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The Rapture Lie

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Christina, May 27, 2010.

  1. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    As I have pointed out on many occasions this is Hammerstones study I do not speak for what his thoughts were I just presented it
    Im sure he will be happy to explain what ever it is you do not understand he has several more on the subject here should you be interested he may have further expaaned on his thoughts
    http://www.christianityboard.com/forum/20-word-of-god-bible-study-forum/
     
  2. 01CobraVortech

    01CobraVortech New Member

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    Wow Christina...I'd like to think that this site was big enough to tolerate all kinds of views, whether it be "rapture" or not and whether they were views you agreed with or not. If it bothers you to be challenged on the "rapture" theory, then I for one will tone down the "rapture" rhetoric to make you feel more comfortable on this site. I'm sorry you feel that way.
     
  3. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    I know the Originator!
     
  4. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    Christina:

    I am not sure why you refer me to Hammerstone's Study. You posted this post, you posted about Eze 36, and support the interpetion of Eze 36.

    Christina:
    No one that believes in the Rapture theory thinks of it as flying, this is made up of those that do not support rapture.

    Eze 13:6 does not speak of the day of the Lord, Eze 30:3 uses the term and that term is very consistant with a timed event, that has nothing to do with the Rapture theory.

    Joe 1:15 Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

    Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    This even occurs after the Tribulation. How do you assume that the Rapture is connected to this?? Or those that believe in the Rapture?

    Christina:
    Eze 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

    FLY:
    1) to bud, sprout, shoot, bloom
    1a) (Qal) to bud, sprout, send out shoots, blossom
    1b) (Hiphil)
    1b1) to cause to bud or sprout
    1b2) to show buds or sprouts
    2) (Qal) to break out (of leprosy)
    3) (Qal) to fly

    How is God refering to Rapture by the taking of the saints with this Word Fly?

    According to what you have Written Christina, Not Hammerstone...........

    If God was Warning about Rapture doctrine, why bring up the Day of the Lord, which clearly is after the Tribulation?

    If God was warning us about rapture Doctrine, Why did not God say catching away to the Lord, and just use the Word Fly. How do you interpet this as a Rapture Doctrine???

    Why did God include witchcraft as those that believe in the Rapture, Does that mean we that believe in the Rapture, God considers us witches.


    These are your Post Christina.

    According to the way you interpet the bible, then all these must be Rapture scriptures.

    Job 20:8, Psa 55:6, Psa 90:10, Pro 23:5 , Hos 9:11


    Now answer the questions......... This is what YOU posted, not Hammerstone.

    Jesus Is Lord.
     
  5. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Hey geneis not sure how many times I have to repeat this
    I only copy and pasted Hammerstone's study read it I gave you the link its his study not mine so you all got questions take them to the author himself
     
  6. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    Hey genesis, I copied these from a post back in 2006, and you were the author....................

    If you can't, or don't want to tell me how you come to these conclusions because you have not studied them enough, then I understand. You put yourself on the line here with Hammerstone's study, and Hammerstone was not here to defend the position.

    If that is the case, then I respect the fact that you took the beating for something you have not studied out, and can defend properly. It shows you support the admin on this site, and that is not a bad thing.

    Jesus Is Lord.
     
  7. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    :lol: :lol: :lol: I know exactly what it means
    but I am just amazed at the links you will go too that is just hystercal :lol:
    Sad and desperate but proves my point :lol: :lol:

    You seem to think Im trying to show you something or argue have I not told you do not talk to me.
     
  8. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    what great links I mean length's would that be?

    As a bible student here to learn, I thought I was asking someone questions that had experience in the Word. I just needed the matter closed for my notes on Eze chapter 36, in regards to how God was talking about those that believe in the Rapture.

    I gave some questions that I needed help on, and it looks like you don't want to help. My hope is that others that need help in the Word from you, are not turned away so harshly.

    I will not bother anymore with this Eze question. I thank you for what time you did give me, and now have to hope these questions get answered some day.

    God bless you.

    Jesus Is Lord.
     
  9. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    No, you are NOT a student here to learn. You are of the opinion that You KNOW it all. Check the spirit you say you have leading you. It's the wrong one.
     
  10. 01CobraVortech

    01CobraVortech New Member

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    Brother Jerry...Brother Mike makes very compelling arguments for his positions using scripture. Maybe you should check the spirit that's leading you because you seem to always make posts as if you are above any kind of correction. I never see Brother Mike being the first one to get verbally aggressive or reach for an insult when someone disagrees with him.
     
