The Rapture Of The Church

[Christina]

(smitharbie;65904)
Question??There is always a great amount of discussion concerning the 'RAPTURE'. However, it seems that when someone uses the term Rapture, it is automatically assumed that they are referring to a pre-tribulation rapture. I, personally, believe in a post-tribulation rapture, and that the Rapture is synonymous with the Second Coming of Christ in the clouds of heaven, and that the pre-tribulation doctrine is one of error, and even lends itself to Satan's attempt at deceiving people into becoming complacent. However, I still many times refer to the event of being 'caught up' to be with the Lord in the air, as the Rapture because the word rapture means 'caught up'. Is there some reason why someone using the word 'Rapture' is automatically pounced on as if they were Satan's emissaries? Am I missing something, or is the word 'Rapture' a sworn enemy? Is it possible or not possible to use the word Rapture without aligning with 'pre-trib' error?
You are somewhat correct its true that most jump on the word as meaning Pre- tribbut that is the lie most men preach today... So therefore the word Rapture has become synonymous with Pre -Trib Another problem with this as far as the Word Rapture is what men have come to understand it means some kind of escape .. It does not. If there is a Post trib Rapture which is the only kind/time of a Rapture that has any Biblical possibility or support is it will be very short lived.. as Christ is coming here to rule on earth so any meeting in the air would be a very short term event... So it becomes a very fine line for those of us that are concerned for our fellow brothers and sisters are being mislead and lied to by because if we say Rapture its the idea one will escape that concerns us. There is no escape everyone has to chose to follow Christ or Antichrist this is the trashing the harvest where the true Wheat (believer) is separated from the chaff The true believer will escape only by following Gods commands and knowing his Word God has foretold us all things he tells that antichrist comes first If we learn this simple truth we can then understand we are to stay working in the field (world) and not believe a lie, Rapture teaches people to believe "oh this is lesson not for us we wont be here". That is the danger if you dont know when Antichrist comes you are in danger of following the wrong christ.The way Gods protects his own is the same way he did in Egypt when the Angel of death came ..Passover is our example of how the true believer will escape.. Not any made up theory of mans fly away doctrine (Eze 13:20)pre-trib rapture doctrineSo I guess in essence what Im saying is if there is a Rapture, its after we see the Lord coming in the clouds at the 7th trump, and compared to that glorious event any short term raising to meet him is really a nothing but a meager detail, which is why its only mentioned once. Even then the subject of the chapter is "where are the dead" ...not a rapture so if, one is alluded to at all, its not even the subject of the chapter, but a mere mention. The only point worth making about it, if that's what one believes is said,is that it lets us know what to expect at the true Christs coming...So if anyone wants to make a big deal out of it .its usually because they have made a doctrine out of Pre-trib Ratpure which doesnt even exist in scripture so thats why we always assume its Pre-Trib they want to talk about..

 

[JosyWales]

Just a couple of points.Lets look at the passage that is the basis of the whole rapture theory (in whatever form)1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Has anyone considered that some of the imagry of this passage is used as symbolism in other witings of Paul?Air is a symbol for Spirit in Eph 2:2. When speaking of Satan being the "Prince of the Power of the Air" and then clearifying it so we understand that he is speaking of the spirit that is within.The verse goes like this "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: I actually know someone who thinks that Air really means air in this passage and that Satan rules the atmosphere. Also the use of Clouds is used by Paul in Hebrews to mean multitude and seems to be used in other places as that as well.Hbr 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, My point is that this passage may just be saying that when Christ returns, we will be caught up to Him spiritually by the pouring out of the Holy Spirit upon us that remain and the Clouds may be a reference to the multitude of angels that will come with Him at this time.Allow me to show you some another passages in the Old Testament that seems to be also speaking of this event. After all, keeping all the bible in context is rather important.Zec 9:14 And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord GOD shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south. To be compared with:Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. andZec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn. withAct 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: I guess what I am trying to say (I do try to keep it simple and clear as well as I can) is that I think that the passage in Thes means that when Christ returns the following passage will be fulfilled:Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David [shall be] as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. In a nutshell, what I believe is that just as the Beast is about to devour the last of the childern of God, Christ appears and fulls them will absolute power, causing them to turn the tables and take over the Beasts' kingdom. At that time the fulfillment of Revelations will occur.PS. Notice the end of the last passage that speaks of these children of God becoming as God "as the Angel of the Lord before them"?Since this is a future event and most of us know that Jesus is not an angel, but the Son of God, I believe this supports my contention of Michael appearing on the earth to lead the children of God during the Last Times is true.

 

[JosyWales]

Oh well, what do I know, right?

 

[precepts]

With all due respect:
Job 11:2 Should not the multitude of words be answered? and should a man full of talk be justified? Ecc 10:14 A fool also is full of words: a man cannot tell what shall be; and what shall be after him, who can tell him?

