The Rapture Lie

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Christina

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YOUR WRONGTHE SEALING IS BEFORE THE TRIBULATION AND ITS ON ALL WORTHY OF BEING PROTECTED ONLY QUESTION IS THAT YOU BECAUSE ITS THE ONLY PROTECTION YOU WILL EVER GET SO YOU BEST BETTER BE SURE BECAUSE YOUR VERY SOUL DEPENDS ON IT
SO SUIT YOURSELF
YOU BETTER GO REREAD EXODUS BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN WHAT WAS WILL BE HOW DID GOD PROTECT THE HEBREWS FROM THE ANGEL OF DEATH ...YOU FIGURE IT OUT.
 
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6stringedsignseeker

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YOUR WRONGTHE SEALING IS BEFORE THE TRIBULATION AND ITS ON ALL WORTHY OF BEING PROTECTED ONLY QUESTION IS THAT YOU BECAUSE ITS THE ONLY PROTECTION YOU WILL EVER GET SO YOU BEST BETTER BE SURE BECAUSE YOUR VERY SOUL DEPENDS ON IT
SO SUIT YOURSELF
YOU BETTER GO REREAD EXODUS BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN WHAT WAS WILL BE HOW DID GOD PROTECT THE HEBREWS FROM THE ANGEL OF DEATH ...YOU FIGURE IT OUT.
I AM sure! I KNOW who my Lord and Savior is. No need to question my salvation, I'm not and WILL not question yours. Actually those that are sealed by God are the 144,000 Jews during the first three years of the tribulation. Not gentile christian believers, but converted christian Jews.... don't believe me? Well here's the whole section without taking anything out of context. I ask that you please read because you're wrong in your assumption that all christians are going to have this seal.


Revelation 7:1-8 
144,000 Sealed 


1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3"Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
   from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
   from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
   from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
   from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
   from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
   from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
   from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
   from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.


As you see it clearly states 144,000 from the tribes of Israel.... in fact it's 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes, numbering 144,000 total.




Now back to the question again. yes God did protect the Hebrews from the angel of death. they covered thier doors with lambs blood so they wouldn't lose their first born sons. And the reason I asked about that, and Noah and his family, and Lott and his family is because you said it's against Gods nature to save only the few, yet that's exactly how things worked out with the flood, and Sodom and Gamorrah and in the case with the angel of death at the passover.
 

HammerStone

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If the Church is absent on earth , it must be somewhere else.

Or the reader lacks the knowledge to know where the church is at because he/she does not read.

Everyone please notice I have not quoted scripture . A lot of people in a weak position resort to quoting scripture to buttress their position. But often what they do not realize is that the scripture (in the bible) is usually addressing a completely different subject than the one the poster is trying to reinforce.

I'm sorry, but that comment is a joke, literally; that's the worst advice I've heard yet. Anyone (scholars, critics, etc.) quotes Scripture. Heck even Satan quotes it, so what does that tell you?

Wake up, folks!
 

Brother Mike

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HammerStone:

Or the reader lacks the knowledge to know where the church is at because he/she does not read.


I'm sorry, but that comment is a joke, literally; that's the worst advice I've heard yet. Anyone (scholars, critics, etc.) quotes Scripture. Heck even Satan quotes it, so what does that tell you?

Wake up, folks!

I don't want to call the Kettle black Brother. I play around way more than what I should, and have been messing with Christina because she gets so bent out of shape. So, I am not judging here. I never take anything personal. I have been thrown out of 2 churches, and realized if Jesus is no longer fun, and full of Joy, I am missing part of what he has done for us. Though I am not sure He had in mind picking back at someone that gets aggravated easy......

My concern is that reading lots of you post that you do not agree with the poster, I see a whole different level of spiritual growth in you. Very impressive for your age, what you have, only God could have just speed up the revelation clock for you.

However, concerning this rapture stuff, I see a whole different spirit coming from you, and it bothers me.

If we all agree we are protected, then why this change in demeanor?

God bless Brother. As you know!!!

