The Rapture Lie

[ScottA]

And...around you go again!



One does not "reconcile" verses by ignoring them, or by repeating your point again in the hope that the verses will go away.



Ok, let's have a little look back over our conversation: in post #348 I pointed out that 1 Cor 15:23 did NOT hold the key to a massive new doctrine on time distortion. It read very simply: "This is the order of things: Christ first, THEN at his coming, those who belong to him". Simple.

You replied in #351 that I was, in fact, taking away from scripture (how, I'm not sure, you didn't say), and then you dropped your "every man in his own order" snippet again, like it was supposed to make your point for you.

However, repeating part of a verse that, when read in full, makes simple and wonderful sense...and that sense is NOT your point, you are fighting a loosing battle. BUT, you solider on!

You say that "my understanding of "Christ at his coming" is not evident."

My reply in #354: I remind you...again, that attempting to pull a whole doctrine out of an itty-bitty verse is folly. Especially when the verse naturally reads as a who, what, when. It tells us "heres the order: Christ first, then at his coming, the rest of us". Simple.

Can you refute that? No...no you can't, so you ignore and go on posting your snippets.

As in post #355, when you repeat your "every man" thing again. And try and tell me that if Christ is with me now, he doesn't need to come back.

So in post #356 I attempt to show you, in depth, with actual bible verses, rather than just hootspa, that the greek and English reading of 1 Cor 15:23 cannot be other than what if very simple is, and that you are totally reading more into it and assuming wildly.

In #359 you seem to have nothing to say to that. In fact, you say it was "all good", until I apparently mentioned Christ's return. Unable, or unwilling to comment on the topic at hand, you then tell me that my understanding is faulty, because *insert another snippet taken out of context*

#361 sees me commenting on your lack of commenting on my point in #356, my assumption is that you have, at last seen reason, or at least been forced to admit logic resides on my side. I then go on to comment on your "bible snippet" and how you are trying to prove your point about Christ's return with it. I used many scriptures (John 14:20–26, Philippians 3:20, Hebrews 9:28, Acts 1:11, 1 John 3:2, 1 John 2:28, Revelation 1:7, 1 Thessalonians 4:16–18, 1 Corinthians 15:23–26, 1 Corinthians 15:53–55,
to discuss how the bible talks about 1: Christ's presence with us now, and 2: his promised physical return. Did you, as you claimed you've done, address ANY of those verses?

Your reply #363: You tell me you most certainly didn't agree with any of the greek or English grammer points I made in #356 (although, one can't help noticing that you still don't say why, or make any convincing arguements against it. You avoid it, as usual, by just saying "you're wrong). You then go on to tell me I have not "reconciled" *insert out of context snippet again*, and that is why I have a "problem". You then tell me that I should do said "reconciling", or else you can "pick away" at my arguements as you have been (which I find slightly hilarious, because you haven't seriously address a single one yet).

The next three posts #364, #365 & #367 you disagree with things I've said, but again, show nothing but OPINION for your views. You don't discuss the bible verses I put forward, you don't put forward any yourself, and you don't try and give in depth discussions on the snippets you are trying to hang your whole doctrine on.



And goodness...it just goes on.
But my point is quite clear. You "say" you have reconciled all bible verses given. You have not. Clearly. Repeatedly. You respond to bible verses and points from scripture with little more than "your say so", which might be high in your own opinion, but mean little in the face of God's word.
I don't mind discussing scripture. I don't mind discussing doctrine. But if we're just talking made up doctrines based only upon the ideas of the dude who concoced them and his insistence that those four words HAVE to mean that, while clearly they don't say it, with zero backing up from other scripture...then it just beggars belief.
So...I suppose you can be a little outraged at me if you like, and tell me to be 'serious' about the conversation, and to stop accusing you of things I'm doing myself. But to be perfectly honest, I think if we look back over the conversation, as I have, I think we'll see I've done my level best to reason with you from scripture, and you've just ignored it, dodged and hedged.

