The Prophets told the Truth like Liars tell Lies.

[ScottA]

There is no doubt a great irony in the world--that those sent from God, going against the flow and current of this world, must tell the truth with the same kind of determination that compels liars to keep lying to keep from being found out. Except those who are sent from God are not compelled by a lie, but by the truth.

Unfortunately, that means that for the most part, those sent from God have not been believed, and the truth is greatly taken as a lie.

And so, biblical history is very often a story of the rejection of the those who were sent from God, more often rejected than received. Even the Son of God.

Luke 13:35
See! Your house is left to you desolate; and assuredly, I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”​

 

[Keraz]

Prophecy is for Believers 1 Corinthians 14:22b

The Bible has plenty of information on how the Lord’s plans have been fulfilled in the past and what we can expect in our future. Also, according to His plan, very few will truly understand the full scope and implications of future events. Daniel 12:10 Some reasons for this are:

1/ Those who may profess to be Christian, but in their hearts are not:

1 John 4:4-6 Believers in Christ, you belong in God’s family and you can discern false prophets because the God who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. The world listens to the teachings of worldly people, but we belong to God and whoever knows God pays heed to the truth, those who are not His people cannot comprehend the prophetic message.

Isaiah 29:13-14 The Lord says: Because this people worship Me with empty words and pay Me lip service, while their hearts are far from Me and their religion is but human precepts, learnt by rote; therefore I shall shock them and shock again and their wisdom and discernment will be lost. Matthew 7:21-23

2/ Belief in false teaching, leading to a fixed mindset of wrong ideas: Ezekiel 14:3-5

The prime example of a false teaching is the pre-tribulation rapture. This idea denies many Scriptures that say; all will be tested, 1 Peter 4:12, Luke 21:35. This leads to a careless attitude toward prophecy. If you believe you are good enough and sufficiently holy to be taken directly to heaven, then you will be judged for judging yourself. Humility and trust in the Lord’s saving grace, Isaiah 30:15, must be our attitude, not the pretentious belief of a removal from the earth to avoid any perceived difficulties. In John 17:15 Jesus asks for protection, not removal and in John 3:13 No one will go to heaven, only He who came from it.

2 Peter 2:1-3 In the past, there were false prophets among the people, just as now you will have false teachers. They will promote their theories and speculations, twisting Scripture to suit their fanciful notions. Many will follow their sheer fabrications and credulous people will make them rich and famous, but judgement waits for them: a long prepared destruction will fall upon their heads.

Jeremiah 23:16-17 The Lord says: Do not listen to your false prophets, who give you false hope and voice their own fancies, it is not the Lord’s Words they speak. They say: ‘prosperity will be yours’ and to all who follow their devious beliefs: ‘No harm will befall you’.

Isaiah 29:9-12 The Lord says: I will place My spirit of mis-understanding upon all those who are ‘drunk, but not with wine’ [that is: who allow themselves to be fooled by false teachings], so it becomes impossible for them to see the truth. Isaiah 8:16

3/ Preterism and non-literal interpretation:

To think that all prophecies have been fulfilled or they are just metaphors and allegories, is a serious error that leaves those who believe that way, without proper knowledge or understanding about the end times.

2 Peter 1:19 We confirm the message of the prophets, to which you will do well to study; it will enlighten your minds, like a lamp shining into a dark place.

4/ Denial or straight out refusal to try to comprehend the prophesies:

Ezekiel 33:31-33 My people will listen to the prophets, but they will not take any action. Fine Words, they will say but with insincerity, for their hearts are set on selfish gain. When disaster strikes, as it will, then they will know the truth of prophecy.

Isaiah 48:3-6 Long ago, I announced what will happen, but because of your stubbornness and your refusal to accept instruction, you think everything can be explained by chance or by natural occurrence. You read the Word, consider it well and admit the truth of it.

Hosea 9:7 The Day of punishment and vengeance comes and all Israel will know it. Their prophets are fools and their wise leaders are like madmen, because they are all deep in enmity with God and He will remember their guilt.


Revelation 22:7b…Happy is the person who takes to heart the Words of prophecy in this Book.