Jesus Is Lord.
 
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HammerStone

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However, concerning this rapture stuff, I see a whole different spirit coming from you, and it bothers me.

I think the same could be said for others here including yourself. Not you in particular in this one aspect, but there are abundant examples of where the subject is brought up time and again even in unrelated threads. Then there are other examples where the typical 'gang" shows up on the subject or the insults launch. For others it might be their version of humor for someone else who thinks it a serious subject. Sure it ends up on both sides, but let's face it that a good percentage of rapture folks like to push that button and know perfectly well what is going down. I run this site; I get the emails, the curses, and the sarcasm that you folks never see. An example of someone who doesn't do that would be Martin. We disagree vehemently and get a little sharp, but Martin doesn't jump on the shoutbox or off-topic threads to launch a discussion about it. I don't send PMs to Martin telling him he's wrong, etc. We might all be passionate about it; I for one am because I believe there will be a lot of deception as the Bible warns and that folks who might otherwise be good Christian men and women will be fooled. However, there is a real tendency to call the kettle black. I know I come on strong on the subject and I don't apologize for it, but this is what needs to be done to get people searching.

I guess what gets me about a lot of this current muck is that we can all sit around and talk about victories and healings, but they mean nothing if we don't know what's going to happen. The Bible spends more time on the latter days than it does on physical healing, for example. I've got good friends whom I love and believe in the rapture, but I know they know the Scriptures.

If you want to look at the true scholars - Paul, Peter, James, etc. they did quote Scripture - most notably the Old Testament but there were examples from the New. My single largest issue is that for whatever reason, this subject IS neglected for a full in depth study. People like to write books - both nonfiction and fiction on the subject and like to lay out a nice-sounding plan or verse here and there, but you just have to listen to this "scholar" (or group) or this "spirit" to really get it right.
 

Brother Mike

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Ok, I see where your coming from..................

I have never complained to you about anyone also..........It is nothing personal to me. It's sad others are not as mature to go crying to you.

I believe Healing is very important, and victory over current circumstances. That is not to say the end time stuff is not. Jesus whole ministery evolved around delievering from all kinds of issues.

Is the Rapture/ No Rapture neglected?

There are lots of web sites dedicated to end time stuff. Rapture ready is one I ran into the other day. I believe the subject is talked about a whole lot. Now if we agree with each other is another thing, but it is out on the table.

Pushing Buttons: I am guilty, I saw Christina post (I guess your study) So I responded to her, not your study. I know people that do not believe in Rapture get extremely upset with "The fly away" doctrine. You see the same thing on other forums if someone believes in rapture. Those folks get stired up. I already know they are not going to change their mind on anything.

I see your point Hammerstone. I know you have a certain vision for this forum, but you have to make a few choices. I very seldom see anyone really learning. Everyone has their own opinion of what you just said, and add's to it for you, or they say it's wrong.

It's not like Church where your the one doing the preaching and everyone is hanging on to every word you speak. It's not your people.

One option is to pick those you trust in teaching, Moderate each thread for those that counter the teaching. Only allow response or questions, and add a feedback to for people to post questions. Otherwise it's going to stay a mix of everything with no focus.

Be blessed

Jesus Is Lord.
 

6stringedsignseeker

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Being an admin on another site, we don't push any single doctrine or belief, in fact many of us believe different things and for the most part everyone gets along. We do like to debate, and every once in a while the debate might get a bit heated, however we do not tolerate people who simply want to make trouble, and attack each other. We will warn someone a number of times and if the abuse or the attacks does not stop we push a little button that makes you go bye bye. One of the things we've learned at that site is to respect each others differences and, as we like to say, "agree to disagree." When posting or reading on an online forum, sometimes it can be difficult to read into the true emotions of the poster. We are seeing words, not hearing them, and that can make a HUGE difference in the readers interpretation. Even when making a jest, a simple little   ;) will help to keep someone from becoming offended. Most forums have smileys and emoticons, and they are a very useful tool in helping to show emotions in your posts.

