The proof of OSAS

[Rollo Tamasi]

So, who deserves heaven.
Nobody.

I do.
I have an in with the boss.

 

[amadeus]

oh, Paul is def writing in code, so as to be seen and not seen.
Ppl actually interpreting that "Paul said 'absent from the body is present with the Lord'" is proof of that imo.

Aye, even as Jesus was speaking in parables.

 

[GodsGrace]

I do.
I have an in with the boss.

I think you just took the name of God in vain.
He's not the boss.
He's God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

He always has a point.
bb that is.
You just don't understand it.
Because it's difficult to hear when you're too busy preaching.
Bono.

No - he rarely has a point.

He is what is referred to as a "compulsive poster".
This type of person posts on just about every subject - whether they make sense or not.

You don't understand it because it's difficult to see when you have your eyes closed . . .

 

[GodsGrace]

I understand bb because I listen to him.
And anyone can post on any thread...even all of them.

 

[Marymog]

In my OP I said "the indwelling of the Holy Spirit".
That's your answer.
Now if you don't understand that then nothing else is going to make sense to you.

Hi Rollo,

I think I understand what you are saying.

A person that is indwelt with the Holy Spirit (God takes up permanent residence in the body of a believer) will never loose their salvation. I agree with that statement, if that is how you mean it, with the key word being PERMANENT.

I wonder how many people God has taken up PERMANENT residence inside of?

Now it's just a matter of figuring out who is indwelt with the Holy Spirit and who THINKS they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Many, like the aforementioned men, THINK they are but few really are.

IHS....Mary

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi Rollo,

I think I understand what you are saying.

A person that is indwelt with the Holy Spirit (God takes up permanent residence in the body of a believer) will never loose their salvation. I agree with that statement, if that is how you mean it, with the key word being PERMANENT.

I wonder how many people God has taken up PERMANENT residence inside of?

Now it's just a matter of figuring out who is indwelt with the Holy Spirit and who THINKS they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Many, like the aforementioned men, THINK they are but few really are.

IHS....Mary

Gee.
Well, how could I know for sure?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Gee.
Well, how could I know for sure?

A Love Story

 

[GodsGrace]

A Love Story

Very nice.
Good ending.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I understand bb because I listen to him.
And anyone can post on any thread...even all of them.

Absolultely.
Anybody CAN post - but many don't have anything to say . . .

 

[GodsGrace]

Absolultely.
Anybody CAN post - but many don't have anything to say . . .

And wouldn't you know...

 

[Wormwood]

You said: "Jesus called people to discipleship, not conversion."
From Matthew18.
1.At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

2. Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, 3. and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 4. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5. Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me."

10. “Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven. 11. For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.

Conversion and salvation.

From Matthew 28:
18. And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20. teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

Making disciples, teaching the nations to follow God's commands.
I think that only someone who is converted can follow God's commands.
So, it looks like Jesus called people to conversion and discipleship.

The Greek word there in Matthew 18 is straphete. It simply means to "turn." Similar to the word for repentance. Jesus is not speaking of "conversion" in the sense that we would think of it. He is talking about turning from their current way of life to that of a child.

 

[Wormwood]

I agree with all you've said except I became a little confused at this:
Jesus called people to discipleship, not conversion.

Don't you believe one has to be converted FIRST, and then be a disciple of Jesus?

GodsGrace,

Thank you for the question. I think the issue has more to do with our understanding of what "conversion" means. Yes, a person must repent and follow Christ to become a disciple. There is a specific moment when that happens in a person's life. Perhaps we could call this "conversion." My issue is that Jesus called people to follow him, not to accept a concept about him and then receive some status as "saved" or "converted." Just look at the rich young ruler. Jesus didn't call him to believe certain facts about him to have eternal life. He called him to follow him (which just so happened to mean that the man would have to give up his wealth). It seems Christians today want to call people to accept some facts and pray a prayer, but Jesus called people to embrace him as their Lord and follow him daily. That is my issue. We have turned salvation into a Gnostic concept that has more to do with a momentary acceptance of facts than a daily walk of faith. The ressurection/salvation is not a moment, or a ticket. The resurrection is a person. Jesus said, "I am the resurrection and the life." If you don't have Jesus, you don't have resurrection. Jesus is more than a fact to be accepted, he is a person to be followed. I hope that makes more sense.