 

[ScottA]

No one will go to heaven, only He who came from it.

I liked much of your post, and I know this is a pet peeve of yours...but it does not agree with scripture:

John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

Matthew 23:13
“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.​

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

When one considers the world to be upright, it is logical that to keep from being found out a liar must keep lying.

But if the world lives a lie as children of the father of lies--a prophet is one who tells the truth, not compelled by a lie, but by the truth and keeps telling it. Which is/was then rejected because the truth goes against the flow and current of this world.

And so, biblical history is very often a story of the rejection of the those who were sent from God, more often rejected than received. Even the Son of God.

Luke 13:35
See! Your house is left to you desolate; and assuredly, I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”​

Your OP appears as if you're worried more about breaking posting rules than you are of making a cogent point.

Please reword your message.

 

[ScottA]

3/ Preterism and non-literal interpretation:

To think that all prophecies have been fulfilled or they are just metaphors and allegories, is a serious error that leaves those who believe that way, without proper knowledge or understanding about the end times.

2 Peter 1:19 We confirm the message of the prophets, to which you will do well to study; it will enlighten your minds, like a lamp shining into a dark place.

I do not condone the Preterist beliefs who swung the pendulum too far--and yet not far enough. That is, they promoted the idea that since Christ fulfilled all that He came to fulfill and "It is finished", that future generations just missed out...or something like that.

What they missed Paul filled in by explaining that the end was not "as some believe" (the Preterists), but comes rather to "each one in his own order" after which he said, "Then comes the end." Thus, the church age was to be each hearing Jesus standing at the door knocking, and "each one in his own order" answering Him and letting Him in, that it would be "no longer they who live, but Christ who lives in them." Which is the return of Christ in the flesh.

All this is according to the biblical truth of our times this church age and the foretold great apostacy--which is that "strong delusion" that has come as a result of those "false teachers" entering the early church and the "lie" that most have now believed. This too is biblical prophecy--and fact:

That foretold "lie" (and I encourage ALL to go and read of it again in order to get back on track with Jesus), is that much of the early church did not believe what Jesus said about Him "coming quickly" after His going to the the Father, and all "the things which must shortly take place" regarding that "evil generation" that crucified Him. Read it again: Matthew 24:34 Revelation 22:20 Revelation 22:6

Alternatively, seceding generations then found it easier to believe the "lie" and that "the things which must shortly take place" would instead come at some future date--against what Jesus had said. The result then, is the false doctrine and "gap theory" of Daniel's prophecy of seventy weeks, that one week remains yet unfulfilled against the words of Jesus that they "must shortly take place."

These are the facts of scripture regarding our time. The question is--what will you do after you have been made aware of them?​

 

[ScottA]

Your OP appears as if you're worried more about breaking posting rules than you are of making a cogent point.

Please reword your message.

Thanks--I did! You are correct--standing on my head to explain what is wrongly upside down and backwards...made it rather confusing.

 

[Keraz]

I liked much of your post, and I know this is a pet peeve of yours...but it does not agree with scripture:

John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

Matthew 23:13
“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.​

John 14:1-4 is a prophecy about the New Jerusalem, which comes to the earth after the Millennium. Revelation 21:1-7
Matthew 23:13 refers to a Spiritual heaven, our state now, as faithful believers in Jesus.

Nowhere does the Bible say the Lord will take His peoples up to heaven. After the Millennium, God and therefore heaven; come to us.

seceding generations then found it easier to believe the "lie" and that "the things which must shortly take place" would instead come at some future date--against what Jesus had said. The result then, is the false doctrine and "gap theory" of Daniel's prophecy of seventy weeks, that one week remains yet unfulfilled against the words of Jesus that they "must shortly take place."

Of course you mean succeeding; meaning coming after, not 'seceding' like the Confederate states did.

WE are a succeeding generation and the final one, the Generation who will see all the end times unfold as prophesied.
Any preterist notions of earlier fulfilment simply do not relate to the historical record.
It is certain that the 70th 'week' of Daniel, remains unfulfilled. Revelation clearly describes what will happen during the second half of it.