Example 1: Have you lost your mind?

Example 2: Have you lost your mind?   :p   ;)

They make a big difference to the reader.

It's not the differences in peoples beliefs that cause the most strife on an online forum, it's the way posts are interpreted and in some cases simply some bad eggs.

You really don't want certain rules about what beliefs can and can't be posted, it discourages posting in many cases and can make the boards boring. A little bit of debate is healthy as long as everyone can simply "agree to disagree" and not be offended if someone thinks differently. As long as the posts are clean, and non-offensive, the boards will normally moderate themselves.   ;)




*edit* thinking about that, I could probably use more smileys myself lol. 
 
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jiggyfly

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Being an admin on another site, we don't push any single doctrine or belief, in fact many of us believe different things and for the most part everyone gets along. We do like to debate, and every once in a while the debate might get a bit heated, however we do not tolerate people who simply want to make trouble, and attack each other. We will warn someone a number of times and if the abuse or the attacks does not stop we push a little button that makes you go bye bye. One of the things we've learned at that site is to respect each others differences and, as we like to say, "agree to disagree." When posting or reading on an online forum, sometimes it can be difficult to read into the true emotions of the poster. We are seeing words, not hearing them, and that can make a HUGE difference in the readers interpretation. Even when making a jest, a simple little ;) will help to keep someone from becoming offended. Most forums have smileys and emoticons, and they are a very useful tool in helping to show emotions in your posts.

Example 1: Have you lost your mind?

Example 2: Have you lost your mind? :p ;)

They make a big difference to the reader.

It's not the differences in peoples beliefs that cause the most strife on an online forum, it's the way posts are interpreted and in some cases simply some bad eggs.

You really don't want certain rules about what beliefs can and can't be posted, it discourages posting in many cases and can make the boards boring. A little bit of debate is healthy as long as everyone can simply "agree to disagree" and not be offended if someone thinks differently. As long as the posts are clean, and non-offensive, the boards will normally moderate themselves. ;)




*edit* thinking about that, I could probably use more smileys myself lol.

Excellent post 6Sting, I totally agree.
smile.gif
 

Martin W.

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Hammerstone

I will try again to make my point:

If a person does believes in the rapture and then selects only the verses he can find to support his position .... that is not systematic theology.

Same thing if a person does not believe in the rapture and then selects only the verses he can find to support his position ... that is also not systematic theology.

So back to what I said ...... quoting endless scripture to buttress one's position does not necessarily make it correct. An exhaustive study of all related scripture (for or against) is required.

Once that is complete , the honest answer is that nobody can definitively claim to know the timing of the translation of living Christians. Scripture does not provide enough information for us to do that.

I hope I have made my point and if you notice I did not have to quote endless scripture to do so. That was also my point.
 

Martin W.

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A study of pre-tribulation rapture will leave a lot of unanswered questions and the (theory) will encounter some problems along the way.

A study of mid-tribulation rapture encounters even more problems.

A study of post-tribulation rapture comes up against the most roadblocks.

None of the three positions can be proven with our limited information.


A slightly off topic consideration could include the following :

.... did God leave Lot in the city until it was nearly destroyed or did he remove him ahead of time?

.... Did God leave Noah on earth until nearly everything was submerged or did he have him in the Ark before the rain even started?

These examples , and many others show that God has a history of removing his people before he pounds the enemy. Because the Great Tribulation is upon the whole earth we must allow the possibility that the Christian is absent (not here for the trib). Maybe God has a special oasis for Christians during that time , but if he plans to translate them sometime anyway, why not before the wrath. It would make more sense than keeping them here during the wrath and then translate them a split second before the end (of the tribulation).

One of the difficulties we encounter is that The Tribulation has its focus on the unbelieving world , including unbelieving Israel. The focus is no longer on the Church. One of the byproducts of the tribulation is God's exposure of Israel to unbelievable distress. It becomes so bad they cry out for the Messiah. Before all is lost , the Messiah does indeed come. (Jesus Christ.)

