The Restrainer. And the Restrained.

[Waiting on him]

Then why does John who wrote revelation and the only writer in the bible to mention the word antichrist name them and describe them differently?

1 Thessalonians 2:14-16 KJV
[14] For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: [15] Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: [16] Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

The restrainer.

 

[Brakelite]

After the death of Solomon, the ten tribes separated themselves from Judah and Benjamin, and under the kingship, and by the direction, of Jeroboam, established a false worship through the two golden calves copied from Egypt, one of which was placed in Bethel and the other in Dan. Each of the successors of Jeroboam walked in the way of Jeroboam "and in his sin wherewith he made Israel to sin," unto the time of Omri, who in this wicked way "did worse than all that were before him." "And Ahab the son of Omri did evil in the sight of the Lord above all that were before him. And it came to pass as if it had been a light thing for him to walk in the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, that he took to wife Jezebel, the daughter of Ethbaal, king of the Zidonians, and went and served Baal, and worshiped him. And he reared up an altar for Baal in the house of Baal, which he had built in Samaria. And Ahab made a grove; and Ahab did more to provoke the Lord God of Israel to anger than all the kings of Israel that were before him." 1 Kings 16:30-33.
From this it is evident that as corrupt and degrading as was the worship established by Jeroboam, that of the sun was far worse. Ethbaal was a priest of Baal and Astarte, who assassinated the king and made himself king in his stead. Jezebel brought with her into Israel the worship of Baal and Astarte,—the male and female sun,—and established it to such an extent that in a few years there were four hundred and fifty prophets of Baal and four hundred of Astarte, and only seven thousand people in all Israel who had not joined in the wicked worship. Elijah began a reformation, but the worship and the gods introduced by Jezebel remained in some measure till the reign of Jehu, who gathered every worshiper of Baal to a general assembly in honor of Baal, and slew them all. "And they brought forth the images out of the house of Baal, and burned them. And they brake down the image of Baal, and brake down the house of Baal, and made it a draught house unto this day. Thus Jehu destroyed Baal out of Israel. Howbeit from the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin, Jehu departed not from after them, to wit, the golden calves that were in Bethel and that were in Dan." 2 Kings 10:26-29

Athaliah, the daughter of Ahab and Jezebel, married Jehoram, the son of Jehoshaphat king of Judah, and with her, sun worship through Baal and Ashtaroth was introduced into the kingdom of Judah; for Jehoram "walked in the way of the kings of Israel, as did the house of Ahab; for the daughter of Ahab was his wife: and he did evil in the sight of the Lord." 2 Kings 8:18. This worship of Baalim continued till the time of Hezekiah, who "brake the images in pieces, and cut down the groves (Asheras, representations of Ashtaroth), and threw-down the high places and the altars out of all Judah and Benjamin." 2 Chronicles 31:1. By Manasseh, however, this worship was all restored in its fullest extent; "for he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshiped all the host of heaven, and served them. Also he built altars in the house of the Lord whereof the Lord had said, In Jerusalem shall my name be forever. And he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the Lord. And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to anger. And he set a carved image, the idol which he had made in the house of God of which God had said to David and to Solomon his son, In this house and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen before all the tribes of Israel, will I put my name forever." 2 Chronicles 33:3-7.
This image which he set in the house of the Lord was rather a double image of Baal and Ashtaroth, which he put up above the altars of Baal in the house of the Lord. The cloisters about the temple were used as stables for the horses which were dedicated to the sun. By the side of the temple he built houses for the priests and priestesses of the Baalim, where the women wove hangings for the figures of Astarte.
Happily, Manasseh was succeeded by Josiah, who annihilated this whole system. "For in the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet young, he began to seek after the God of David his father: and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem from the high places, and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images. And they brake down the altars of Baalim in his presence; and the images that were on high above them he cut down; and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images he brake in pieces and made dust of them, and strewed it upon the graves of them that had sacrificed unto them."
"And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the Lord, where the women wove hangings for the grove. And he brought all the priests out of the cities of Judah and defiled the high places where the priests had burned incense, from Geba to Beer-sheba, and brake down the high places of the gates that were in the entering in of the gate of Joshua, the governor of the city, which were on a man's left hand at the gate of the city.... And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech. And he took away the horses that the kings of Judah had given to the sun, at the entering in of the house of the Lord, by the chamber of Nathan-melech the chamberlain, which was in the suburbs, and burned the chariots of the sun with fire. And the altars that were on the top of the upper chamber of Ahaz, which the kings of Judah had made, and the altars which Manasseh had made in the two courts of the house of the Lord, did the king beat down, and brake them down from thence, and cast the dust of them into the brook Kidron." 2 Chronicles 34:3, 4; 2 Kings 23:7-12.
Yet by the time that Zedekiah reigned, there was again a serious lapse not only into certain forms of sun worship, but into the open worship of the literal sun. Ezekiel was among the captives in Babylonia, and by the Spirit of God he was taken in a vision to Jerusalem, and was caused to see the abominations that were being practiced there. First, he was caused to see the image of Jealousy in the very entry way to the altar of sacrifice, before the house of the Lord.
He was told to turn, and he would see greater abominations than this. He then saw, "and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, portrayed upon the wall round about. And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up."
Again he was told to turn, and he would see yet greater abominations than this that they were doing. He was then brought "to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz."
And he was told to turn yet again, and he should see greater abominations even than this. "And he brought me into the inner court of the Lord's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east, and they worshiped the sun toward the east." Ezekiel 8:16.
All that is meant in this we cannot tell; but this much is certain, that, in the estimate of Jehovah, as bad as was the worship of Astarte, and however much it provoked to jealousy; as bad as was the worship of all manner of abominable beasts; as bad as was the worship of Tammuz; yet worse than all these, even though in them were embodied some forms of sun worship—more abominable than all these was the setting of the face toward the east, in the worship of the sun itself. This was to turn the back upon the Lord; to leave him and his worship behind; and, in worshiping the visible sun, to choose all that was included in all the forms of its worship that might be known. This was open apostasy—the renunciation of all that was good and the acceptance of all that was bad.
Now, aside from the lascivious rites of Bacchus and Hercules, and beyond the fearful orgies of Cybele, this very form of worship prevailed in the Roman empire. The worship of the sun itself was the principal worship of the Romans in the time of Constantine. The sun, as represented in Apollo, was the chief and patron divinity recognized by Augustus. "Apollo was the patron of the spot which had given a name to his great victory of Actium; Apollo himself, it was proclaimed, had fought for Rome and for Octavius on that auspicious day; the same Apollo, the sun-god, had shuddered in his bright career at the murder of the dictator, and had terrified the nations by the eclipse of his divine countenance... . Besides building a splendid temple to Apollo on the Palatine Hill, the emperor sought to honor him by transplanting to the Circus Maximus, the sports of which were under his special protection, an obelisk from Heliopolis city of the sun in Egypt. This flame-shaped column was a symbol of the sun, and originally bore a blazing orb upon its summit."— Merivale. 14

