The Proof of Salvation

[CoreIssue]

I think when people think of the idea of "God dying on the cross", I think that relates to a misunderstanding of what death is.

The Bible most assuredly does defined death as separation for humans.

For animals is the cessation awareness, breath and existence of their soul, since they do not have a spirit.

Getting back to humans separation is the key word.

As for God dying on the cross, the answer is still no. Just as with us our living spirits are separated from our flesh but do not die. Only the flesh dies.

The Bible speaks about dead spirits in the context of separation from God and for the Saints spirits of the dead, meaning their bodies.

At the resurrection spirits are not resurrected, flesh bodies.

 

[Nancy]

But he will judge those who have a different God, Christ and salvation.

Yes, I agree. As there is only one Way, one Truth and one Life. If we claim Christianity, there IS no other way to God Almighty but through Jesus Christ.

 

[bbyrd009]

Of course they didn't. Your point?

they may not have said "Lord" in the way you understand that at all, and that may have just been the best their little serf brains could come up with at the time. "Lord" is a thing that happens to certain privileged knights in England, was my point there

 

[bbyrd009]

The Bible most assuredly does

dunning kruger effect - Bing

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Beside possessing the spirit of God within me and knowing it, here's a little more Bible Study supporting my proof/assurance of salvation that there is only one God and only one born believer, the Son of God who had one, a human sinless nature at least whilst on the earth.

Besides Romans 15:6, John 10:29, 14:28, there is also John 3:16 and 1 Tim 2:5 (and many more words of God) that say there is only one God and it is the Father of Jesus his Son who created him to become the sacrifice for sin and thus the high priest, the actual mercy seat for all true believers so we can partake or share in God’s spirit of Truth. Partially today, and completely in our new realm of immortality. As 1 Tim 2:4 states, it is for us to have/ gain knowledge from the Truth of the one God and our Father - not just merely about Jesus the Christ his Son. Jesus was the human sacrifice and the gateway to our salvation. Jesus is the first born of this new creation that God devised, of past, present and future believers (Romans 8:29, Col 1:15, 18; Heb 1:6; Rev 1:5). Jesus is worthy of worship because he is born of God and the Son that sacrificed his life for all, and the first born of the dead to immortality, as even the angels understand this quite clearly and bow to him, upon his birth, on is cross, at his resurrection and ascension, then and today. This thus glorifies God our Father (Romans 15:6 all over again), the ultimate goal, whilst keeping things in perspective and not making an idol of Jesus Christ as God himself, even though he is our Lord and Leader (of the new creation) and Savior (from death) who has earned the right to become the power of God, his Father for all in heaven and on earth. All believers shall know this completely in the next life. They shall know the Truth of God as Jesus possesses it and knew it from at least his baptism.

Blessings to all,

APAK

Well Jesus is not God the Father we all know that he did not create.
Can one communicate past Jesus now ?
I thought everything has to be done in Jesus Name to be worthy of God and if it's outside of that such will be burnt up because it's not worthy.

Jesus is the God of the Living not the dead he said, so that means it's all about us humans living in the Holy Spirit and that he is our Lord and Saviour, so nothing can go past that or around such at all ever and it never ever did from when humans were formed.
The Prophets were sent from God and God sent his only begotten Son to deal with the situation.

In Genesis 1:1-2 we see that the Spirit of God moved upon the waters and Jesus did the same as he is the Holy Spirit as well. that's what walking on the Water represents.

No one messes with the Holy Spirit as no one can ever defeat it.
No one can truly mess with Jesus Christ because all such will be defeated, not even the Devil him self could do that.
No one can mess with God the Father because he created all.

One can play games with all three but such loose ! because their works will be burnt up, they have nothing truly, they are bankrupt of all three and worthy of only Hell.

So all must come to Jesus Christ or you may as well not of been born, as all who are not worthy of him are only worthy of Hellfire as there works only led to such, as they are a curse or a pox on all.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

dunning kruger effect - Bing

Ouch...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I still vehemently disagree that God is 3 spirits.

 

[farouk]

I still vehemently disagree that God is 3 spirits.

Three Persons in One God; One God in Three Persons.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Three Persons in One God; One God in Three Persons.

I'm starting to see that the...creeds? have their limitations. I rather think there is one God who manifests Himself to us in different ways...

 

[farouk]

I'm starting to see that the...creeds? have their limitations. I rather think there is one God who manifests Himself to us in different ways...

If one follows through the many statements in John's Gospel and John's First Epistle, then the doctrine of God in Three Persons emerges very clearly.

 

[CoreIssue]

I'm starting to see that the...creeds? have their limitations. I rather think there is one God who manifests Himself to us in different ways...