No, "it" doesn't go on - you go on. I was concise, but not myself, that's not how this works, and your lengthy attempts at reasoning what you think is correct likewise failed the lawyers and scribes. You say "snippets", well, I will say pearls. And so I leave you to it as one who will not hear.

 

[Naomi25]

"Mass event", can be misleading, if two are not on the same page.

Because there ARE, BOTH...

"Individual events"
And
"Mass events".

This is true, in that, until Christ comes, we individually die. When he comes, those who are alive will be gathered to him in a "mass event". The verse in question was talking about the "mass event". The time of Christ's return, where those alive would be gathered to him, and also, those who had 'fallen asleep' in him, would also receive their new, imperishable bodies.

 

[Naomi25]

All Scripture is TRUE, regardless of who is Quoting Scripture.

Thus you should not find a person TRYING to Disprove your quoted Scripture with another quoted Scripture.

Again...All Scripture is True, regardless of who is Quoting the Scripture.

The Disagreement between two people is when two people have determine "DIFFERENT" Scripture "APPLY" to them.

For Example, I am Converted Wholly IN Christ, body, soul, spirit.

I have ZERO expectation to be On earth when the Tribulation Begins...

Because ... The Seven Year Tribulation is for Causing False Hope, Causing Division, Causing Separation, Causing Chaos, Causing Gods Revenge to be realized.

Men already Converted, have already become Divided and Separated, and with the Lord, IN the clouds, WHILE...His holy angelic servants, His Virgin Servants from the 12 Tribes of Israel....are come to the Earth TO Finish the Division of men, (between those desiring to BE With the Lord, FROM those desiring to remain without the Lord). As their 'SERVICE' is accomplished. The Lord Himself shall, Separate, BY TAKING and REDEEMING, those men WHICH, were Divided, UNTO TO HIM, WITH Him.

"IF" a man "IS" In Christ....The Lord Himself SHALL ... Redeem such man.

"IF" a man "DOES" or "DOES NOT KNOW WHEN"....it makes no difference if the man KNOWS WHEN, IT SHALL HAPPEN.

God Bless,
Taken

Scripture is true, absolutely. But man does not always interpret it correctly. Why? Man is fallible. That is why it is SO important to consider the context of a verse. To consider it as whole, consider it in it's passage. Consider it against other passages that speak of the same topic. We study, we consider and we pray. And when we come across someone who pulls tiny bits of scripture out and seemingly use them in ways that they were not intended; read them in ways that don't seem natural, we must say something. It is natural, and honest, I think to ask them to back their idea up with other scripture. Can they do it? If they have a truly well thought out, biblical doctrine, then at the very least, they can discuss the other verses that apply to it. It may lead to differences in opinions around a doctrine (hence Pre-trib to Post-trib, for example), but at least we can stand back and go, "yeah, they've got good, biblical basis for that view, and while I don't agree, I can see it's biblical"
When a person cannot do that. When they cannot comment on verses you laid out, or lay out their own, in backing of their idea. When they cannot even use whole verses to prove their point, or put those verses in context...then we know we have a very, very big problem, and someone is attempting to make scripture into a wax nose.

 

[Naomi25]

No, "it" doesn't go on - you go on. I was concise, but not myself, that's not how this works, and your lengthy attempts at reasoning what you think is correct likewise failed the lawyers and scribes. You say "snippets", well, I will say pearls. And so I leave you to it as one who will not hear.

You said you had "reconciled" all things, and I had not. My "lengthy" reply was just attempting to show 2 things: 1: You had not, in point of fact answered in any way, any of the verses or points I'd made; and 2) I had addressed several of your points with scripture and while I asked you you to do the same, repeatedly, you did not.

So, say what you wish about me, think what you wish about me, but I think our past conversation holds up my points fairly well.
Good day.

 

[Taken]

Scripture is true, absolutely. But man does not always interpret it correctly. Why? Man is fallible.

Agree, man is fallible.

Scripture is a Beginning, Intended to give all men Knowledge.

It is as men, (who choose), to hear and read and continue doing so; that they are being enlightened.