 

[Ally.s.j]

ooppps the new re;ationship over already lol

 

[GodsGrace]

GodsGrace,

Thank you for the question. I think the issue has more to do with our understanding of what "conversion" means. Yes, a person must repent and follow Christ to become a disciple. There is a specific moment when that happens in a person's life. Perhaps we could call this "conversion." My issue is that Jesus called people to follow him, not to accept a concept about him and then receive some status as "saved" or "converted." Just look at the rich young ruler. Jesus didn't call him to believe certain facts about him to have eternal life. He called him to follow him (which just so happened to mean that the man would have to give up his wealth). It seems Christians today want to call people to accept some facts and pray a prayer, but Jesus called people to embrace him as their Lord and follow him daily. That is my issue. We have turned salvation into a Gnostic concept that has more to do with a momentary acceptance of facts than a daily walk of faith. The ressurection/salvation is not a moment, or a ticket. The resurrection is a person. Jesus said, "I am the resurrection and the life." If you don't have Jesus, you don't have resurrection. Jesus is more than a fact to be accepted, he is a person to be followed. I hope that makes more sense.

It makes more than sense!
What you've stated above is what Christianity has been from the very beginning.

NOT this mumbo jumbo stuff we hear today.
As you said, take one walk down the isle and you've made it.

Our salvation is a walk. I'm getting a dry throat talking about the difference between justification and sanctification.

You've explained it perfeclty.
I use the word works and get people upset.
Whatever one wants to call it, Jesus is our Savior AND our Lord.
Everyone likes the Savior part, but few like the Lord part.

I'm always encouraged with posts such as yours!

 

[aspen]

GodsGrace,

Thank you for the question. I think the issue has more to do with our understanding of what "conversion" means. Yes, a person must repent and follow Christ to become a disciple. There is a specific moment when that happens in a person's life. Perhaps we could call this "conversion." My issue is that Jesus called people to follow him, not to accept a concept about him and then receive some status as "saved" or "converted." Just look at the rich young ruler. Jesus didn't call him to believe certain facts about him to have eternal life. He called him to follow him (which just so happened to mean that the man would have to give up his wealth). It seems Christians today want to call people to accept some facts and pray a prayer, but Jesus called people to embrace him as their Lord and follow him daily. That is my issue. We have turned salvation into a Gnostic concept that has more to do with a momentary acceptance of facts than a daily walk of faith. The ressurection/salvation is not a moment, or a ticket. The resurrection is a person. Jesus said, "I am the resurrection and the life." If you don't have Jesus, you don't have resurrection. Jesus is more than a fact to be accepted, he is a person to be followed. I hope that makes more sense.

Agreed.

Furthermore, it seems as if checking a person’s spiritual condition by asking pointed, basic questions about their relationship with Jesus - ‘just to make sure’ has become an obsession among many Christians. As if renewing your vows to Jesus has taken the place of spiritual growth......seems to me the wedding ceremony is only the first day of our relationship with God - it shouldnt be like the movie groundhog’s day, but to many it is.

 

[GodsGrace]

Agreed.

Furthermore, it seems as if checking a person’s spiritual condition by asking pointed, basic questions about their relationship with Jesus - ‘just to make sure’ has become an obsession among many Christians. As if renewing your vows to Jesus has taken the place of spiritual growth......seems to me the wedding ceremony is only the first day of our relationship with God - it shouldnt be like the movie groundhog’s day, but to many it is.

Funny post.
About Groundhog Day, I mean.
LOL
Agreed.

 

[bbyrd009]

ooppps the new re;ationship over already lol

just read a pretty good piece relating the "belief" relationship to the serpent attempting to devour the child being born; pretty good i thought. Not sure why you have this reaction to that post? Could you expand? ty

 

[BreadOfLife]

And wouldn't you know...

Yes, like most of your empty one-line responses.
These offer nothing to the conversation.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, like most of your empty one-line responses.
These offer nothing to the conversation.

Oh. I stopped conversing with you some time ago...