 

[Brakelite]

To Sol Deus invictus —the sun, the unconquerable god—were attributed the world-wide conquests of the Roman power. The greatest and most magnificent temple that ever was built on earth, except only that built by Solomon, was erected by Antoninus Pius, emperor of Rome, at Baalbek, in honor of the visible shining sun.
But it was in Elagabalus that the worship of the sun received its strongest imperial impetus. The way that he became emperor was this: The emperor Caracalla was murdered near Antioch, March 8, A. D. 217, and there Macrinus became emperor in his stead. Caracalla's mother committed suicide shortly afterward, and then Macrinus commanded Julia Maesa, her sister, to leave Antioch with her family. She went to Emesa where a considerable body of troops was stationed, and where was a temple of the sun which the troops frequented in their worship. Julia's grandson, Bassianus, was made high-priest of the sun in this temple. In this young man the troops "recognized, or thought they recognized, the features of Caracalla." Julia took particular pains, by the careful distribution of money, to deepen this impression, and May 16, 218, he was declared emperor by the troops at Emesa. He asserted his hereditary right to the office because of his relationship to Caracalla.
The rebellion rapidly spread among the troops throughout the province. Officers who tried to check it were murdered, and the power of young Bassianus daily grew.
Macrinus assembled his troops, and left Antioch to quell the insurrection. A battle was fought, and Macrinus was slain, thus ending a reign of eighty-seven days, and Bassianus became emperor in fact, June 7, A. D. 218. He assumed the name of Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, and sent letters to the Senate announcing his accession to the empire in the place of Macrinus. Not being ready just then to go to Rome personally, he sent a picture of himself which he commanded to be placed in the Senate house over the altar of victory. "He was drawn in his sacerdotal robes of silk and gold, after the loose flowing fashion of the Medes and Phoenicians; his head was covered with a lofty tiara, his numerous collars and bracelets were adorned with gems of an inestimable value. His eyebrows were tinged with black, and his cheeks painted with an artificial red and white."— Gibbon. 15 The name under which the sun was worshiped at Emesa, where Bassianus was high-priest, was Elagabalus. His accession to the office of emperor he attributed to the favor of this sun-god. Therefore as emperor he assumed the name of Elagabalus as greater and more honorable than any that might be derived from any other source, and by this name alone is he known in history.
When he went to Rome, the "black conical stone" from Emesa, the symbol of the functions of the sun, was taken with him, and as he moved "in a solemn procession through the streets of Rome, the way was strewed with gold dust; the black stone, set in precious gems, was placed on a chariot drawn by six milk-white horses richly caparisoned. The pious emperor held the reins, and supported by his ministers, moved slowly backwards, that he might perpetually enjoy the felicity of the divine presence. In a magnificent temple raised on the Palatine Mount, the sacrifices of the god Elagabalus were celebrated with every circumstance of cost and solemnity. The richest wines, the most extraordinary victims, and the rarest aromatics, were profusely consumed on his altar. Around the altar a chorus of Syrian damsels performed their lascivious dances to the sound of barbarian music."— Gibbon. 16
It was in perfect harmony with the rites of sun worship everywhere that all the laws of nature and decency should be violated and subverted by Elagabalus; that he should have a long train of concubines, and a rapid succession of wives; that a vestal virgin should be taken by force from her sacred retreat to feed his passion; and that he should put on the dress, and play the part, of a woman, while he publicly assigned to another the title and the place of husband to himself. All these things belonged with the worship of the sun, and all this Elagabalus did, not as emperor, but as imperial high-priest and representative of the sun. As emperor and high-priest of the sun, it was his chief purpose, and "it was openly asserted, that the worship of the sun, under his name of Elagabalus, was to supercede all other worship."— Milman. 17