 

[ScottA]

John 14:1-4 is a prophecy about the New Jerusalem, which comes to the earth after the Millennium. Revelation 21:1-7
Matthew 23:13 refers to a Spiritual heaven, our state now, as faithful believers in Jesus.

Nowhere does the Bible say the Lord will take His peoples up to heaven. After the Millennium, God and therefore heaven; come to us.

There are hundreds of verses in scripture regarding "our Father in heaven", Jesus going "to Him", and then coming for us "that we might be where He is"...and "Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven."

As for "Spiritual heaven"--heaven is spiritual...but you make it out to be some state of temporary worldly bliss rather than the kingdom of God. But no, now our experience is rather dimly, ever increasing, but then face to face.

WE are a succeeding generation and the final one, the Generation who will see all the end times unfold as prophesied.
Any preterist notions of earlier fulfilment simply do not relate to the historical record.
It is certain that the 70th 'week' of Daniel, remains unfulfilled. Revelation clearly describes what will happen during the second half of it.

Indeed, we are a succeeding generation--just as they all have been since that evil generation which brought desolation upon us all according to Daniel's prophecy. As for the seventieth week being unfulfilled, that is the "lie" and the unbelief that has brought "strong delusion" and great apostacy according to what was actually foretold of our times, rather than the "lie." Your doctrine against all that Jesus said would "shortly take place" is proof of it. You are just one of its victims. This was His warning:

“Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:45-51​

 

[No Pre-TB]

There are hundreds of verses in scripture regarding "our Father in heaven", Jesus going "to Him", and then coming for us "that we might be where He is"...and "Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

Hello Scott. Just my 2 cents my friend.
The kingdom of heaven that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are seen in is the New Jerusalem. This same place is that which those who are unsaved are thrust out of. Are we not a holy priesthood now, and will be compromised of a kingdom of heaven when Christ reigns?

Heaven is the upper sky. Yet we are never promised heaven, God’s throne. We are promised paradise which the word describes a well watered garden, like Eden. When has heaven ever been described as a well watered garden? Or Eden?

 

[Raccoon1010]

There is no doubt a great irony in the world--that those sent from God, going against the flow and current of this world, must tell the truth with the same kind of determination that compels liars to keep lying to keep from being found out. Except those who are sent from God are not compelled by a lie, but by the truth.

Unfortunately, that means that for the most part, those sent from God have not been believed, and the truth is greatly taken as a lie.

And so, biblical history is very often a story of the rejection of the those who were sent from God, more often rejected than received. Even the Son of God.

Luke 13:35
See! Your house is left to you desolate; and assuredly, I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”​

Yes and the earth has a large history of false prophets. List of dates predicted for apocalyptic events - Wikipedia

 

[ScottA]

Hello Scott. Just my 2 cents my friend.
The kingdom of heaven that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are seen in is the New Jerusalem. This same place is that which those who are unsaved are thrust out of. Are we not a holy priesthood now, and will be compromised of a kingdom of heaven when Christ reigns?

Heaven is the upper sky. Yet we are never promised heaven, God’s throne. We are promised paradise which the word describes a well watered garden, like Eden. When has heaven ever been described as a well watered garden? Or Eden?

Christ's reign began when all power and authority in heaven and earth were given to Him.

Notice the passage I quoted says "heaven"...which is that same heaven of our Father in heaven. New Jerusalem is certainly in that same heaven, but that is not the extent of it. Heaven is the complete realm and kingdom of God.

As for "the upper sky", Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are not in the upper sky, nor are they in heaven. But it is written, heaven is the promise of God which Christ confirmed is instore for them...and for all who are in Him.

As for heaven being "a well watered garden? Or Eden?", it still is...as men no longer walk there--but God does.

 

[Keraz]

As for "Spiritual heaven"--heaven is spiritual...but you make it out to be some state of temporary worldly bliss rather than the kingdom of God. But no, now our experience is rather dimly, ever increasing, but then face to face.

It will be like heaven on earth after Jesus Returns and after the Millennium, God will come to dwell with mankind. Revelation 21:1-7

This was His warning:

Matthew 25:44-51 applies to us today. It refers to the Return of Jesus and the rewards and punishments He will give out then.

