The Restrainer

[Phoneman777]

KJV versus Modern Translations

 

[Phoneman777]

You mean like you believe the Holy Spirit revealed truth to Ellen G White?

God's remnant church would "have the testimony of Jesus" which is "the spirit of prophecy".

 

[Harvest 1874]

if the Papacy as a system, answers to the criteria as the Antichrist, that removes your problem with the restrainer being pagan Rome and the Antichrist rising immediately after and lasting throughout history until he's thrown into the lake of fire.

There is no doubt that Papacy (the system) is the Antichrist and that Pagan Rome was what was restraining or inhibiting its rise to prominence and power. See "Our Lord's Great Prophecy, Part 26", in regards to 2 Thessalonians Chapter 2 on this specific issue.

 

[Nancy]

Amen to that! We take so much for granted. Here in the U.S. we can worship freely without persecution excpet for maybe some leftists mocking or cursing at us, but in other countries, it is a deadly danger to be a Christian.

Yep...it is the third world countries that really cherish Gods Word. And, it is also they who are the ones who are persecuted horrendously.
I am talking about our own missionaries and their families as well as the inhabitants. I can easily see miracles taking place in those small pockets of the world as, they have a strong faith (many do).

 

[CoreIssue]

Not all of it. And let's not pretend Erasmus was the typical papist. He was a seeker of truth. He sought to EXPOSE the errors of papal Western Family MSS. In 1516, he published a revolutionary Bible format which had on each page both the Greek and the Latin, the one facing the other, so that comparisons of the two could easily be made.

He said blasphemously, "Latin scholarship, however elaborate, is maimed and reduced by half without Greek. For whereas we Latins have but a few small streams, a few muddy pools, the Greek possess crystal clear springs and rivers that run with gold."

Erasmus said the Vulgate was so corrupt, he published a new Latin translation based on the Greek. When he published his dual language Bible, the corrupted Latin was on full display.

Such words would have easily earned someone a trip to the stake. For instance, the Greek says, "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" but the corrupted Latin said, "Unless you do penance, ye shall all likewise perish" - salvation by works.

KJV versus Modern Translations

 

[brakelite]

1 Peter 5:8 doesn't speak about Satan being bound or being able to deceive or not deceive anyone. It speaks of him seeking to devour people. Amillennialists don't say that Satan's 'binding' in Rev 20 stops his complete action in human history. When read, we see the passage only speaks about him being bound against deceiving the nations. That still leaves a fair bit of purview to him.
As for when he is bound...how do you reconcile Matt 12 and what Christ is talking about there?
The problem with saying that Rev 20 sees Satan bound for a 1000 years before he is tossed, finally defeated, death and Hades following him, into the Lake of fire...is 1 Cor 15.
1 Cor 15 tells us that AT Christ's return, and AT believers recieving of their resurrection bodies, THEN death is defeated. THEN ALL powers, authorities and names are also defeated. Under these descriptions would include Satan and death. 'Defeated' does not mean...put aside to bother us again during a millennium and just after it. It means, defeated...done...gone. Lake of Fire gone.
And in Rev 20, this is most certainly AFTER the millennium.
And that puts Satan's solid and final defeat AT Christ's return. Which means IF he was to be bound at any point, it would have to be before Christ's return.
Both scripture and logic determine it.

Just perusing a little over this thread again, and read this again, and would like to answer it, although I don't know if anyone did later.
But anyway....some things I agree with

• Satan is bound for 1000 years.
• He is tossed into the lake of fire at the end of that 1000 years, thus cannot be any time else
• At the second coming, God's people from all ages are raised, and those who are alive are changed...for them, no more death.

Things I disagree with....

• That 1 Corinthians 15 infers the end of the devil
• And that therefore the lake of fire must be at the second coming.
• And therefore the 1000 years must finish at the second coming.

Here is the sequence of events as I see them, and you can judge whether it is according to the Bible or not...