Enlightenment, IS the man having the Word in his mind. It's there; the man can't "un-hear" the Word.

The man (who) continues hearing, reading, studying, begins receiving measures of Faith from God, in his Heart, which prepares the man, to Believe what he is hearing.

Notice, I have not YET mentioned...?
1) Understanding of the Knowledge
2) The man being saved or born again.

That is because, the man is simply being Prepared, and NOT Yet "divided" from other men.

In Scripture, OTHER men, who noticed, men FOLLOWING after the teachings of Jesus...
Such OTHER men, began calling the men FOLLOWING after Jesus' teaching;
Christians, which was the original meaning of the word Christian; "a Follower".

A "Follower", can keep following, or stop following, at any time. And why there are men who "claim, they use to be a Christian",
But are no more.
They did follow, then stopped, AND were able to do so, BECAUSE they were not saved, born again, or Divided and belonging to Christ.

Scripture calls this, Fallen from Faith.
They no longer receive "enlightenment".
They no longer receive "measures of faith".
They are not "saved".
They have opportunity to return, but no one forces them to do so.

"Division" being the Point.
Division has always been the Point, from the beginning. Dividing who is With God, from those Without God.

In the OT, men were divided, and the men WITH God, were given the Task, to teach other men. To some degree that was successful; To a large degree that Failed.
Why? Because Belief in God is based ON
Faith.
FAITH is based on believing WITHOUT SEEING.
OT men had the WORD to spread...
And did not HAVE "something" VISIBLE to SHOW other men, "so they also would believe".
God called them "stiffnecked".
And God promised them, they WOULD SEE,
As He Would, send the people a MESSIAH.

Moving forward;
Jesus came out from God in heaven, in the likeness AS a man, FOR MEN TO SEE, and hear.

It was HOW Jesus came to earth, and his appearence, and commonality, THAT was NOT what people expected, that were in waiting for the MESSIAH.

Yet Some Jews, began to trust to Believe His Works, then Believed His Word;
AND?....Some Stayed in Belief, Continued following....
AND?....Because Saved and Born Again.
AND?....Other Jews? Found it TOO HARD, because of the backlash, from JEWISH leaders, and society.
AND?....They "chose" to remain Under the Law (of the Jews).

AND? Many Gentiles, (not Under the Jewish laws), Became in AWE of Jesus' Works, and in AWE of His Words, and began following His teachings, and adopted calling themselves;
Christians.

AND? Were they Divided? Saved and Born again?

No, not FOR FOLLOWING. (Just like today).
Any man becomes, DIVIDED, "when" that man; Becomes Converted "IN" Christ....
Ie Forgiven and Saved and Born Again.

The beauty of JESUS coming to Earth, as our EXAMPLE, is He could BE SEEN, "DOING", what God Himself "asks of natural men" TO DO.

And BECAUSE Jesus WAS SENT;
The forgiveness, saving, born again, keeping, etc....the Conversion; IS BY and THROUGH Christ the Lord Jesus.

Thus WHY, a Conversion, comes "AFTER" a man Believes in BOTH...God and Jesus.

And WHY the Conversion, ONLY applies, to those men, WHO DO Believe and Submit TO, both GOD and Jesus.

^ THEY ARE the Converted....
And ARE NOW DIVIDED.
^ THEY ARE those "with" God and Christ and His Holy Spirit.
^ THEY ARE NOW..."entitled" to receive the UNDERSTANDING of Scripture....(according to Gods Understanding).

Being "entitled" to something, means NOTHING, "IF" one does not FOLLOW the WAY, "TO" receive the "entitlement".

ASK, and you shall receive.
Hear, Read, Study the Scriptures to;
"TO SHOW YOURSELF APPROVED"

APPROVED of WHAT, and APPROVED BY WHOM? Thee Lord God.

It is to say, when a man puts forth the effort, hearing, reading, studying any particular Scripture(s)...the man IS "showing God" his genuine INTEREST....which gains Gods APPROVAL. And FOR GOD having Approved the man....God GIVES the MAN:
His Understanding of Scriptures, ie His Word, His Understanding of His Word.