We living Christians (the Church) do not require such prompting. We already know The Messiah. We do not require the distress of the great tribulation to convert us. We are already converted. The great tribulation is for the unbelievers , not us.


In spite of that, I am also prepared to accept we may very well be exposed to some, or all of the tribulation. But I certainly will not bash anyone who holds the view of a pre-trib rapture. I would certainly not call them liars as some are prone to do.

To label something as a lie, first requires an establishment of the truth. We are not given enough information to conclusively determine the truth on this subject. A "best guess" is the most we can hope to accomplish..
 

Christina

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Martain, With all due respect
whether we agree or not on Rapture your reasoning is flawed
God said he foretold us all things and he did

The problem is you can not address the subject with out a preconceived notion, that a pre,mid or post rapture is written ...
you are trying to prove which may be correct ....yet find they all have problems, so have concluded we are not told.
You have missed the forest through the trees ...
What if there is none written ... would not this change your conclusion?

The truth about Rapture reguardless of what one's belief is There are facts that must be taken into account.
It is and has always been called by Theolgians a theroy ..it is implied only.
A theroy by defination can not be proved. ...
Its my veiw God does not deal in therories and implications,he is not the author of confusion.

The rapture was not taught for 2000 years because it can only be implied if one first hears the doctrine then tries to find the implicating verse's ... It mainly an American Doctrine for this reason.
This is not how we are told to study scripture ! We do not find a doctrine then go about finding verse's to imply it we study scripture to make doctrine ..precept upon precept.

We are most certainly told when our translation/change takes place reguardless of ones belief we are told exactly when it happens

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
sleep is dead we shall not all die

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

at the last trump the translation occurs whaty is the last trump the 7th and last at Christs return

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Perhaps you can not allow your self to see this plain statement because your trying to fit it into a preconceived idea so you think other verse say differnt ...They do not... there is no contradiction to this statement this is exactly when we are changed.

Its only your own limits upon yourself to prove an idea that you have come to believe the hinders your understanding of what said.

until you approach this subject honestly without any preconceived notion to prove or disprove true or not true you will be hindered in your effort.
 
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Brother Mike

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Martin:

Your reading my mind??? I am also pondering this. This thread was the start of my first -rep because someone's feelings got hurt.

You make a good point about Lot and Noah. I was just reading those. I also was looking at the Tribulation focused on Israel. I don't see the word Church or any of the same language about Christians I see in the other Gospels. I won't deny that it is missing. I hope others look at it also.

Did the Rain start before or after Noah got in the boat. How bout lot. Both escaped, Noah probley got wet. Both saw what was coming.

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

This was written to the Church, Us. I think it is pretty clear that as in Noah's case, it will start to rain. We have wars and rumors of wars. I think we may be getting hung up on the exact official day the Tribulation starts. Could be some smart person in the Government will be able to mark it on the calendar for us. I don't think it's going to be apparent that everyone will know what day it started. Bad and perilous things will be taking place though. We will be here.

(More) Pre Tribulation Proof...... or at least soon after entering into the offical day the tribulation starts.


1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Here we see the resurrection. Some get hung up on the Word descend from heaven, but to get to the clouds you have to descend from where The Lord sits. Just a play on words. We do see clearly the resurrection though.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


Here we see again, the resurrection. Some try to compare trumpets with Rev, which is a good thing, but that is just the assumption that all trumpets in the bible must match.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Ooops......... here we see dead come back also, but at the end. However the dead mentioned by Paul where in Christ. These dead were just brought up, and nothing about a resurrection.

Now when did this event occur? The resurrection that Paul spoke of............. if you keep reading 1 Cor 15, Paul makes a amazing statement.

1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Well, a Victory is the final of something, and it's through Jesus Christ. (The Church) However that could mean after the Tribulation.

When do we get that Victory?


Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


At that time of trouble, the people shall be delivered look at verse two, we also see the resurrection, We also see Michael the archangel, same as we see in 1 th 4:16 Danial is clear when this will take place. At the time when trouble starts.......... We are delivered.

