you fell into a well with no way out and someone threw down and rope and pulled you out, "in a sense" you can say that you "saved yourself" by choosing to grab and hold onto the rope until that person pulled you out, but ultimately, the person who pulled you out of the well saved you and ultimately, it is Jesus Christ who ultimately saves us.

“…If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;” (John 8:31)

“If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine.. Continuing in His word is the demonstrative evidence that we truly are His disciples. Unlike these Jews who claimed to believe in Him, yet Jesus exposed them. (John 8:32-59)

Misrepresentation as a result of your false conclusion in regards to those who expose the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved.

I've noticed that ALL false religions and cults that teach salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS, which has always been a red flag for me. You are not fooling me for one second with your misinterpretation of Scripture or with your rhetoric.

 

[mailmandan]

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Ironic
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Ironic you say? Don't confuse me with the Pharisee who trusted in his own (self) righteousness (which I don't) and looked down on the tax collector and treated him with contempt by comparison. In the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector, I can assure you that I am not the self righteous Pharisee looking down on others in comparison with me, as if I am confident in my own personal (self) righteousness, but the tax collector who would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' (Luke 18:9-14)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@mailmandan , wow!

You used 1,702 words to explain just 113 words of scripture that I quoted (yes, I counted my verse quotations and used a word counter for his speech).

Folks, use your heads.

If it takes 1,702 words to explain just 113 words of scripture, something is seriously wrong with this picture.

@mailmandan is drowning you in fair words and good speeches.

“Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.” (Romans 16:17-18)

Don’t be simple minded.

“…let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings…” (Romans 3:4)