The Rapture and the Tribulation - Short

[The Light]

It does not say in Revelation 6:12-17, the sixth seal, that the great tribulation is over. The great tribulation is not over until the abomination of desolation statue image is destroyed, turned to ashes.

The scripture below shows that the great tribulation which is the tribulation of those days is over at the 6th seal.

The is not scripture that says the great tribulation s not over until the abomination of desolation statue image is destroyed, turned to ashes. That concept comes from 1 Douggg.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

The great tribulation will be a time of trouble that the world has not seen, nor ever will again. There will be Satan's wrath taking place during that time.

Exactly.

And also God's wrath taking place at that time.

Is this in 2 Douggg?

My Bible does not contain 2 Douggg. My Bible says that the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The 7th seal contains the trumpets and vials of Gods wrath. THEREFORE, they do not take place at the same time.

No, the exact timing of the first four angels trumpet plagues is not given. Only the sequence.

The timing is given. It takes place in the 7th seal. The seventh comes after the 6th seal. Simple.

 

[Douggg]

Right.

According to the scripture in 1 Douggg?

I am unaware of any scripture that says that the great tribulation is over when the statue image of the beast-king is no longer standing in the holy place. Can you produce this scripture? or are you making stuff up again?

Why not try using the Word of God to determine when the great tribulation is over.

The tribulation of those days, which is the great tribulation, is over at the 6th seal. Cut and dried, without question, scriptural FACT. We don't need your sledgehammer beating events into places they do not belong.

This is a prefect example of why your charts are in error.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.


What do you mean THEREFORE? You provided a statement form 1 Douggg and theN conclude THEREFORE, without any scriptural support whatsoever.


I'm not interested in your illustration of something that you have made up.

I am interested in the scripture that proves what you are saying is correct. We both know that you cannot provide it.

However, I have provided the scriptural that proves that the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. ADJUST YOUR CHART ACCORDINGLY.

In Revelation 20:1-3, where is Satan when the angel comes down from heaven to bind him with a chain ?

You need to look at my illustration, the abomination of desolation statue image being destroyed, and the bible passages noted next to it. Go read those. And maybe you will understand that the great tribulation is not over until the abomination statue image - which triggers the great tribulation is destroyed.

You are the one in post #125 who said - "Tribulation is when the dragon is trying to kill Christians." So how does the great tribulation end without Satan being dealt with ?

 

[The Light]

We KNOW it is 7 years.

There is no scripture that says that the great tribulation is 7 years. PERIOD.

From the scripture below we can tell that the Messiah comes 69 weeks after the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem.

Jesus is baptized by John and John says "behold the Lamb of God"

So 69 weeks of the 70 weeks of Daniel have passed when Messiah the prince shows up.

Daniel 9
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall,
even in troublous times.

Then the Word says a covenant with many will be made for one week. PERIOD. The Antichrist will confirm this covenant. There is no mention that he confirms this covenant when it is made. For example a year or two could pass after this covenant is made before the Antichrist confirms it.

Daniel 9
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So to rehash Daniel 9. Jesus shows up after 69 weeks (weeks of 7). Three to three and a half years later, the Messiah is cut off. So of the 70 weeks that are determined upon the people of Daniel, 69 and a half weeks or slightly less have occurred.

We also have a 7 year covenant that will be confirmed by the Antichrist at some point in time after it is made.

Daniel says in the middle of the week ( 3.5 yrs into the 7 YEARS) the AOD takes place.

Right. In the middle of the week the AOD is set up. This is not the middle of the 70th week, it is the middle of the week that a covenant with many is made, which will be confirmed in the future.

So how long is the great tribulation? It is certainly not 7 years.

The great tribulation cannot be longer than one and a half years.

 

[KUWN]

There is no scripture that says that the great tribulation is 7 years. PERIOD.

Nobody believes that the great tribulation is 7 years long. It is only 3 and one half years.