As soon as Aurelian became emperor, March, A. D. 270, he began the erection of a temple of Rome in honor of the sun. In A. D. 272 he made an expedition against Zenobia, who had established her authority in the East with her capital at Baalbek. When he had overthrown her power and captured her capital city, he left an officer with a garrison of troops to govern the city while he returned to Europe. The people arose and murdered the governor and his soldiers. Aurelian returned and gave up the people to indiscriminate massacre, and made of the city itself a heap of ruins. The only attempt he made to repair it was to restore the temple of the sun, which Antoninus had built. When he returned to Rome in A. D. 274, he celebrated a triumph, which, in magnificence and the abundance of treasures, was second to none that Rome had ever seen. At this time also he dedicated his magnificent temple to the sun.
"A considerable portion of his oriental spoils was consecrated to the gods of Rome; the Capitol, and every other temple, glittered with the offerings of his ostentatious piety; and the temple of the sun alone received above fifteen thousand pounds of gold. This last was a magnificent structure, erected by the emperor on the side of the Quirinal Hill, and dedicated soon after the triumph, to that deity whom Aurelian adored as the parent of his life and fortunes. His mother had been an inferior priestess in a chapel of the sun; a peculiar devotion to the god of light, was a sentiment which the fortunate peasant imbibed in his infancy; and every step of his elevation, every victory of his reign, fortified superstition by gratitude."— Gibbon. 18
The immediate predecessor of the emperor Diocletian died on his way from Persia to Europe. The fact of his death was concealed from the army for a time, which gave rise to a strong suspicion that he had been murdered. When Diocletian was chosen emperor, he therefore deemed it necessary to purge himself of all suspicion by a means which would prove satisfactory to all. He did it by a solemn oath in the face of the sun. "Conscious that the station which he had filled, exposed him to some suspicions, Diocletian ascended the tribunal, and raising his eyes towards the sun, made a solemn profession of his own innocence, in the presence of that all-seeing deity."— Gibbon.
And it was the oracle of the sun—Apollo—at Miletus, which he consulted before he issued the decree of persecution, to which he was so strongly urged by Galerius, who was prompted by his mother, a fanatical worshiper of Cybele.
But it was in Constantine that, after Elagabalus, the sun found its most worshipful devotee. As emperor of Rome he had to show some deference to the other gods, and therefore on the medals which were issued in honor of his victories, there were the figures of Jupiter and Mars, as well as of Hercules and Apollo. Up to the period of his war with Maxentius, A. D. 312, "all that we know of Constantine's religion would imply that he was outwardly, and even zealously, pagan. In a public oration, his panegyrist extols the magnificence of his offerings to the gods. His victorious presence was not merely expected to restore more than their former splendor to the Gaulish cities ruined by barbaric incursions, but sumptuous temples were to arise at his bidding, to propitiate the deities, particularly Apollo, his tutelary god. The medals struck for these victories are covered with the symbols of paganism. Eusebius himself admits that Constantine was at this time in doubt which religion he should embrace." Milman
Thus as emperor, and to satisfy the prejudices of the people, some respectful deference was shown to other gods, but "the devotion of Constantine was more peculiarly directed to the genius of the sun, the Apollo of Greek and Roman mythology; and he was pleased to be represented with the symbols of the god of light and poetry. The unerring shafts of that deity, the brightness of his eyes, his laurel wreath, immortal beauty, and elegant accomplishments, seemed to point him out as the patron of a young hero. The altars of Apollo were crowned with the votive offerings of Constantine; and the credulous multitude were taught to believe that the emperor was permitted to behold with mortal eyes the visible majesty of their tutelar deity; and that, either waking or in a vision, he was blessed with the auspicious omens of a long and victorious reign. The sun was universally celebrated as the invincible guide and protector of Constantine."— Gibbon
In the time of Constantine, and in Constantine himself, the worship of the sun occupied the imperial seat, and was the imperial religion of Rome.
The Two Republics. A.T. Jones