Point being: We hear, and read to learn HOW TO become prepared to BECOME Converted.

Point being: We continue hearing, reading AND studying, TO BECOME APPROVED, SO THAT GOD WILL GIVE us HIS UNDERSTANDING of HIS WORD.

Point being; We DO NOT STUDY, so our MIND can "interpret" the Scriptures. (Even though so many are taught, that is Gods Way, IT ISN'T).

Continued...

 

[Taken]

Naomi25 ~ continued

And when we come across someone who pulls tiny bits of scripture out and seemingly use them in ways that they were not intended;

That is "subjective".

ONE single verse in Scripture: For Example;
Part of the verse MAY apply to a man:
NOT Converted,
While Part of the verse MAY ALSO apply to a man: Who IS Converted.

All Scripture IS TRUE...Yet ALL Scripture does not APPLY to ALL men.

Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth...
Means:
To Apply a Scripture to oneself, that DOES APPLY, and DO NOT Apply a Scripture to oneself, that DOES NOT APPLY.

The END of "this" World as we know it is coming.

Men WHO ARE (Converted IN Christ...Believe IN BOTH God and Christ and Holy Spirit....
That "THEY" ARE; THEE ONE;
Lord God Almighty.

^ Regardless of WHAT Nation they live in, or under what government they are, or what language they speak, or what they look like, or what their religion is called, or what they eat, or what they wear.....

THEY ARE ALREADY "DIVIDED" from the Rest of the WORLD.

THEY ARE "NOT" "subject to", Gods Wrath.

1 Thes 5:9 (a)
For God hath not appointed us to wrath,
(Applies to me BECAUSE I have obtained Salvation by my Lord Jesus Christ.)

1 Thes 5:9 (b)
but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
(Does not Apply to me BECAUSE I have ALREADY obtained Salvation by my Lord Jesus Christ).

Gods Wrath....and the Wrath of the Lamb...

Begins at the Beginning of Gods Seven Year Tribulation.

I have already Obtained the Lords Salvation, (and so have others), and SHALL NOT BE ON THE EARTH, when the Lord Gods, WRATH, comes UPON the EARTH.
I am not Appointed to suffer the Wrath of God...NOR suffer the VENGENCE of God.

The Tribulation of God...IS Specifically...for men TO SUFFER, Gods Wrath and Gods Vengence....FOR having Rejected...God and those KNOWING of Christ...for also having Rejected Him.

Rev 6 [16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

read them in ways that don't seem natural, we must say something. It is natural, and honest, I think to ask them to back their idea up with other scripture. Can they do it? If they have a truly well thought out, biblical doctrine, then at the very least, they can discuss the other verses that apply to it. It may lead to differences in opinions around a doctrine (hence Pre-trib to Post-trib, for example), but at least we can stand back and go, "yeah, they've got good, biblical basis for that view, and while I don't agree, I can see it's biblical"
When a person cannot do that. When they cannot comment on verses you laid out, or lay out their own, in backing of their idea. When they cannot even use whole verses to prove their point, or put those verses in context...then we know we have a very, very big problem, and someone is attempting to make scripture into a wax nose.

To that I say...not everyone is AT the same point in their lives. What applies to one, may not apply to another. And even when the SAME Applies; the discussion doesn't focus on WHY two do not have the SAME understanding.

Some say Flat out....they get their understanding from: preachers, their parents, commentaries, their minds figuring....AND?
Why would I trust they are "approved"?
That is not Scriptural.

Some skim a verse....hear it, read it....but do not study it. Why would I trust they are "approved"?
That is not Scriptural.

Some claim flat out...they Believe "some" of the Scriptures, but not "ALL". Why would I trust they are "approved"?
That is not Scriptural.

Some claim FOR ME...what Scriptures "THEY" have decided APPLY to me. Why would I trust they are the "authority", to know my heart?
To know what I read and study and subject myself To? I don't.

