The Prophets told the Truth like Liars tell Lies.

[No Pre-TB]

But in OT times, righteous people went to paradise at death as they could not be perfected without Christ.

The thief on the cross was perfected and promised paradise, not heaven. As he said to Christ: Remember me when thou cometh into thy kingdom! The kingdom on earth in the New Jerusalem is the paradise of God.

 

[Scott Downey]

The thief on the cross was perfected and promised paradise, not heaven. As he said to Christ: Remember me when thou cometh into thy kingdom! The kingdom on earth in the New Jerusalem is the paradise of God.

Exactly so, before the resurrection, all the righteous (justified by faith) dead, went to paradise which was at the time Abraham's bosum in hades.
Jesus tells the thief, THAT DAY, he will be with Christ in Paradise. We know Jesus when HE died on the day, descended into the lower parts of the earth, HADES, and also preached to the dead in thoise places. Hades-Hell-Sheol are all compartmentalized, and those there are captives, they cannot get out and go anywhere else.

Context of locations are key.

Luke 23:42-44​

New King James Version​

​

42 Then he said [a]to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”​

43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Jesus Dies on the Cross​

44 Now it [b]was about the sixth hour, and there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.

So Jesus dies and takes the thief into paradise that very day. We know Jesus descended at death into Hades, so logically Paradise at this time is in Hades.
Hades, Hell, Sheol, Paradise which is Abrahm's Bosum, are all in the lower parts of the earth. Ephesians 4, where the dead are all in their appointed places.

WHEN Christ ascended, He led captivity captive. The next time we read of Paradise, it is in Heaven in Revelation. That proves Christ brought up the captivity of those in Paradise by taking all of Paradise into heaven to be united with God once again, like Eden was the paradise of God on earth before the fall and there was no separation of man and God, now it is brought into heaven by Christ and no longer separated from God, man and God are again together because of the work of Christ.

The tree of life is always in Paradise, both at the beginning of time in Eden before the fall of man, and at the end of time at man's reunification of life with God.
Revelation 2:7
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” ’


Genesis 2:9
And out of the ground the Lord God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Jesus tells the thief, THAT DAY, he will be with Christ in Paradise. We know Jesus when HE died on the day, descended into the lower parts of the earth, HADES, and also preached to the dead in thoise places.

I believe you’re adding. Jesus only said today you will be with me in paradise doesn’t always mean that day. Context is key right?
1. Where is the comma?
Is it:

I say unto you, Today you will be with me in paradise or;

I say unto you Today, you will be with me in paradise

The context is the thief recognized his sins, admitted them, acknowledged Christ and that he’d be resurrected because how could he come into his kingdom if he’s about to die? Christ responds because of the thief’s faith that very day, now he will see him in paradise. Today he’ll be in paradise. He’s not forgotten. Christ assured him he’ll be remembered when that day comes. Not in heaven as a Christian as no one goes to heaven or is promised it, but one day in paradise for the dead do not rise till the heavens are no more.

 

[Scott Downey]

I believe you’re adding. Jesus only said today you will be with me in paradise doesn’t always mean that day. Context is key right?
1. Where is the comma?
Is it:

I say unto you, Today you will be with me in paradise or;

I say unto you Today, you will be with me in paradise

The context is the thief recognized his sins, admitted them, acknowledged Christ and that he’d be resurrected because how could he come into his kingdom if he’s about to die? Christ responds because of the thief’s faith that very day, now he will see him in paradise. Today he’ll be in paradise. He’s not forgotten. Christ assured him he’ll be remembered when that day comes. Not in heaven as a Christian as no one goes to heaven or is promised it, but one day in paradise for the dead do not rise till the heavens are no more.

43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Is the same day, can not mean anything else, the assuredly also adds emphasis to partial sentence phrase "today you will be with Me in Paradise."

 

[Scott Downey]

Here are many of the versions of that verse, all imply the self same day
Some even use 'garden', and 'Eden' instead of paradise showing the linking.

