What Martin and 6string said is correct.
John in Rev chapter 4 was caught up in spirit to heaven. The throne room to be exact. This describes a transition from Earth to Heaven. His physical body was not there, but a body is just a body.
2 Cor 12:2 describes a transition from Earth to Heaven. In body, out of body not sure. It is hard to tell if you have not experienced this because we live in a body, and may not notice.
Enoch was taken because He pleased God. Jesus is able to present himself a glorious church without spot of blemish Full of the Holy Spirit. He pleased God, He was taken. Same with the Church, with no spot.
We see in the throne room the 24 Elders. 12 for the OT all the tribes, and 12 for the NT. The foundational apostels of the Church. The sea (Like) Crystal stand there. Crystal being the only mineral where a flaw is easy to spot. I believe that this is the church. Those Elders standing there the 12 or whole 24 represent the Church.(Not sure if the other 12 only represent the Jewish people) Rev 15:2 describe the sea as being mixed with fire. I believe this is the Work of the Holy Spirit, the the whole church body.
This makes sense, as we are then able to make sense of time lines.......................................... If the Church is with the Lord at this time, then everything else falls in place.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
This event is clear. People who are alive on earth will be caught up. At this point we shall be with the Lord. This describes a transition much like John did, and Paul did. Jesus does not come to earth though, That is later and he comes with His people.
These are two separate events. One Jesus Gathers his people the other Jesus comes with people to earth.
This event would not make much sense if it is after the tribulation period. We still have to have the event with the Angels taking away tares.
The event of gathering of people the tares and the Wheat must have occurred after Jesus Catches up the Church in the air, because it is not the Lord that does this, but the Angels separate the tares and the wheat. The Tares and the Wheat not being of the Church Body. Jesus Himself comes to get His Church though, and the Wheat must be those that have overcome the tribulation period.
Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
It is clear at this point, that lots of bad stuff has occurred on the Earth. The saints on the Earth at this time did go though some pretty nasty things. If one thinks the Church is Protected somehow, it can't be the ones on the Earth at this time. Saints had been killed, on the earth, so there was no protection. This could not have been the Church.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
We see in this scripture that war is about to be made against those that keep the commandments of God, and (Not the Gospel of the anointing (Christ) but a testimony of Jesus. This to me describes that God's people at this time have the testimony of John the baptist, who did not baptize in the Holy Spirit but only told of Jesus. Also the keeping of the commandments would suggest more of keeping the old traditions. This does not describe the Church we have now, full of the Holy Spirit being here.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
We soon see in the Next Chapter that Satan did overcome the saints. This is not true of the Church today. The greater on inside us if far more powerful than Satan. Jesus told us we also have authority over Him. So, the Holy Spirit Left us if this is us, or We are not there on Earth.
Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
What are we escaping? Paul goes on to tell us about the work of Jesus, and the defeat of Satan. It is for those that do not neglect Salvation. The Gospel of Christ!!! We see the term used in Rev, but not in the sense of preaching the Gospel. We also do not see the Church mentioned again during the tribulation period, but referred to as Saints and Children of the Kingdom. Not those in Christ as the other gospels, not children of God, and not the Church.
Biggest evidence yet: We may not be here during the Tribulation.
Jesus makes a startling statement.
Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
This is a escape.......... It happens BEFORE these things come to pass, not during, or after. We know from the scriptures above those saints did not Escape, as it was Given Satan to make war with them. So, whatever Escape means, it means it happens before the tribulation, and those that escape are not included with the rest of the Saints described during the Tribulation.
That means that there are those that are not there, as it is clear that during the tribulation, it will try the WHOLE Earth. Everyone!!!
This also coincides that with what Jesus said to one of the Churches about escaping the hour of trail...........
Isa 57:1 The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.
When Evil comes, we see example after example of God taking them out of the way. Now we can't add the word Rapture here, but taken away is clear. Looking at the events of the tribulation period, it would appear that those who have accepted the free gift of righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus will not be around. Those that did not ignore so great a Salvation.
That which was preached during the Tribulation was the testimony of Jesus, Nothing about preaching this Great Salvation. It was the keeping of commandments, and the Knowledge of Jesus. Different than the Chruch today.
If the Church is not here, then this makes sense...........
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
It is only by the coming of our Lord, to gather us, will the next event take place. That is the AntiChrist being revealed. What is withholding that? Paul said it above........... The day of the anointed or day of Christ. (Christ is Greek for Jesus the anointed or His anointed ones.) This is the day of the anointing!!!! This is the Chruch.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
Who is HE? That is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit came to reprove the Word of sin. It is the Holy Spirit that is holding back the iniquity on the Earth. Once the reprover of sin is taken out of the way, Sin will have full recourse on the planet.
The Holy Spirit is in the WAY of that now, and the AntiChrist can not operate with the Holy Spirit still in the Way. The Church must be removed.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
The Anointed Church can not be in the Way. That is why it is called the Day of Christ and our gathering together unto him.
We Escape!!! several scriptures make that clear, Now where do we Escape to? We stand with the Lord. Jesus said it, that at escape we are with him. We see it here again.
This Order of events Make a lot more sense when we start to put together Time Lines................. The No Rapture theory, leaves way to many questions.
Those that do not believe in Rapture have something in Common. No understand or knowledge of the Awesome Power of the Holy Spirit. Devils can not stand in that Power of anointing and function.
I had a devil Possessed man just walk in a room (After I cast one out of a person) and just scream at me. You can't cast me out, you can't cast me out. He then ran away. It was not me, but the Anointing on me. We can not be here during tribulation because we there are those of us that would preach and operate under the Power of the Anointing of God. No devil would make it, and with the Holy Spirit on earth operating that way, sin would not run it's course................Impossible.......
For those who believe in no rapture...... Ask God to fill you with the Power of the Holy Spirit. Speak in tongues, and you will better understand what I am talking about.
Jesus Is Lord.
Rev 12:17