  11. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    :lol: the desperation just gets better and better gee I believe poor Bro Mike has been given at least one infraction and warned by Hammerstone for just that but then what does he know compared to you Robster :lol: Like I said we need to know who runs the site so we can all be sure here who telling the truth :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
  12. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    My warning was based on something I said to Jiggyfly, someone you consider in my "Gang". It was not based on putting you down or anyone's belief.

    Jesus is Lord.
     
  13. JarBreaker

    JarBreaker New Member

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    No, he looks for opportunities to come off ersatz sweetness and lighthearted.


    Funny also, how he was also the only one to go into that other post, dragging issues from this one with him.
     
  14. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    Thank you for your response Jarbreaker. you have helped me much in my ten tribe study.

    Christina posted this original OP. In that OP it was mentioned fly away. I brought that to Christina's attention. So, Christina posted something that she believes in, and should be able to defend it. I know where the fly away came from as I have been reading this forum a few years.

    When she said it was not her study, but Hammerstones, I just brought to her attention something I remembered back in 2006. It took some time to find it, but I did.

    So you see Jarbreaker, I was just helping Christina remember what she had posted a short while ago before, and felt she might have my answers that I need. It's hard to learn, when others won't share their vast knowledge.


    Be blessed Jarbreaker.


    Jesus is Lord.
     
  15. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    bm,
    You have said in the past that you were not familiar with the rapture stuff. If you would read some of the teachers of the “rapture theory," you would discover they quite regularly use the expression. “fly away” when they talk about it.
     
  16. 01CobraVortech

    01CobraVortech New Member

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    Drop some names Jerry. I for one have never heard Chuck Missler, Hal Lindsey, Bill Salus, Grant Jeffrey or Chuck Smith express the "rapture" as a "fly away" type of event. In fact these guys have always made it a point that we will be transferred from this seen world to the unseen world. And Chuck Missler specifcally has gone into the physics behind the "rapture" as well as always expressing that we would instantaneously enjoy Jesus' 10 dimensional nature.
     
  17. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    yeah its one his tactics holy words flattery humor and then sticks it to one he thinks he is sly if you get my drift but I think you got his number :)
     
  18. Martin W.

    Martin W. Active Member

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    Earlier I made the comment that the Church appears to be absent in Revelation 9.

    For that reason I have reproduced the chapter here and underlined the portions that tend to account for EVERYBODY on earth.

    ............................................................................
    First of all , here is the tail end of chapter 8:
    .............................................................................
    [sup]13[/sup]As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: "Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!"


    ......................................................................
    And now Revelation 9 in its entirety:
    .......................................................................
    [sup]1[/sup]The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. [sup]2[/sup]When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. [sup]3[/sup]And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. [sup]4[/sup]They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. [the 144,000] [sup]5[/sup]They were not given power to kill them, but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes a man. [sup]6[/sup]During those days men will seek death, [Does this sound like the Christians?] but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.
    [sup]7[/sup]The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces. [sup]8[/sup]Their hair was like women's hair, and their teeth were like lions' teeth. [sup]9[/sup]They had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle. [sup]10[/sup]They had tails and stings like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months. [sup]11[/sup]They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon.[sup][a][/sup]

    [sup]12[/sup]The first woe is past; two other woes are yet to come.

    [sup]13[/sup]The sixth angel sounded his trumpet, and I heard a voice coming from the horns[sup][b][/sup] of the golden altar that is before God. [sup]14[/sup]It said to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates." [sup]15[/sup]And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind. [sup]16[/sup]The number of the mounted troops was two hundred million. I heard their number.

    [sup]17[/sup]The horses and riders I saw in my vision looked like this: Their breastplates were fiery red, dark blue, and yellow as sulfur. The heads of the horses resembled the heads of lions, and out of their mouths came fire, smoke and sulfur. [sup]18[/sup]A third of mankind was killed[sup]19[/sup]The power of the horses was in their mouths and in their tails; for their tails were like snakes, having heads with which they inflict injury by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths.

    [sup]20[/sup]The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood—idols that cannot see or hear or walk. [sup]21[/sup]Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.





    ..........................................

    No scholar or theologian can find the church here. Can you ?

    1. The 144,000 sealed from the 12 Tribes of Israel are accounted for.

    2. A third of mankind is killed by the plagues.

    3. The rest of mankind (the other two thirds) did not repent.




    Everyone is accounted for , except the Church. It appears to be absent.