This encapsulates the mystery religions of Kabbala, and modern Freemasonry. And of course in and behind it all is Luciferianism. This is what Paul was at pains to warn the churches of the east that soon after his departure, this mystery of iniquity, borrowed and derived from the pagan powers previously including those of Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome, would make their insidious way into the Christian Church and take up residence there. Hence we see now in Roman catholicism, the little horn, abides this mystery sun worship in all it's glory.

 

[Brakelite]

These apostates not being content with so much of the sun worship as appeared in the celebration of the mysteries, adopted the heathen custom of worshiping toward the East. So says the history: -- "Before the coming of Christ, all the Eastern nations performed divine worship with their faces turned to that part of the heavens where the sun displays his rising beams. This custom was founded upon a general opinion that God, whose essence they looked upon to be light, and whom they considered as being circumscribed within certain limits, dwelt in that part of the firmament from which he sends forth the sun, the bright image of his benignity and glory. The Christian converts, indeed, rejected this gross error [of supposing that God dwelt in that part of the firmament]; but they retained the ancient and universal custom of worshiping toward the east, which sprang from it. Nor is this custom abolished even in our times, but still prevails in a great number of Christian churches." -- Moscheim.
The next step in addition to this was the adoption of the day of the sun as a festival day. To such an extent were the forms of sun worship practiced in this apostasy, that before the close of the second century the heathen themselves charged these so-called Christians with worshiping the sun. A presbyter of the church of Carthage, then and now one of the "church Fathers," who wrote about A. D. 200, considered it necessary to make a defense of the practice, which he did to the following effect in an address to the rulers and magistrates of the Roman empire: -- "Others, again, certainly with more information and greater verisimilitude, believe that the sun is our god. We shall be counted Persians perhaps though we do not worship the orb of day painted on a piece of linen cloth, having himself everywhere in his own disc. The idea no doubt has originated from our being known to turn to the east in prayer. But you, many of you, also under pretense sometimes of worshiping the heavenly bodies, move your lips in the direction of the sunrise. In the same way, if we devote Sunday to rejoicing from a far different reason than sun worship we have some resemblance to those of you who devote the day of Saturn to ease and luxury though they too go far away from Jewish ways, of which indeed they are ignorant." -- Tertullian.
And again in an address to all the heathen he justifies this practice by the argument, in effect, You do the same thing, you originated it too, therefore you have no right to blame us. In his own words his defense is as follows: -- "Others, with greater regard to good manners, it must be confessed, suppose that the sun is the god of the Christians, because it is a well known fact that we pray towards the east, or because we make Sunday a day of festivity. What then? Do you do less than this? Do not many among you, with an affectation of sometimes worshiping the heavenly bodies, likewise move your lips in the direction of the sunrise? It is you, at all events, who have admitted the sun into the calendar of the week; and you have selected its day, in preference to the preceding day, as the most suitable in the week for either an entire abstinence from the bath, or for its postponement until the evening, or for taking rest and banqueting." -- Tertullian.
This accommodation was easily made, and all this practice was easily justified, by the perverse minded teachers, in the perversion of such scriptures as, "The Lord God is a sun and shield" (Ps. 84:1I); and, "Unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings." Mal. 4:2.
As this custom spread and through it such disciples were multiplied, the ambition of the bishop of Rome grew apace. It was in honor of the day of the sun that there was manifested the first attempt of the bishop of Rome to compel the obedience of all other bishops, and the fact that this attempt was made in such a cause, at the very time when these pretended Christians were openly accused by the heathen with worshiping the sun, is strongly suggestive. From Rome there came now another addition to the sun-worshiping apostasy. The first Christians being mostly Jews, continued to celebrate the passover in remembrance of the death of Christ, the true passover; and this was continued among those who from among the Gentiles had turned to Christ. Accordingly the celebration was always on the passover day -- the fourteenth of the first month. Rome, however, and from her all the West, adopted the day of the sun as the day of this celebration. According to the Eastern custom, the celebration, being on the fourteenth day of the month, would of course fall on different days of the week as the years revolved. The rule of Rome was that the celebration must always be on a Sunday -- the Sunday nearest to the fourteenth day of the first month of the Jewish year. And if the fourteenth day of that month should of the Jewish year. Sunday, then the celebration was not to be held on that day, but upon the next Sunday. One reason of this was not only to be as like heathen as possible, but to be as unlike the Jews as possible: this, in order not only to facilitate the "conversion" of the heathen by conforming to their customs, but also by pandering to their spirit of contempt and hatred of the Jews. It was upon this point that the bishop of Rome made his first open attempt at absolutism. So it is a mistake to believe that Constantine was the first to introduce Sunday into the church. He certainly made Sunday a civil requirement, but Sunday, although not a day sacred in scripture, was a part of the apostasy Paul spoke of and warned about that would inundate the church soon after his death.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Sun worship. Not a lost art.
The almost numberless forms of sun worship were practiced in Canaan. In the practice of these fearful abominations they had so corrupted themselves that in the expressive figure of the Scripture, the very earth had grown so sick that it was compelled to vomit out the filthy inhabitants. "The land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants." Leviticus 18:25. All of this the God of heaven taught his people to renounce. "Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you: (for all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled): that the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you. For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people. Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the Lord your God." Leviticus 18:26-30. 13
In all these prohibitions the people were taught to shun as the terrible plague that it was, every suggestion of the evil influences of the worship of the sun. They were to break down all the sun-images and carved stocks—groves—that might be found anywhere in all the land which the Lord had given them. See Exodus 23:24; 33:13, 14.
In yet another and most comprehensive way the Lord taught his people to shun every indication of the worship of the sun. The devotees of the sun worshiped with their faces toward the east. When God established his worship with the children of Israel in the very midst of the sun worshiping nations round about, at first a sanctuary was built and afterwards a temple, where he dwelt by the glory of his presence. To the door of this sanctuary every form of sacrifice and offering was to be brought, and there they were to worship. And the door of that sanctuary (the temple also) was always toward the east, in order that all who would sacrifice to Jehovah and worship him, would in so doing turn their backs upon the sun and its worship; and that whoever joined in the worship of the sun, had first to turn his back upon Jehovah.
Through the periods of the judges there were lapses into sun worship among the children of Israel, but they were restored to the worship of the Lord, and by the influence of Samuel and David, and Solomon in his early days, the whole nation was separated from sun worship in all its forms, and united in the pure worship of Jehovah. Yet in his later years Solomon turned from the Lord, and "loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites; of the nations concerning which the Lord said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love. And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart. For it came to pass when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father. For Solomon went after Ashtaroth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. And Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord and went not fully after the Lord, as did David his father. Then did Solomon build a high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon. And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods".