KJ21
And Jesus said unto him, “Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with Me in Paradise.”
ASV
And he said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To-day shalt thou be with me in Paradise.
AMP
Jesus said to him, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
AMPC
And He answered him, Truly I tell you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.
BRG
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
CSB
And he said to him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
CEB
Jesus replied, “I assure you that today you will be with me in paradise.”
CJB
Yeshua said to him, “Yes! I promise that you will be with me today in Gan-‘Eden.”
CEV
Jesus replied, “I promise that today you will be with me in paradise.”
DARBY
And Jesus said to him, Verily I say to thee, To-day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
DLNT
And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, you will be with Me today in paradise”.
DRA
And Jesus said to him: Amen I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise.

 

[Scott Downey]

ERV
Then Jesus said to him, “I promise you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
EHV
Jesus said to him, “Amen I tell you: Today you will be with me in paradise.”
ESV
And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
ESVUK
And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”
EXB
Jesus said to him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise [C heaven or the presence of God].”
GNV
Then Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in Paradise.
GW
Jesus said to him, “I can guarantee this truth: Today you will be with me in paradise.”
GNT
Jesus said to him, “I promise you that today you will be in Paradise with me.”
HCSB
And He said to him, “I assure you: Today you will be with Me in paradise.”
ICB
Then Jesus said to him, “Listen! What I say is true: Today you will be with me in paradise!”
ISV
Jesus told him, “I tell you with certainty, today you will be with me in Paradise.”
PHILLIPS
And Jesus answered, “I tell you truly, this day you will be with me in paradise.”
JUB
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
KJV
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
AKJV
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
LEB
And he said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
TLB
And Jesus replied, “Today you will be with me in Paradise. This is a solemn promise.”
MSG
He said, “Don’t worry, I will. Today you will join me in paradise.”
MEV
Jesus said to him, “Truly, I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
MOUNCE
And Jesus said to him, “In solemn truth I tell you: today you will be with me in · paradise.”
NOG
Yeshua said to him, “I can guarantee this truth: Today you will be with me in paradise.”
NABRE
He replied to him, “Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”
NASB
And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
NASB1995
And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”
NCB
Jesus said to him, “Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”
NCV
Jesus said to him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”
NET
And Jesus said to him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”
NIRV
Jesus answered him, “What I’m about to tell you is true. Today you will be with me in paradise.”
NIV
Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
NIVUK
Jesus answered him, ‘Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.’
NKJV
And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
NLV
Jesus said to him, “For sure, I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
NLT
And Jesus replied, “I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
NMB
And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, today you shall be with me in Paradise.
NRSVA
He replied, ‘Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise.’
NRSVACE
He replied, ‘Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise.’
NRSVCE
He replied, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”
NRSVUE
He replied, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
NTE
‘I’m telling you the truth,’ replied Jesus, ‘you’ll be with me in paradise, this very day.’
OJB
And Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach said to him, Omein, I say to you, hayom (today) with me you will be in Gan Eden.
RGT
Then Jesus said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”
RSV
And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”
RSVCE
And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”
TLV
Yeshua said to him, “Amen, I tell you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”
VOICE
Jesus: I promise you that this very day you will be with Me in paradise.
WEB
Jesus said to him, “Assuredly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”
WE
And Jesus said to him, `I tell you the truth. Today you will be with me in God's garden of paradise.'
WYC
And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise.
YLT
and Jesus said to him, `Verily I say to thee, To-day with me thou shalt be in the paradise.'

 

[No Pre-TB]

today you will be with Me in Paradise."

Did Christ go to paradise the day he died till he rose 3 days later? Does any other scripture mention where he was in those 3 days?

 

[Scott Downey]

Did Christ go to paradise the day he died till he rose 3 days later? Does any other scripture mention where he was in those 3 days?

Paradise was in Hades-Hell-Sheol, really the place where people went when they died, they were separated from heaven and could not live with God in heaven yet. Until Christ came down from heaven to show them the way to eternal life, only then they could have eternal life.

Here is more on where Christ was after dying on the cross.

Acts 2
22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you [f]have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having [g]loosed the [h]pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him:

‘I foresaw the Lord always before my face,
For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad;
Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the ways of life;
You will make me full of joy in Your presence.’

29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, [i]according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted [j]to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.

34 “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:

‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” ’
36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”


Christ went to Hades or HELL. And also preached to some in that place of hell.

1 Peter 3
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring [f]us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, [g]when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.

All those that died back in the flood of Noah were all imprisoned in HELL, all died, and that is where Christ went.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Christ went to Hades or HELL. And also preached to some in that place of hell.