That is Modalism.

Elohim means three or more.

God appeared to Abraham as three men.

God said to us, not me, make................

The Holy Spirit descended on Christ as a dove while the father spoke from heaven.

Trinity is clearly taught the Bible.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes but the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God. I rather see one God and three ways to show Himself and give Himself to us. If that's some dreaded thing called modalism then so be it.

 

[APAK]

Well Jesus is not God the Father we all know that he did not create.
Can one communicate past Jesus now ?
I thought everything has to be done in Jesus Name to be worthy of God and if it's outside of that such will be burnt up because it's not worthy.

Jesus is the God of the Living not the dead he said, so that means it's all about us humans living in the Holy Spirit and that he is our Lord and Saviour, so nothing can go past that or around such at all ever and it never ever did from when humans were formed.
The Prophets were sent from God and God sent his only begotten Son to deal with the situation.

In Genesis 1:1-2 we see that the Spirit of God moved upon the waters and Jesus did the same as he is the Holy Spirit as well. that's what walking on the Water represents.

No one messes with the Holy Spirit as no one can ever defeat it.
No one can truly mess with Jesus Christ because all such will be defeated, not even the Devil him self could do that.
No one can mess with God the Father because he created all.

One can play games with all three but such loose ! because their works will be burnt up, they have nothing truly, they are bankrupt of all three and worthy of only Hell.

So all must come to Jesus Christ or you may as well not of been born, as all who are not worthy of him are only worthy of Hellfire as there works only led to such, as they are a curse or a pox on all.

Reggie,
Thanks for your post…Let me try to respond to it..

You said, “ Well Jesus is not God the Father we all know that he did not create.”

Yes on both counts….Jesus is not God who is the Father of Jesus Christ and Jesus never created the earth and the matter/ universe…God who is our Father did all this.

You said, “ Can one communicate past Jesus now ?”

I think you mean if one can speak to God without going through Christ’s spirit given to us. Yes! Have to go through Jesus

You said, “ I thought everything has to be done in Jesus Name to be worthy of God and if it's outside of that such will be burnt up because it's not worthy.”

Again, yes indeed

You said, “Jesus is the God of the Living not the dead he said, so that means it's all about us humans living in the Holy Spirit and that he is our Lord and Saviour, so nothing can go past that or around such at all ever and it never ever did from when humans were formed.”

Jesus is not God. God is one and only true living eternal being, alone and unique, and the Father of Jesus per scripture.

You said, “The Prophets were sent from God and God sent his only begotten Son to deal with the situation.”


Yes


You said, ” In Genesis 1:1-2 we see that the Spirit of God moved upon the waters and Jesus did the same as he is the Holy Spirit as well. that's what walking on the Water represents.”

I believe Jesus was propelled on the surface of the water by his Father; with his spirit embracing Jesus' own spirit. Jesus did not have this power in himself, independently. Jesus said he could not do anything without his Father as per scripture.


You said, “ No one can mess with God the Father because he created all.”

Yes, God, the Father of Jesus created all, not Jesus.


You said,” So all must come to Jesus Christ or you may as well not of been born, as all who are not worthy of him are only worthy of Hellfire as there works only led to such, as they are a curse or a pox on all.”

Jesus our Lord is our high priest and advocate to his Father and ours. So in this sense at least all believers come, and are in Christ.


Bless you,


APAK

 

[Heart2Soul]

Even Satan can appear as an angel of light. The bible tells us the foulest of people give good things to the children and love them. Most murderous people in history loved someone.

The bible says judge by works, not professing love.

Appearing as an angel of light but we are able to discern his spirit or at least we should be able to.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

If one follows through the many statements in John's Gospel and John's First Epistle, then the doctrine of God in Three Persons emerges very clearly.

I agree somewhat. But when you try to make a creed, there are some limitations. God speaks, and has spoken, to us, in many ways. He manifests to us, and in us, in the ways He has chosen.

But God is not 3 separate spirits. God IS Spirit - the Holy Spirit. God is not one Spirit and the Holy Spirit is a different and distinct Spirit.

Creeds have their limitations. How could it not be so? Any attempts by man to explain God completely will be limited.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

As for this discussion that Jesus did not create, John says that nothing we see was created except through Him.

Even the creed does say: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. They are all God - one God.

Because Jesus/God made His dwelling among us as a man and emptied Himself to do so, needing then to rely on God the Holy Spirit, just as we have to, does not mean He is not God the Son. And He did not consider it robbery. He did it on purpose and willingly, and it was His plan from the foundation of the world. He came into the world He created and the world did not recognize Him.