Thinking it did shortly take place, is sheer confusion and error.

 

[ScottA]

It will be like heaven on earth after Jesus Returns and after the Millennium, God will come to dwell with mankind. Revelation 21:1-7

Matthew 25:44-51 applies to us today. It refers to the Return of Jesus and the rewards and punishments He will give out then.

Thinking it did shortly take place, is sheer confusion and error.

Then answer this question:

Do you believe that after He first came, Jesus went to the Father as He said? And if so, has He since returned and come into you?​

 

[Keraz]

Do you believe that after He first came, Jesus went to the Father as He said? And if so, has He since returned and come into you?

Jesus physically and visibly Ascended to heaven after His first Advent.
Jesus is Spiritually and invisibly with His faithful people thru all this Church age, Matthew 28:20
Jesus will Return visibly: in what kind of body, we don't know, and will reign over the earth for the next 1000 years.

 

[ScottA]

Jesus physically and visibly Ascended to heaven after His first Advent.
Jesus is Spiritually and invisibly with His faithful people thru all this Church age, Matthew 28:20
Jesus will Return visibly: in what kind of body, we don't know, and will reign over the earth for the next 1000 years.

So...you have Jesus returning once in the glory of the Father (spiritually) and then also coming a third time.

That is not what the scriptures say. Not as it is written, but as it has been taught. It was added, where it should not have been added.

That is the common misunderstanding of what occurred at His ascension--which by definition ought to have been enough information, but the flesh is weak and seeks its own glory.

 

[Keraz]

So...you have Jesus returning once in the glory of the Father (spiritually) and then also coming a third time.

Actually; it is the Holy Spirit, who is with us during the Church age.

You seem to be quite confused and unable to understand how it is at present, with the Holy Spirit as our Comforter. It came at Pentecost and is with us today.

 

[ScottA]

Actually; it is the Holy Spirit, who is with us during the Church age.

You seem to be quite confused and unable to understand how it is at present, with the Holy Spirit as our Comforter. It came at Pentecost and is with us today.

That is only the smaller part. Jesus also clearly indicated how He Himself would come [again] and be with us "until the end of the age", saying, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."

But most, including yourself, have downplayed it as if the spirit of Christ is not the full glory of the Father--perfect in all of His ways; and looking for something else--something less, for all this time have missed "seeing Him as He is."

As I said, this is the result of not fully perceiving what actually occurred at Jesus' ascension...so I will start a new thread and explain it.

 

[Scott Downey]

I liked much of your post, and I know this is a pet peeve of yours...but it does not agree with scripture:

John 14:3​

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.​

​

Matthew 23:13​

“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.​

John 3:13 means no one ascends into heaven but Christ and Christ is the only way to the Father who is in heaven.
So we ascend only with and because of Christ, before Christ came no one ascended into heaven on their own and after the resurrection, Christ opened the way into heaven for all peoples. Christian people today do go to where Christ is, in heaven, But in OT times, righteous people went to paradise at death as they could not be perfected without Christ. The righteous dead were the captives, who were in Paradise a part of Sheol, Hades, the place of the OT dead. They were held there but it was not a bad place, but it was also not eternal life.

Ephesians 4:7-10
New King James Version

7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore He says:

“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”

9 (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also [a]first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)

 

[Scott Downey]

Hebrews 2 also mentions the captivity of death that Christ came to rend-destroy for the children of God, all those whom God gives to Christ as believers are no longer captive to the fear of and reality of death, perishing in hades. They now have eternal life with God as their Father.

10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both He who [g]sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying:

“I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You.”
13 And again:

“I will put My trust in Him.”
And again:

“Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”

14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not [h]give aid to angels, but He does [i]give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being [j]tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

Christ only helps the 'seed of Abraham', do not think Jewish people here...The seed are all those who are faithful to and love God as they were before time began called by Him to belong to Christ as a part of the family of God. Only they are the children of God. Not all are the children of God, many are the children of the devil. God does not help devils, or the children of the devil to salvation.

 

[Scott Downey]

2 Timothy 1

8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God,

9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher [c]of the Gentiles. 12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.