Right. Christ died and went to hades, not heaven because he was to be the first fruits of them that sleep. When the thief died, didn’t he go to hades just like Jesus? Doesn’t scripture say, all who hear his voice when he returns will be in their graves? Not heaven but graves, tombs per John 5:28
And we’re told Christ apostles could not go to heaven in John 13:36
And Hebrews 9:27 says all die once, then the judgment. And that judgment isn’t at death, but is at a specific day Acts 17:31 and 2 Timothy 4:1

And even Irenaeus in book XXXI, 2 says,
For as the Lord "went away in the midst of the shadow of death," where the souls of the dead were, yet afterwards arose in the body, and after the resurrection was taken up [into heaven], it is manifest that the souls of His disciples also, upon whose account the Lord underwent these things, shall go away into the invisible place allotted to them by God, and there remain until the resurrection, awaiting that event; then receiving their bodies, and rising in their entirety, that is bodily, just as the Lord arose, they shall come thus into the presence of God. "For no disciple is above the Master, but every one that is perfect shall be as his Master." As our Master, therefore, did not at once depart, taking flight [to heaven], but awaited the time of His resurrection prescribed by the Father, which had been also shown forth through Jonas, and rising again after three days was taken up [to heaven]; so ought we also to await the time of our resurrection prescribed by God and foretold by the prophets, and so, rising, be taken up, as many as the Lord shall account worthy of this [privilege].

 

[Scott Downey]

Right. Christ died and went to hades, not heaven because he was to be the first fruits of them that sleep. When the thief died, didn’t he go to hades just like Jesus? Doesn’t scripture say, all who hear his voice when he returns will be in their graves? Not heaven but graves, tombs per John 5:28
And we’re told Christ apostles could not go to heaven in John 13:36
And Hebrews 9:27 says all die once, then the judgment. And that judgment isn’t at death, but is at a specific day Acts 17:31 and 2 Timothy 4:1

And even Irenaeus in book XXXI, 2 says,
For as the Lord "went away in the midst of the shadow of death," where the souls of the dead were, yet afterwards arose in the body, and after the resurrection was taken up [into heaven], it is manifest that the souls of His disciples also, upon whose account the Lord underwent these things, shall go away into the invisible place allotted to them by God, and there remain until the resurrection, awaiting that event; then receiving their bodies, and rising in their entirety, that is bodily, just as the Lord arose, they shall come thus into the presence of God. "For no disciple is above the Master, but every one that is perfect shall be as his Master." As our Master, therefore, did not at once depart, taking flight [to heaven], but awaited the time of His resurrection prescribed by the Father, which had been also shown forth through Jonas, and rising again after three days was taken up [to heaven]; so ought we also to await the time of our resurrection prescribed by God and foretold by the prophets, and so, rising, be taken up, as many as the Lord shall account worthy of this [privilege].

Looks like Irenaeus said the same in his own words.
Christ went to hell after death and before his resurrection.
After God raised Christ from the dead, he went into heaven.
If you do not believe that, then you do not believe Christ did those things, yet they are according to the scriptures.

Acts 2
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

 

[Scott Downey]

Text[edit]​

The following gives the original Latin text, with the traditional division into twelve articles,[21][22] alongside an English translation. Underlined passages are those not present in the Old Roman Symbol as recorded by Tyrannius Rufinus.

Credo
0:54
The Creed in Latin spoken with the Ecclesiastical pronunciation of Latin

The apostles creed about Christ also says the same thing.

---

Problems playing this file? See media help.

1. Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem, Creatorem caeli et terrae,	I believe in God the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth,
2. et in Iesum Christum, Filium Eius unicum, Dominum nostrum,	and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
3. qui conceptus est de Spiritu Sancto, natus ex Maria Virgine,	who was conceived from the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary,
4. passus sub Pontio Pilato, crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus,	who suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried,
5. descendit ad inferos, tertia die resurrexit a mortuis,	descended into hell, rose again from the dead on the third day,
6. ascendit ad caelos, sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis,	ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty,
7. inde venturus est iudicare vivos et mortuos.	who will come again to judge the living and the dead.
8. Credo in Spiritum Sanctum,	I believe in the Holy Spirit,
9. sanctam Ecclesiam catholicam, sanctorum communionem,	the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints,
10. remissionem peccatorum,	the forgiveness of sins,
11. carnis resurrectionem,	the resurrection of the body,
12. vitam aeternam. Amen.[23]	and the life everlasting. Amen.