Jesus DID create. He was with the Father in the beginning and He WAS God, as John says, and not one thing we see was created except through Him.

 

[brakelite]

If one follows through the many statements in John's Gospel and John's First Epistle, then the doctrine of God in Three Persons emerges very clearly.

I don't quite agree here Farouk. I think John wrote his gospel not to prove the trinity, or even to suggest there was such a one, but to prove Jesus is the literal (not metaphorical) pre-incarnate Son of God. It is interesting that in doing so John didn't even mention Bethlehem. If he was trying to prove Jesus came as a son only in the flesh, surely the prophecies etc and the events surrounding Bethlehem would have been essential to his treatise. But no. Jesus Sonship was not dependant upon the events at Bethlehem...He has always been the Son of God...taking on flesh merely adds to His revelation of the extent of His love...and His Father's in giving His Son to become man.
If God gave His only begotten Son, as per John 3:16, then I believe God had a Son to give.

 

[bbyrd009]

Ouch...

been plenty guilty myself I guess

 

[ScottA]

So, Romans 15:6 says clearly and explicitly that God, is the Father of Jesus Christ. All should agree right?

Now in John’s writing, he said of Jesus’ words: “…The Father is ‘greater’ than I…” Another explicit statement forming a firm foundation of truth together with Romans 15:6 that Jesus was and is today subordinate to God, his Father, and ALWAYS shall be.

Just a note about the English translated word ‘greater’ of John 14:28 and in 10:29, from the Greek transliterated word ‘meizon.’ It does not refer to God’s superior greatness in strength or of Truth etc., as most believe think. It is indicative of God’s eternal endless age as the source of life. God was and is the same today as tomorrow. He is the source of life, even for Jesus. Jesus was created, never his Father. Jesus told his disciplines he is going to his Father in heaven because he is the original source of life and Deity, or Godliness, and Holiness. In order Jesus to live in spirit he HAD TO go to HIS Father. In context, Jesus is saying to his disciplines on the eve of his crucifixion that His Father shall resurrect him back to life anew in him (his Father). They truly shall be one in spirit and not just in purpose and in 'separate' spirits when Jesus was a man as voice by him in John 10:30.

(Joh 10:29) My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
(Joh 10:30) I and the Father are one.

As true believers we shall also be in Christ as he is in the Father. The Father then shall be in all….we shall really know this in the next life.

These are the supporting verses in the KJV:

(Joh 14:19) Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

(Joh 14:20) At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

----------------------------------------------------------------

(Joh 14:28) You have heard that I said to you: I go away, and I come unto you. If you loved me you would indeed be glad, because I go to the Father: for the Father is greater than I. (DRB-Catholic version).

(Joh 14:28) Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. (KJV)

I present both scripture versions of the Catholic and KJV of John 14:28 because the latter is more in line with the original text. The KJV personalizes Jesus’ relationship with HIS Father. This is accurate. It also says that Jesus shall come AGAIN, through spirit and not physical appearance and contact.

Still, even after presenting scripture as these with explanation to folks of Romans 15:6 and John 14:28 etc, that Jesus was born of God, and God, his Father, brought him back from death, many with still attempt to immediately spin it without by parroting their hardwired beliefs of the pagan ‘incarnation’ and Trinity by misapplying other scripture as support.

It’s a never-ending-cycle of confusion and chaos. Why cannot some folks start again from scratch and pray to the spirit of God for guidance in relooking at their most cherished beliefs. They most probably are ‘dead’ wrong. How can one grow with a set of pagan belief systems fogging the mind? What have they got to lose I say, only the TRUTH!

Blessings,

APAK

Having come from no pagan or other belief systems...

The "confusion and chaos" simply comes from thinking as men think, which you now also do by rationalizing what seems right according to men's thinking and understanding. But in doing so, you have effectively dismantled the eternity of both God and man. We are not born of God to be subordinate, neither was Jesus...except for "a time, times, and half a time." Of these things you lack understanding, and show yourself to be a mere student, and no teacher, except in prolonging the "time."

On the contrary, we are not born to be subordinate forever, but rather to be eternal with God and One, as God expands his own territory. Which unlike the life we (including Jesus) have or had in the world, which passes away, the life we have in Christ and God, does not pass away. By definition, none who are eternal as God is eternal, are subordinate. No part of God is subordinate to himself, and if we are born of him, we are born of and into his eternity, no less than himself. One.

Nevertheless, those who think like men will also talk like men, and teach like men.

 

[CoreIssue]

Appearing as an angel of light but we are able to discern his spirit or at least we should be able to.

That requires the gift of discernment of spirits. Not everyone has it.