The book of Revelation gives the weeks in the first half of the tribulation as 3 and one half weeks. The Great tribulation is also 3 and one half weeks. The covenant between the Jews and Antichrist is broken after 3 and a half years, in the middle of the Tribulation. That marks the middle of the week.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Nobody believes that the great tribulation is 7 years long. It is only 3 and one half years.

The book of Revelation gives the weeks in the first half of the tribulation as 3 and one half weeks. The Great tribulation is also 3 and one half weeks. The covenant between the Jews and Antichrist is broken after 3 and a half years, in the middle of the Tribulation. That marks the middle of the week.

I'm trying to understand your view. You say the Tribulation is 7 years long with the second half of it being great tribulation. What tribulation exactly do you think is happening in the first 3.5 years?

 

[Douggg]

Nobody believes that the great tribulation is 7 years long. It is only 3 and one half years.

The book of Revelation gives the weeks in the first half of the tribulation as 3 and one half weeks. The Great tribulation is also 3 and one half weeks. The covenant between the Jews and Antichrist is broken after 3 and a half years, in the middle of the Tribulation. That marks the middle of the week.

Hi KUWN,

The great tribulation begins when the abomination of desolation is standing in a holy place. Matthew24:15-21.

Jesus cited what the prophet Daniel said about the abomination of desolation. So we go to Daniel 12:11-12.

There are two timeframes given in those two verses. 1290 days. 1335 days.

So we subtract 1335 days from the 2520 days of the 7 years. We get 1185. On day 1185 the abomination of desolation will be set up, 1335 days before Jesus returns on day 2520.

Next we count forward from day 1185, 1290 days to day 2475. Most of the great tribulation will be over at that point. Matthew 24:29 calls that portion "the tribulation of those days.

So, what happens on day 2475 ? The answer is in Matthew 24:30.

In Matthew 24:30, there are two parts to that verse.
a. the sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven.
b. Jesus coming in the clouds in great glory and power.

On day 2475, the sign of the Son of man appears in heaven. The sign will be Jesus - sickle in hand.

That event, the sixth seal of Revelation 6:12-17, will terrify the kings of the earth. So in Revelation 16:13-16, they will gather their armies at Armageddon, a place in Israel, to prepare to make war on Jesus and his army.

In Revelation 16:13, they do so at the convincing of the beast-king, the false prophet, and Satan (who will be indwelling the abomination of desolation statue image, making it appear to come to life and speak, and be worshiped).

So for 45 days (day 2475 to day 2520) they make ready, gather, to make war on Jesus and his army (Revelation 19:19).

On day 2520, Jesus descends down to earth. Satan, who will be indwelling the statue image of the beast, will be exposed, as Jesus causes the statue to burst into flames and turned to ashes. Ezekiel 28:16-19 describes that happening. Satan cast down to earth, Revelation 12:7-9, in the middle of the 7 years, becomes a terror to the inhabitants of the earth, knowing his time is short. In Ezekiel 28:19, he becomes a terror no more.

Once Satan is exposed, for the kings of the earth and everyone present to see, in Revelation 19:20, the beast-king and the false prophet will be cast alive into the lake of fire. I suspect a portal, like a fiery whirlpool, will appear in the sky and everyone there that day will see it happen. Then the portal closed.

Then in Revelation 19:21 the kings of the earth and their armies, Jesus will destroy.

Then in Revelation 20:1-3, an angel will descend from heaven to earth, the temple mount, where Satan will be standing, exposed. Satan will be bound with a chain and cast into the bottomless pit. Again, I suspect a portal will open in the sky, like a dark whirlpool, and Satan cast into it. And the portal then closed.

So, the great tribulation will be 1335 days long. It will end on the day Jesus returns and destroys the abomination of desolation statue image, exposing Satan, that everyone will see him there on the temple mount.

abomination of desolation statue image set up on the temple mount. abomination of desolation statue image destroyed when Jesus returns. 1335 days between the two events.