Here we see the Angels put in the sickle to gather the end time harvest. Notice the condition of the Earth.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The sound of the trumpet follows the Coming of the Lord. I think people try to compare trumpets with events in Rev, and it gets messed up, if a trumpet is blown when the angels come with the lord.

Jesus Makes it clear that this event occurs after the Tribulation period................ He describes another event, and tell us this is Before disaster happens.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

This He describes different.......... One after the Tribulation is to gather his elect. The second people are compared to a servant who served him. The Church. He also gave us the description of Noah.

There is a Pre Tribulation or soon after Tribulation starts Rapture or catching away if you like.

Jesus Is Lord.
 

jiggyfly

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Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things


Do you think it is all things concerning the abomination of desolation, all things in general or all things period?

you do not have to agree with me jiggfly
but do not try to out scripture me I teach it everyday

Really how long have you been studying the scriptures Christina?
 

6stringedsignseeker

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Christina you say you teach scripture every day, but how did you miss the whole point of those who are sealed during the tribulation? You seem to think all christians are going to receive this seal yet Revelation 7 is very clear who is going to receive the seal of God's protection. To say all christians on earth during the trib are going to receive this seal, is taking it way out context. If you want to review this just scroll back up to the very top of this page. You can't take scripture in pieces to prove a point, you have to take what is written before and after. 
 

Brother Mike

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That is what we deal with 6string......... I agree with you.

I believe I proved for once that there is a pre-Tribulation Rapture................. I was counting things and look and looking. I heard the Holy Spirit.........Stop counting!!! I was trying to figure out those trumpets........... I was under the thought that if a trumpet sounded from heaven it only could be connected to Rev............. That is like reading the doorbell rings on Tue, and assuming that is the only time the doorbell can ring.

I can see how you can mess things up, trying to get way to analytical.

What helped me is that in Matt 24 I saw two different events that Jesus came. Jesus himself described both of them. I never saw it that way before. We are to compare scripture line upon line. Precept (like things) upon precept. I had to find the taking of the saints in Thess and find a connector........... I found one, the resurrection. Everything now makes sense and in place. My post is above all the haggling with Christina.

Jesus Is Lord.
 

Christina

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Do you think it is all things concerning the abomination of desolation, all things in general or all things period?



Really how long have you been studying the scriptures Christina?

More years than you been alive
Ive never yet not found an answer to a question it may take time ans study but its all there

Christina you say you teach scripture every day, but how did you miss the whole point of those who are sealed during the tribulation? You seem to think all christians are going to receive this seal yet Revelation 7 is very clear who is going to receive the seal of God's protection. To say all christians on earth during the trib are going to receive this seal, is taking it way out context. If you want to review this just scroll back up to the very top of this page. You can't take scripture in pieces to prove a point, you have to take what is written before and after. 
really want back your words with scripture put your money where your mouth is where does it say that ?

And by the way that isnt what I think at all far from it.... I think the majority will follow A.C. ... but you are so busy talking you do not listen. did you ever bother to ask me ?
I asked and said who thought they were worthy
 

6stringedsignseeker

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[quote ="Christina"]really want back your words with scripture put your money where your mouth is where does it say that ?[/quote] I gave you chapter and verse Christina.....

Ok here it is again....

Revelation 7:1-8
144,000 Sealed


1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3"Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
   from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
   from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
   from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
   from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
   from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
   from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
   from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
   from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

 and yes I did ask you to explain, but you ignored those posts.
 

Christina

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I gave you chapter and verse Christina.....

Ok here it is again....

Revelation 7:1-8
144,000 Sealed


1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3"Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
   from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
   from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
   from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
   from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
   from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
   from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
   from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
   from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

 and yes I did ask you to explain, but you ignored those posts.
LOL this is before the tribulation not during it This chapter is two visions one before the tribulation begins and one after its over
Did you notice the Stop wait untill the 144,000 are sealed. the tribulation hasnt even started yet thats the point
the rest of the chapter is a second vision after the tribulation
 
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