I hope you are not saying that Christians that go to church on Sunday are sun worshipers. That is about as silly as me talking about the pagan god of Saturn

Saturn, Latin Saturnus, in Roman religion, the god of sowing or seed. The Romans equated him with the Greek agricultural deity Cronus. The remains of Saturn's temple at Rome, eight columns of the pronaos (porch), still dominate the west end of the Forum at the foot of the Clivus Capitolinus.

There is no law saying to worship on Sunday. In fact, the early Christians met daily. So why was Sunday chosen? Because it is the day Jesus rose from the dead. It is also the day the church started on the Day of Pentecost, the start of the New Covenant. So it is a day of celebrating, not keep Sunday or die. It's a whole different mindset when the laws of LOVE are written on our hearts.

 

[Brakelite]

I hope you are not saying that Christians that go to church on Sunday are sun worshipers. That is about as silly as me talking about the pagan god of Saturn

Saturn, Latin Saturnus, in Roman religion, the god of sowing or seed. The Romans equated him with the Greek agricultural deity Cronus. The remains of Saturn's temple at Rome, eight columns of the pronaos (porch), still dominate the west end of the Forum at the foot of the Clivus Capitolinus.

There is no law saying to worship on Sunday. In fact, the early Christians met daily. So why was Sunday chosen? Because it is the day Jesus rose from the dead. It is also the day the church started on the Day of Pentecost, the start of the New Covenant. So it is a day of celebrating, not keep Sunday or die. It's a whole different mindset when the laws of LOVE are written on our hearts.

Sunday was introduced into the church through apostate bishops in the first century, along with other traditions and forms of sun worship. These practices grew until such time as they were enforced by the church. Sabbath keepers, who were by far in the majority outside of Rome and Alexandria, were persecuted.
Now. What you do with that information and how you reconcile it is entirely up to you. But please, don't do the pagan/saturn thing. That's just a nonsense childish undignified throw away argument not worthy of you. You can do better than that. The original Sunday sacredness was not introduced into the church by devout Christians. It was introduced by those bishops Paul was warning about, "that from your own selves shall men arise speaking perverse things to draw disciples away unto themselves." If you want any more evidence that sun worship was introduced into the church in early centuries but after the deaths of the apostles, I would be happy to oblige...or alternatively, take a visit to the Vatican and the numerous cathedrals around Rome and see all the symbolism and art that graphically depict how sun worship is so well integrated into the Catholic church. You observe Sunday because you inherited it from Rome. Looking for it in scripture has long been a lost cause. Even the Catholic church declares that scripture has no mandate or suggestion that Sunday has replaced the Sabbath as a day for rest and worship. They admit, no boast, that Sunday was their responsibility and their addition to Christian faith and practice, because they teach tradition is the equal and in some cases the arbiter of scripture.
That is the history and the context of its introduction into the church. Now Constantine and other emperors had some input, but it was the bishops of the apostate church of Rome who had the far greater influences, and sunday was just one of many improvisations to the Christian faith that were borrowed from paganism. Now of course you have your own reasons for observing Sunday. But in that observation, you willingly are in submission to a dogma and teaching of the Roman apostasy, whether you like it or not.
As for no laws regarding Sunday, be patient. They're coming. Maybe not in the way you expect, but they're coming nevertheless.