• Satan not bound now. Has had limited reign as prince of the power of the air since usurping kingship of the planet from Adam.
• Lost all legal rights to that title at Calvary.
• Maintains tenacious grip over the planet while he still lives...is in denial of the legalities until such time as he is physically removed...at the end of the millennium.
• Christ comes. He does not touch the ground. The saints meet Him in the air, and all the saints, both past and present, are glorified.
• Saints spend 1000 years ruling and reigning with Christ in heaven, judging angels and finding out all the answers to questions which will completely satisfy them as to God's purposes and God is completely vindicated in all things.
• The earth is ruined by the ravages of war, the plagues, and overwhelming natural disasters of the previous 6000 years of desolation which leaves the earth empty, void, desolate, as per many passages of scripture. Satan is bound by circumstances that prohibit his influence and power
• During this time he is left alone to contemplate all he has been responsible for throughout history. This is not remedial, but part of his ultimate sentencing.
• At the end of the 1000 years, all the saints return to the earth in the city New Jerusalem which settles on its former site now made a plain.
• It is surrounded by the devil,now loosed having people to tempt again which he does by inciting his demons and all the resurrected wicked, who together face their final sentencing for sin
• That sentence is precisely what the Bible warns them of...death.
• In desperation, they, Gog and Magog, attack the city in order to overtake it...their only hope...
• fire rains down and destroys them all according to their deeds done while on this earth. Satan of course will suffer the longer. This is the lake of fire. It is on the earth. It is only temporary until such time as it is devoid of anything to burn.
• Thus the earth is now cleansed completely of all its pollutants...the universe is cleansed of all sin and sinners...and now God has a blank canvas to recreate the new heavens and the new earth...which the meek shall inherit...and the earth becomes the capital of the universe with the throne of God and the Lamb in it.
• And praise God there is no continuing "hell" anywhere to mar the universe of God by its constant suffering and cursing and evil. The wages of sin truly is death.

Under the above scenario, there is no need of a prost millenium second coming...pre-trib rapture.

 

[CoreIssue]

Care to provide information on who spreadingdword is?.

Anonymous doesn't work.

 

[CoreIssue]

God's remnant church would "have the testimony of Jesus" which is "the spirit of prophecy".

So the SDA thinks it is a remnant church.

Sounds like Mormon and other cult claims.

 

[brakelite]

Amen to that! We take so much for granted. Here in the U.S. we can worship freely without persecution excpet for maybe some leftists mocking or cursing at us, but in other countries, it is a deadly danger to be a Christian.

Can I suggest that the reason there is no real persecution in western nations is because the Christianity practiced there is no threat...in fact so favourable to the devil he is quite happy to see it continue?

 

[CoreIssue]

Can I suggest that the reason there is no real persecution in western nations is because the Christianity practiced there is no threat...in fact so favourable to the devil he is quite happy to see it continue?

Canada and the EU have laws criminalizing Christianity.

There are times of persecution by atheists others.

Take the blindfold of SDA off and look around.

 

[brakelite]

Amen to that! We take so much for granted. Here in the U.S. we can worship freely without persecution excpet for maybe some leftists mocking or cursing at us, but in other countries, it is a deadly danger to be a Christian.

And that for the greatest part the reason why leftists abuse and mock Christians is because Christians act like nincompoops and deserve what they get.

 

[CoreIssue]

And that for the greatest part the reason why leftists abuse and mock Christians is because Christians act like nincompoops and deserve what they get.

I'll stick with what the Bible says. It says it is because they hate us and the God we worship.

 

[brakelite]

Canada and the EU have laws criminalizing Christianity.

There are times of persecution by atheists others.

Take the blindfold of SDA off and look around.

What Americans call "persecution" the Chinese Christians would call a minor inconvenience...the Ghanian Christians would call a blessing...and the Ethiopian Christians would call a delight and a pleasure.