 

[Tman]

(Christina;66013)
You are somewhat correct its true that most jump on the word as meaning Pre- tribbut that is the lie most men preach today... So therefore the word Rapture has become synonymous with Pre -Trib Another problem with this as far as the Word Rapture is what men have come to understand it means some kind of escape .. It does not. If there is a Post trib Rapture which is the only kind/time of a Rapture that has any Biblical possibility or support is it will be very short lived.. as Christ is coming here to rule on earth so any meeting in the air would be a very short term event... So it becomes a very fine line for those of us that are concerned for our fellow brothers and sisters are being mislead and lied to by because if we say Rapture its the idea one will escape that concerns us. There is no escape everyone has to chose to follow Christ or Antichrist this is the trashing the harvest where the true Wheat (believer) is separated from the chaff The true believer will escape only by following Gods commands and knowing his Word God has foretold us all things he tells that antichrist comes first If we learn this simple truth we can then understand we are to stay working in the field (world) and not believe a lie, Rapture teaches people to believe "oh this is lesson not for us we wont be here". That is the danger if you dont know when Antichrist comes you are in danger of following the wrong christ.The way Gods protects his own is the same way he did in Egypt when the Angel of death came ..Passover is our example of how the true believer will escape.. Not any made up theory of mans fly away doctrine (Eze 13:20)pre-trib rapture doctrineSo I guess in essence what Im saying is if there is a Rapture, its after we see the Lord coming in the clouds at the 7th trump, and compared to that glorious event any short term raising to meet him is really a nothing but a meager detail, which is why its only mentioned once. Even then the subject of the chapter is "where are the dead" ...not a rapture so if, one is alluded to at all, its not even the subject of the chapter, but a mere mention. The only point worth making about it, if that's what one believes is said,is that it lets us know what to expect at the true Christs coming...So if anyone wants to make a big deal out of it .its usually because they have made a doctrine out of Pre-trib Ratpure which doesnt even exist in scripture so thats why we always assume its Pre-Trib they want to talk about..
God has never run from a fight. If the rapture believers want to run, so be it.

 

[verzanumi24]

But Jesus said,wide is the road to destruction, but narrow is the road to heaven!In Revelation, at the great white throne judgement it very clearly states that even the sea will give up the dead. It also says that a large amount of people will be thrown into the lake of fire!Jesus also said in Mathew, that in that in that day many will say Lord, Lord we did all of these things in your name, and He will say get away from me I never knew you!Every thing that I've ever read in all of Jesus' teachings He always taught that very few will choose the right road!

[font="Arial""]Well, it does not say a large amount of people will be cast into the lake of fire that is a stretch to believe that.[/font][font="Arial""][/font]

 

[teamventure]

(special1;10987)
I DO BELIEVE IN THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH MENTIONED IN l OR ll THESSALONIANS 4:13-18. JESUS CHRIST SAID THAT WE WHICH ARE ALIVE SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TO JOIN HIM IN THE CLOUDS. I KNOW HE IS COMING SOON.SPECIAL1DONNA
Greetings, special1: I have a question for you. Who are the "we" of 2 Thessalonians 4? Paul is including himself and his contemporaries when he says, "we who are alive and remain at the COMING of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep" (2 Thes. 4:15). Paul is including himself and his contemporaries when he says, "then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air" (verse 17). This was their comfort! It is no comfort for Paul to say that the Lord was not to come to their rescue and to avenge them for nearly two thousand years! "Therefore comfort one another with these words!" (1 Thes. 4:18). We are not the WE of this passage! Furthermore, did not Jesus tells those of His day that He was coming back in their lifetimes? Note:"YOU (the disciples whom He sent out to the lost sheep of Israel) will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man COMES!" (Mat. 10:23)."There are some standing HERE who shall not taste death till THEY see the Son of Man COMING in His kingdom" (Mat. 16:28)."Hereafter, YOU (Caiaphas and the rulers) will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power and COMING on the clouds of heaven" (Mat. 26:64)."THIS generation will by no means pass away till ALL these things take place (including His coming)" (Mat. 24:34).What is the context of all of these passages? What is the audience relevance? To whom and about whom is Jesus directly speaking?There are approximately twenty YOUs in Matthew 24. Jesus was not addressing us about the things written there. He was addressing His first-century, pre-AD 70 disciples standing right there with Him about things that were to happen in THEIR lifetimes not ours! THEY were to hear of wars and rumors of wars. THEY were not to be troubled. THEY were to be persecuted, hated, and killed. THEY were to see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet. There is much in Scripture that is written FOR us but not TO us. Jesus cannot be coming soon as you expect. He already came!JesusReigns (NOW)

if Jesus already came again, then what prophecies are still future?

 

[RevDrRed]

Rapture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR4u4-pNtms&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[tgwprophet]

Tomwebster wrote: " Sorry excepttruthThe rapture doctrine is TRASH, and it will lead you to worship the false christ. You may believe it if you wish, the ChristianityBoard does NOT. We do not even argue it.If you haven't seen this yet, you need to read it: http://www.christian...m/?page=rapture "

Rapture understanding is trash? Not in my studies.
" and it will lead you to worship the false christ " Tom that is just not true!

I can accept that not one of us knows everything, in fact! I can safely say even the 2 witnesses do not know everything, but to claim if one or both of the two witnesses believe, think or understand the rapture as being true will force them to follow satan? no way.

peace brother.