 

[Brakelite]

Okay. I've got a little sidetracked as it wasn't my intention to get so deep into the "mystery of iniquity", but @marks asked, and because it is relevant, I was happy to oblige. There is oodles of more information I could offer, the above being the bare bones so to speak of a subject that is in reality, deeply concerning, or ought to be, for the modern church. I do not think that what Paul warned about, we appreciate at all the depths and breadth or the extent to how far imbedded the mystery religions are embedded in our churches and in our culture. Just one example for instance is the triquetra diagram emblazoned boldly on NIV Bibles. Yes, a symbol of sun worship. And don't for a moment think that its there by accident. Anyway. Back to the main subject of this conversation...what was the restrainer, and what was being restrained.
Although the mystery religions were openly displayed for all to see and witness in all the pagan cultures that preceded Christianity, from Babylon to Egypt, and from Persia to Scandinavia, and from Greece to Rome, none of that was the threat to the faith of millions as that which invaded the church and became disguised in the ceremonies and rituals of the little horn of the apostate church in Rome. That is why God allowed pagan Rome to endure so long. God knew...and Paul knew...that "from your own selves, bishops, overseers of the church in the first century, shall arise men speaking perverse things to make disciples for themselves". This happened. Christianity was thriving everywhere, from the main centers of Antioch, Constantinople, Alexandria, Jerusalem and Rome, there spread out a network of communities that in the following 5 or 6 centuries, made its way all the way to China. But in Rome and Alexandria, the "falling away" prevailed that Paul warned of. The church not only embraced paganism, but it also became political. And as a result, two things happened. First, the true gospel was lost under a load of sacramentalism and ritual, with display and theater. Second, because the power of the cross was lost, and the holy Spirit becoming absent, the church had to resort to force and coercion in order to maintain and expand its power and influence. Teaching the truth of scripture was insufficient to convince people to forsake the world and embrace Christ, however, legislation and threats of arms and persecution and war by the hand of the military such as was led by the "first son of the church", Clovis, king of the Franks, and the generally compliant emperors of the east, was by the 6th century well organised and quite sufficient to bring about Papal supremacy and authority over the new "holy Roman empire" which was being brought to the birthing chamber of "Mother".
Daniels prophecies were being brought to pass. Pagan Rome was removed. The ten horns were at war with one another carving out their own little niche in the vacuum, while that pesky little horn that was fast growing among them, had its eyes firmly set on worldly glory and fame.

 

[quietthinker]

Yes. That is precisely what I mean.

Well look at that....all sorts of thing going on and I wasn't informed!

 

[Brakelite]

Well look at that....all sorts of thing going on and I wasn't informed!

Lol. No wonder you're single bro. Gotta read the signs.

 

[quietthinker]

Lol. No wonder you're single bro. Gotta read the signs.

you're right....the girls have always been an enigma.....and rejection a delicate spot.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Sunday was introduced into the church through apostate bishops in the first century, along with other traditions and forms of sun worship. These practices grew until such time as they were enforced by the church. Sabbath keepers, who were by far in the majority outside of Rome and Alexandria, were persecuted.
Now. What you do with that information and how you reconcile it is entirely up to you. But please, don't do the pagan/saturn thing. That's just a nonsense childish undignified throw away argument not worthy of you. You can do better than that. The original Sunday sacredness was not introduced into the church by devout Christians. It was introduced by those bishops Paul was warning about, "that from your own selves shall men arise speaking perverse things to draw disciples away unto themselves." If you want any more evidence that sun worship was introduced into the church in early centuries but after the deaths of the apostles, I would be happy to oblige...or alternatively, take a visit to the Vatican and the numerous cathedrals around Rome and see all the symbolism and art that graphically depict how sun worship is so well integrated into the Catholic church. You observe Sunday because you inherited it from Rome. Looking for it in scripture has long been a lost cause. Even the Catholic church declares that scripture has no mandate or suggestion that Sunday has replaced the Sabbath as a day for rest and worship. They admit, no boast, that Sunday was their responsibility and their addition to Christian faith and practice, because they teach tradition is the equal and in some cases the arbiter of scripture.
That is the history and the context of its introduction into the church. Now Constantine and other emperors had some input, but it was the bishops of the apostate church of Rome who had the far greater influences, and sunday was just one of many improvisations to the Christian faith that were borrowed from paganism. Now of course you have your own reasons for observing Sunday. But in that observation, you willingly are in submission to a dogma and teaching of the Roman apostasy, whether you like it or not.
As for no laws regarding Sunday, be patient. They're coming. Maybe not in the way you expect, but they're coming nevertheless.