If a man does not believe the Lord is Dividing men every day.....and those who ARE Divided SHALL BE SEPARATED, BEFORE the Tribulation...they are entitled to believe...
They will remain on the Earth and subject to experiencing His Wrath with Unbelievers....and perhaps remain for the Entire Seven Years....and also experience His Vengence.....WHY? IDK, they do not say.

The Lord ASCENDED INTO THE Clouds, and shall Return to the Clouds and then to Earth.

During the Tribulation IS the Lord ON the Earth? Has He Came to the Earth, Retruned to the Earth. No, however He has Descended From Heaven.

During the tribulation ARE the masses, WHO were Converted ON the Earth? No.

Shall there BE MORE during the Tribulation, WHO come to Belief IN GOD and Christ Jesus? Yes.

Remember the Jews? Many of Gods called people, who Believe IN GOD....but not that Jesus is their Christ Messiah? Early on during the Tribulation, Many, who have remained under the Law, shall come to believe in Jesus, and they also Saved. Their MASS departure from the Earth, is During the Tribulation.

And what about ANY others who choose to believe and submit to Conversion, DURING the Tribulation? They also shall be saved.

And the rest of the people who Rejcect God, Reject Christ, are marked unto Satan? Increased Wrath and Vengence From God Shall befall them, and they killed.

Is it, Christ Jesus Himself, or Converted men wandering the Earth during the Tribulation Trying to LEAD men to Salvation? No.

It is the Lords 144,000 Sealed Virgin from the Tribes of Israel and the Lords Holy Angels who are the last to Spread the Word of God, during the Tribulation, and those who become Converted shall also have a MASS exit FROM OFF the Earth....BEFORE the Lord Himself Returns to the Earth.

Any points you disagree with, please quote them specifically, and I will address with Scripture, if you so require.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

The gross error that has happened in all of Christendom, is not thinking that revelations are from God and not according to the world as most view and translate every revelation.

While men lean on their own understanding not renewing their mind, God has revealed His mind which does not translate into worldly terms as men can imagine. Therefore, those who have not seen God and Christ "as He is" and now refuse it, will not see Him until the end, but will only see the world which they have chosen. Nonetheless, those who have an ear to hear and have seen Him as He is, have and do understand that all things are according to the kingdom and during this time will give that testimony and not that of the world.

Each to his own will.

An interesting thing about the Book of Revelations, IS WHERE John IS, WHEN the Tribulation Begins.

Rev 1 ~ a recap of WHO Christ Jesus IS; and WHO Authority is given to to Speak on behalf of God and Reveal Knowledge.

Rev 2 & 3 ~ Information given the Seven Churches (which extends to ALL Chruches ) OF favor and DISFAVOR of Gods thoughts about ALL Chruches.

Rev 4 ~ To John...
Commanded to COME "UP" hither...to Heaven.
Revealed John was "immediately" ...in the spriit, when he went "UP" hither....to Heaven.

Rev 4 ~ continues with what John (in the spriit) SEES in Heaven.

Rev 5 ~ Reveals the Beginning of the Tribulation....with the Opening of the "First Seal"....and "WHAT" is unleashed upon the Earth, when that "First Seal" is opened.

For those who do not KNOW John's Background...
He IS a particular man, WHO WAS, Forgiven, Saved, Born Again, and NOT ON EARTH in the beginning, or during the tribulation.

For those who read, and forget where John was Before the Tribulation began and During the Tribulation.....there is a Reminder in

Rev 10...
John was in the spirit.

The SAME spirit all other Converted men (Christs Church) men are IN before and during the Tribulation and the SAME place, John was...with God in Heaven....

NOT on Earth, experiencing Gods Tribulation.

John WAS Converted and "IN CHRIST", a believer IN God and IN Christ Jesus and the Power of the Holy Spirit of God. <--- Christs Church....

God Bless,
Marry Christmas,
Taken

 

[ScottA]

An interesting thing about the Book of Revelations, IS WHERE John IS, WHEN the Tribulation Begins.

Rev 1 ~ a recap of WHO Christ Jesus IS; and WHO Authority is given to to Speak on behalf of God and Reveal Knowledge.