    Best regards to everyone as they systematically search end time events for evidence that the church is here for the tribulation, or for evidence the church is not here for the tribulation.
    Martin W.




     
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  19. fivesense

    fivesense New Member

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    The evidence for you position is overwhelming. However, it is unacceptable due to reception difficulties on certain wavelengths. Should you decide to continue broadcasting over these various channels, be advised that personal preference will interfere with real-time transmission.
    fivesense




    Do not be mistaken, I for one appreciate your input. God needs a foil to contrast His goodness and mercy. The input you provide is essential to all of us here that are seeking to know our Father. Many dualities exist within the Body, and the ones who are being brought ahead to discern them need you to arouse them to the next level. I, for one, have made much forward progress through you diatribes and unpleasentries. Keep on keepin' on, and again, I tell you I value your opinions.
    fivesense
     
  20. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    Glory to God!!!!!!!

    Martin W...................I am so thankful that we agree on this one!!! Fivesens, though we have not agreed on everything your wisdom and support have encouraged many that hold on to the Rapture, and the truth of it.


    The Holy Spirit kept telling me over and over don't count!!!! We are given in the Word when to do so, like one day is like what to the Lord. The bible will aways lead you into Keys to the map, The Word will tell you. I was counting trumpets, and knew that they were not the same Trumpets. Trumpet angel holds Trump of God.......(Thank you fivesense and Wife for Making that more clear) Something else the Holy spirit alerted me to. It's what Martin W. made so clear here. We don't see the Church after Rev Chapter 3, and then mentioned again at the end of the book.

    The language of the Church is missing, It kept coming to me over and over. So, I looked.

    The Great commission to us.

    Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

    This was so vital to the Church, and it's operation in the Power of the Holy Spirit, and anointing. Christ and the Church. Jesus who being the Head, and Lord over. Preach the Gospel!!!!

    Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

    1Co 9:12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

    How important it was for the Church to preach the Gospel. Mentioned 103 times in in the K

    On the 104th time it is mentioned once in the book of Revelation.

    Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

    An Angel? Preaching the Gospel to all on earth? Where is the Holy Spirit? Where is the gospel of Christ (Anointing) Where is the Church?

    Salvation is used 3 times....................Not by the Church, but it's the Salvation of God.

    Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

    Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

    Rev 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God

    Where is the Church?

    Jesus is taught!!! but it is not the Gospel of Christ, it is what was taught before the Lord Jesus was anointed on high. It is what John The Baptist taught. Minus the baptism of the Holy Spirit.............. This is the teaching of Jesus without the power and indwelling of the Holy Ghost. That part is missing. The Indwelling of the Holy Spirit is missing!!!!! The anointing, the greater one in us than any devil in the World. That Power is missing. The Holy Spirit is in the same Roll He played before the day of Pentecost.

    Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

    That Spirit of Prophecy came upon men of the Old Testament. Men were not filled with the Holy Spirit.

    Where is the Church???

    The Holy Spirit testifies of Jesus. Christ and the Church........... The most important thing to the Lord Jesus today. His Church. He is the corner stone.

    That is how I did my studies and prayed about. It had to be focused on Jesus. Hammerstone said it was not the Holy Spirit. He sort of hurt my feelings, but I kept quit. All the evidence is there, but he said he heard it before. Fine......... I came into this thing trying to prove one or the other. I had no idea. I knew to focus on Jesus though, and the Church.

    Hammerstone:

    God was with Noah also. Noah did not escape the Earth, but the point is, a way of saftey was made for Noah and his family.

    Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
    Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
    Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be

    This is before the whole earth is destroyed by the Flood. This is before the trouble starts. Jesus said it is just like Noah. However, unlike Noah, Jesus tells us what happens.............. The coming of the son of man, then

    Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
    Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

    Jesus gives the account above of his coming after the tribulation. He gives both accounts in this Chapter. We are protected.

    At the last trump. (The trump of God, not at trump of a Angel or one a angel is holding) there will be a series of trumpet blast, just like Jewish tradition with the shofar. They will be loud and clear, they shall ring over the whole earth. On that last trumpet blast the Church shall be removed from the earth, before the time of trouble. We are protected, because we are not here..........

    Edit: ............. wife thinks that 1 Cor 15 may not be related to (1 Th 4:16) where last trump was mentioned. I'll have to look into that, but in any case, we are taken. as jesus told of Noah.

    Jesus Is Lord.
     
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