Curious what the name of that bishop was and when he was alive.

What I know my dear friend is that we are not under the Old Covenant law, specifically those engraved on stone. Romans 8:2; 2 Corinthians 3:6-11. The laws of God that are written on our heart is LOVE, the higher laws. Love God with all your strength, mind and heart. And love your neighbor as yourself. 1 John 3:23. We are not lawless; we establish the law. But we can only keep these by being baptized in the Holy Spirit. Acts 1:8.

Believing in Jesus is our Rest. It is a spiritual rest, not a physical rest. It is an inner rest, not an outer rest. It is an inner freedom, not a do this or die. This is why the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Eternal life. And in receiving these laws of love, and abiding in Jesus, and He inside us, there is no way we have any desire to break any of the surface laws of the letter that were engraved on stone.

What I want to know from you is what do you believe Jesus did regarding sin for us. That is the gospel. Exactly what are we free from? As I recall, the SDA preached we are free from punishment. That Jesus died so we wouldn't have to. Is that the truth that will set us free. The truth is the gospel. Read John 8:32-36

 

[CharismaticLady]

you're right....the girls have always been an enigma.....and rejection a delicate spot.

Hi dear, men are from Mars, and women are from Venus. We're miles apart. I know about as much about men and why they do things, as you know about women. LOL

 

[VictoryinJesus]

2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. [7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. [8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

My question concerning: now you know what withholds (restrains) that he might be revealed in his time
…until he be taken out of the way.
And then that wicked shall be revealed.
Whom the Lord shall consume with the brightness of His coming?

1) if the Spirit of God is the restrainer that restrains…the one who withholds …until the Spirit of God is taken out of the way …then what or who reveals; uncovers, makes manifest or reveals in “And then that wicked one, that man of sin is revealed”? If the Spirit of God is the one restraining to be taken out of the way …then what good is “and then that man of sin is revealed” when there is no light?

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

My question concerning: now you know what withholds (restrains) that he might be revealed in his time
…until he be taken out of the way.
And then that wicked shall be revealed.
Whom the Lord shall consume with the brightness of His coming?

1) if the Spirit of God is the restrainer that restrains…the one who withholds …until the Spirit of God is taken out of the way …then what or who reveals; uncovers, makes manifest or reveals in “And then that wicked one, that man of sin is revealed”? If the Spirit of God is the one restraining to be taken out of the way …then what good is “and then that man of sin is revealed” when there is no light?

Which leads to another question. If the Spirit of God is the restrainer taken out of the way, then why is the Spirit of God the One coming where His presence and brightness consumes and destroys that man of sin then revealed? Is God taking Himself out of the way and coming in brightness at the same time?
Ephesians 5:12-14 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. [13] But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. [14] Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

John 3:19-21 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

yet what is often proposed is it is the Light which restrains and keeps that man of sin from “and then that man of sin is revealed”…instead of it being the darkness which restrains …hinders…prevents….withholds…the Light of the gospel of Christ “lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”

2 Corinthians 4:2-4 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of (Christ)the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. [3] But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: [4] In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

It seems it is the god of this world which restrains, prevents, hinders, persecuting the way where Christ said I am the way. The god of this world withholds the Light while God who is gracious and full of mercy said How much more He will give the gift of the Holy Spirit (A Lamp, Light) to those who ask. It seems it is the god of this world that restrains and hinders as He said to the Pharisees not only do you not enter in to the kingdom of God, but you do not suffer others to enter in. It seems it is the god of this world who is to be taken out of the way …then that man of sin is revealed whom God destroys and consumes with the brightness of His coming, while Christ is glorified in those whom the glorious light of the gospel of Christ shined unto. We say, or it is prosed time and time again the Holy Spirit is the restrainer that hinders or withholds and prevents until He…the Spirit of God is taken out of the way. And then that man of sin, that evil one is revealed. It Makes no sense. Luke 11:33-36 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light. [34] The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness. [35] Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness. [36] If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.

We propose to be the Light the world …to let the Light Shine. But at the same time say the Spirit of God is the restrainer of Light? Instead of the restrainer which makes blind is the darkness; that hinders and blinds that they stumble and know not what they stumble over…that is to be taken up or away or removed…as in take up the stumbling block from before My people …see that you cast not a stumbling block before the blind that they stumble in the way.

is it not the god of this world which restrains until he be taken out of the way …then that man of sin is revealed(made manifest) (by His coming) whom the God of all things present and to come destroys and consumes with the brightness of His coming.