Rev 2 & 3 ~ Information given the Seven Churches (which extends to ALL Chruches ) OF favor and DISFAVOR of Gods thoughts about ALL Chruches.

Rev 4 ~ To John...
Commanded to COME "UP" hither...to Heaven.
Revealed John was "immediately" ...in the spriit, when he went "UP" hither....to Heaven.

Rev 4 ~ continues with what John (in the spriit) SEES in Heaven.

Rev 5 ~ Reveals the Beginning of the Tribulation....with the Opening of the "First Seal"....and "WHAT" is unleashed upon the Earth, when that "First Seal" is opened.

For those who do not KNOW John's Background...
He IS a particular man, WHO WAS, Forgiven, Saved, Born Again, and NOT ON EARTH in the beginning, or during the tribulation.

For those who read, and forget where John was Before the Tribulation began and During the Tribulation.....there is a Reminder in

Rev 10...
John was in the spirit.

The SAME spirit all other Converted men (Christs Church) men are IN before and during the Tribulation and the SAME place, John was...with God in Heaven....

NOT on Earth, experiencing Gods Tribulation.

John WAS Converted and "IN CHRIST", a believer IN God and IN Christ Jesus and the Power of the Holy Spirit of God. <--- Christs Church....

God Bless,
Marry Christmas,
Taken

Just so long as we do not begin to believe that the kingdom of heaven is not "within you."

 

[Taken]

Just so long as we do not begin to believe that the kingdom of heaven is not "within you."

Of course, within the Converted. It is later His Kingdom shall be manifested on Earth.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[Naomi25]

To that I say...not everyone is AT the same point in their lives. What applies to one, may not apply to another. And even when the SAME Applies; the discussion doesn't focus on WHY two do not have the SAME understanding.

God Bless,
Taken

I agree with much of what you say, and with some, I don't have anything really for or against it. But I would ask about the paragraph above, I suppose, more in regards to trying to understand exactly what you mean.
We understand that when God inspired scripture to be written, that what he gave us had a purpose and truth behind it, yes? We cannot say that much of what is said by Christ and Paul, for example, can be interpreted, validly, by different people differently, because they are different people who experience things differently. No...one truth is meant by things Christ said, by things Paul said.
And as Christians, it is our task, no matter what stage we are at, to seek, to the best of our ability, out that truth and understand it. And as our walk with Christ matures, so to will that understanding.
But we cannot, I believe, sit back and say that "what is true for him, is not true for me, so his interpretation is valid based on that". No, we must use sound biblical reasoning to dig into each verse for the meaning God intended.
Without such measures, you have people going off the deep end. You have people like the Westboro Baptists thinking God calls them to extreme hate, or those who say that the bible excuses slavery. Or those who twist scripture now to say that homosexual relationships are acceptable in the eyes of God.
We must admit that God's word is absolute and unchangable (like he is!). And it is necessary, I believe, to faithfully build our doctrines based upon it. Which is very possible when we put together all the passages and verses that talk about such things and we carefully consider them. When we decide to take single verses out of context and build an idea or justification around them....I don't think that just speaks to immaturity of 'different life stage'...I think it speaks of twisting God's word out of context, which is unacceptable.

 

[farouk]

I agree with much of what you say, and with some, I don't have anything really for or against it. But I would ask about the paragraph above, I suppose, more in regards to trying to understand exactly what you mean.
We understand that when God inspired scripture to be written, that what he gave us had a purpose and truth behind it, yes? We cannot say that much of what is said by Christ and Paul, for example, can be interpreted, validly, by different people differently, because they are different people who experience things differently. No...one truth is meant by things Christ said, by things Paul said.
And as Christians, it is our task, no matter what stage we are at, to seek, to the best of our ability, out that truth and understand it. And as our walk with Christ matures, so to will that understanding.
But we cannot, I believe, sit back and say that "what is true for him, is not true for me, so his interpretation is valid based on that". No, we must use sound biblical reasoning to dig into each verse for the meaning God intended.
Without such measures, you have people going off the deep end. You have people like the Westboro Baptists thinking God calls them to extreme hate, or those who say that the bible excuses slavery. Or those who twist scripture now to say that homosexual relationships are acceptable in the eyes of God.
We must admit that God's word is absolute and unchangable (like he is!). And it is necessary, I believe, to faithfully build our doctrines based upon it. Which is very possible when we put together all the passages and verses that talk about such things and we carefully consider them. When we decide to take single verses out of context and build an idea or justification around them....I don't think that just speaks to immaturity of 'different life stage'...I think it speaks of twisting God's word out of context, which is unacceptable.