 

[Scott Downey]

Evidence for Christ’s Descent Into Hell – Orthodox-Reformed Bridge

orthodoxbridge.com

Even Irenaeus says the same thing.
Well written, a good read about orthodox non heretical beliefs.

Descended into the heart or the lower parts of the earth at death, is the underworld of hell.
Hell is in the earth in some place and is composed of regions, compartments. Tartarus is also one of the regions of hell, an especially deep and dark place where Peter says God imprisoned the fallen angels who sinned before the flood to await the judgement of the great day of God Almighty.

 

[Zao is life]

There is no doubt a great irony in the world--that those sent from God, going against the flow and current of this world, must tell the truth with the same kind of determination that compels liars to keep lying to keep from being found out. Except those who are sent from God are not compelled by a lie, but by the truth.

Unfortunately, that means that for the most part, those sent from God have not been believed, and the truth is greatly taken as a lie.

And so, biblical history is very often a story of the rejection of the those who were sent from God, more often rejected than received. Even the Son of God.

Luke 13:35​

See! Your house is left to you desolate; and assuredly, I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”​

You title makes it sound like the prophets lie. Thank goodness we all know what you mean.

 

[Zao is life]

I liked much of your post, and I know this is a pet peeve of yours...but it does not agree with scripture:

John 14:3​

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.​

​

Matthew 23:13​

“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.​

Well that is beginning to confirm my suspicion that the reason for your first statement is to claim that if I believe in a literal millennium it's because the prophets have said so, and the prophets don't lie, but if you're an a-millennialist, then it's because you don't believe the truth of the prophets but the lies of the liars.

.. so let's turn it the other way around..

see where I'm going?

Is that where you are going with your original statement? If so, it's yet another classic example of a poster beginning with a statement that is true in order to imply (what is a logical fallacy) that whatever else he says about what the prophets meant is true, and is no lie.

Except that it never works because all discerning saints recognize it as the kind of tactic used by false prophets and false teachers.

That's why I prefer it when people rather just explain why they believe that "this" is what the prophets, Jesus and the apostles meant, and why they believe "this" is scriptural, instead of trying to support what they're saying with such tactics.

 

[Zao is life]

That is only the smaller part. Jesus also clearly indicated how He Himself would come [again] and be with us "until the end of the age", saying, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."

But most, including yourself, have downplayed it as if the spirit of Christ is not the full glory of the Father--perfect in all of His ways; and looking for something else--something less, for all this time have missed "seeing Him as He is."

As I said, this is the result of not fully perceiving what actually occurred at Jesus' ascension...so I will start a new thread and explain it.

Why make false accusations about what someone who disagrees with you believes or does not believe?

It's just another tactic to give more support to what you are saying?

Please just stick to the reasons why you believe that this or "this" is what these scriptures mean, and why you believe it's a current reality.

You are likewise "downplaying" the following scriptures by over-emphasizing the scriptures you quote and de-emphasizing everything else:

But as it is written, "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard," nor has it entered into the heart of man, "the things which God has prepared for those who love Him." 1 Corinthians 2:9

1 John
2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be. But we know that when He shall be revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
3 And everyone who has this hope on him purifies himself, even as that One is pure.

@ScottA

The New Testament and our place in Christ includes both a "now" and "not yet" - with the "not yet" part being the hope that we are so frequently told about by the apostles.

 

[Timtofly]

Did Christ go to paradise the day he died till he rose 3 days later? Does any other scripture mention where he was in those 3 days?

The Lord did. Paradise was never in Abraham's bosom. The tree of life was never in Abraham's bosom. Nor were the OT redeemed ever in Paradise with the tree of life.

Places have names for a reason. Abraham's bosom was the waiting place until the Atonement was physical on earth, at the Cross. The physical resurrection is the first resurrection, and it happened to the OT redeemed so they could enter Paradise.

It is not that the physical is banned. It is that Adam's dead corruptible flesh is banned. The Garden now called Paradise is a physical place with the redeemed in physical bodies. The Cross opened Paradise physically.