 

[farouk]

Ohhhh ok....thanks for explaining this.
Learned something new today

@Heart2Soul Hadn't heard it put quite in that way before...

 

[Brakelite]

And in receiving these laws of love, and abiding in Jesus, and He inside us, there is no way we have any desire to break any of the surface laws of the letter that were engraved on stone.

Except the 4th. There doesn't seem to be any issue with breaking the 4th. Whereas I suggest if one is truly filled with the holy Spirit, there is no issue with remembering it.

That is the gospel. Exactly what are we free from? As I recall, the SDA preached we are free from punishment

Yes, and much more. Free from the dominion of sin. No longer does the sin nature have power. Since Calvary, God now has the legal right to intervene in the lives of His people. Overcoming is not only possible, but guaranteed, so long as the believer is abiding in Christ. So while the punishment of sin is dealt with which is nice, even better is the power to obey those Commandments so punishment never again becomes an issue.

 

[quietthinker]

Hi dear, men are from Mars, and women are from Venus. We're miles apart. I know about as much about men and why they do things, as you know about women. LOL

I've been waiting to be edumacated but it looks like I've missed my run

 

[Brakelite]

I've been waiting to be edumacated but it looks like I've missed my run

But that's what this thread is about. Shedding light on mysteries.

 

[Curtis]

Enjoyed reading this....it certainly fits with how God operates....Rome conquered and destroyed Jerusalem....and rose to power. Now God is undoing what they have done and caused the church to become.

So the earliest quote from the church fathers you have on that, is several hundred years after the New Testament was written?

Nothing from John of Patmos’ disciples Ignatius and Polycarp?

Nothing from Barnabas? Any first or second century sources at all?

The restrainer is a HE. Do historians or bible scholars refer to the Roman Empire as a HE?

IMO the Roman Empire - being itself evil - did not, and could not, hold BACK or restrain anything evil at all.

 

[Curtis]

There is widespread belief in the Muslim world that Jews want to demolish Jerusalem’s flashpoint, Al-Aqsa Mosque, and build a temple for themselves.

Statements by radical groups and Jewish settlers’ raids on the Al-Aqsa Mosque have strengthened that notion.

Dozens of settlers, escorted by police, forced their way into the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound on Wednesday and toured the area, according to the Islamic Endowments Authority.

Since 2003, Israel has allowed settlers into the flashpoint compound almost daily with exceptions on Fridays and Saturdays.

Anadolu Agency asked Jews in occupied East Jerusalem if they wanted to demolish the mosque.

Raziella Harpaz, a religious activist said he has no such an intention because “God will do it.”

“God will extinguish the existing Al-Aqsa Mosque and bring a third temple down to earth in its place,” he said. “Everything, including Al-Aqsa, belongs to the Jews because God created the world only for his holy beloved people, the Jews.”

US-born college student Nina Shelanski does not believe that Al-Aqsa should be completely under Jewish control.

“I think the majority of Israelis are satisfied with the current situation, but some ultra-Orthodox groups want Israel to take full control of the Al-Aqsa and the West Bank. Unfortunately, these small groups want to drown out our voices,” she said.

Shelanski highlighted that those groups have a big influence on Israeli politics despite making up a small fraction of the population.

Rabbi Ravay Moyal Mikhael also said he does not support the effort. “Israeli people do not pursue such a goal. They need peace,” he said.

Moti Khouyzag, a student at a Yeshiva, said the second coming of Jesus will make way for the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple in the place of the Al-Aqsa mosque.

“We never believe we should do anything about this building. We have no intention of burning it down or shutting it down,” said Khouyzag.

Al-Aqsa Mosque is the world's third-holiest site for Muslims. Jews call the area the "Temple Mount," claiming it was the site of two Jewish temples in ancient times.

Israel occupied East Jerusalem, where Al-Aqsa is located, during the 1967 Arab-Israeli War. It annexed the entire city in 1980 in a move never recognized by the international community.

*Writing by Zehra Nur Duz

Isn’t it amazing that the third holiest site for Muslims, Jerusalem is not mentioned even once in the Quran?

Probably not mentioned because it’s an interloper, being put in the Israeli city of Jerusalem, their city, and on their Temple Mount - because someone claimed Mohammed’s horse that he rode to heaven, briefly touched down there.

Thus they claim possession of that which is not theirs to possess.

BTW, Jerusalem is mentioned 626 times in the Jewish scriptures, and zero in the Quran.

 

[quietthinker]

But that's what this thread is about. Shedding light on mysteries.

you mean there might still be hope for brown ducks and old men?