The Lord's Coming won't happen according to everyone's diverse ideas, will it?

 

[Naomi25]

The Lord's Coming won't happen according to everyone's diverse ideas, will it?

Nope, there can be only one! Won't it be fun to see who was right! Maybe no one was. Or maybe each system has elements that are correct! Maybe we need to try and smoosh them together!
Honestly, I don't care who is right. My prayer is he comes soon. But just knowing that he will come, one day, and that all he has promised...all that he won on the cross that day will finally be inaugurated...that is amazing!

 

[farouk]

Nope, there can be only one! Won't it be fun to see who was right! Maybe no one was. Or maybe each system has elements that are correct! Maybe we need to try and smoosh them together!
Honestly, I don't care who is right. My prayer is he comes soon. But just knowing that he will come, one day, and that all he has promised...all that he won on the cross that day will finally be inaugurated...that is amazing!

Revelation 22.20: 'Amen: come, Lord Jesus'.

 

[Taken]

The time of Christ's return, where those alive would be gathered to him, and also, those who had 'fallen asleep' in him, would also receive their new, imperishable bodies.

The Descent of Christ is Him leaving Heaven,
Where He DESCENDS To is the Clouds.

He second coming to Earth is from the Clouds, as The Son of man with Power...that ALL ON EARTH shall see Him.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I agree with much of what you say, and with some, I don't have anything really for or against it. But I would ask about the paragraph above, I suppose, more in regards to trying to understand exactly what you mean.
We understand that when God inspired scripture to be written, that what he gave us had a purpose and truth behind it, yes? We cannot say that much of what is said by Christ and Paul, for example, can be interpreted, validly, by different people differently, because they are different people who experience things differently. No...one truth is meant by things Christ said, by things Paul said.
And as Christians, it is our task, no matter what stage we are at, to seek, to the best of our ability, out that truth and understand it. And as our walk with Christ matures, so to will that understanding.
But we cannot, I believe, sit back and say that "what is true for him, is not true for me, so his interpretation is valid based on that". No, we must use sound biblical reasoning to dig into each verse for the meaning God intended.
Without such measures, you have people going off the deep end. You have people like the Westboro Baptists thinking God calls them to extreme hate, or those who say that the bible excuses slavery. Or those who twist scripture now to say that homosexual relationships are acceptable in the eyes of God.
We must admit that God's word is absolute and unchangable (like he is!). And it is necessary, I believe, to faithfully build our doctrines based upon it. Which is very possible when we put together all the passages and verses that talk about such things and we carefully consider them. When we decide to take single verses out of context and build an idea or justification around them....I don't think that just speaks to immaturity of 'different life stage'...I think it speaks of twisting God's word out of context, which is unacceptable.

Meaning...not everyone hears, knows, reads, or Studies the same things at the same time.

Not everyone has the same concept of what study means....to some it may mean READ what every commentator has written...to others something completely different.

The sole authority on interpreting and understanding Gods Word....is God.

We are told to REASON; Scripture against Scripture.

We are also told to VERIFY; What you hear Go Look and see what Scripture says.

We are also told to RIGHTLY DIVIDE the Word of TRUTH.

Lying, Cheating, Corrupting, Homosexual, Beastality, etc. going along with or encouraging such things is not okay according to Gods approval.

Our Doctrine should be IMO, Christ's Doctrine.

God Bless
Merry Christmas
Taken