 

[CoreIssue]

What Americans call "persecution" the Chinese Christians would call a minor inconvenience...the Ghanian Christians would call a blessing...and the Ethiopian Christians would call a delight and a pleasure.

There are many degrees of persecution.

persecution
noun
per·se·cu·tion | \ ˌpər-si-ˈkyü-shən

\
Definition of persecution
1 : the act or practice of persecuting especially those who differ in origin, religion, or social outlook
2 : the condition of being persecuted, harassed, or annoyed

 

[brakelite]

I know @CoreIssue what the Bible says. It says that we should consider ourselves blessed if we are persecuted for righteousness sake. I simply question whatever you are currently going through, persecution?

 

[CoreIssue]

I know @CoreIssue what the Bible says. It says that we should consider ourselves blessed if we are persecuted for righteousness sake. I simply question whatever you are currently going through, persecution?

But you said we were not persecute in the West.

 

[brakelite]

But you said we were not persecute in the West.

To a great extent, I said. What most Christians are going through in the west cannot be called persecution, as it has nothing to do with their faith, or their witness, or their lifestyles of righteousness and model behaviour. Because what they are facing is merely ridicule for being stupid nincompoops. Not because they truly represent Jesus. It is one thing to be abused and mocked for your right living and your good moral example...that is persecution. It is quite another when abused and mocked for being idiots. That is not persecution.

 

[Naomi25]

The 1 Peter 5:8 and Revelation 20:1-3 passages are clear that Satan is not... bound yet today. The time of his being literally bound is when the resurrection happens at Jesus' 2nd coming.

There is a huge... difference between our Lord Jesus on earth showing His power over Satan, and giving His Church the ability to cast out demons during this present world and His Kingdom in the world to come. You can turn and twist Scripture all you like to try and force it into a doctrine of men like Amillennialism, etc., but it just won't work.

You SAY I'm twisting the scriptures, but am I really? You say that there is a 'huge' difference between Jesus 'showing his power over Satan' and 'giving his Church the ability to cast of demons'...in other words, authority over them and Revelation saying that Satan is bound against decieving the Nations.
But truly...what is the purpose of both Matt 12 and Luke 10? Is it so Christ's earthly Kingdom can come now? No...obviously not. Is it so Christians will not be persecuted and martyred ever again? Clearly not.
The obvious purpose of both those passages is the gospel. Christ came to save the lost. He sends his disciples out to preach 'the kingdom of heaven', which is the good news of Christ...repent and believe in him. It is THIS message that the 'Strongman' is bound against stopping, of which the demons cannot stand against or have authority over.
And honestly, when we look at Revelation 20, and the implications of 'not being able to deceive the nations'...and what clearly happens when that ban is lifted..."he gathered them together for battle against the Saints"...
Then...I don't see it as a twisting...more like a logical conclusion.

 

[Naomi25]

I agree totally. If half the human race had been sensitive-little-flower, "beta males" down through the centuries, would we have survived as a species? The God-given role of protector and provider blesses a man's family and community, and ultimately him as well, as he gains the respect of his family and community. That is the only route to having self-respect for men or women--doing what is right. What is called, "toxic masculinity" is really just sin.

By the same token, this new brand of "feminism" is what I would call "toxic femininity." It is also, in reality, just sin. Convincing some women that abortion is good for them has made those women who are so-convinced, into emotional wrecks. Abortion is evil and anyone who promotes it is participating in genocide--they might as well be Nazi exterminators. In a more moral world, if a woman (or girl) was not ready, willing or able to care for a child, she would give the infant to others who are ready, willing and able to do so. Killing life is not a role that women readily adapt to and any woman will suffer greatly for taking it on. She either suffers for years with guilt and depression or she deadens herself to the pain and suffers even more--having fits of anger toward anyone who suggests that it damaged her. Even though she often doesn't realize the source of her suffering--the abomination of abortion--the damage occurs nonetheless. In a more moral world, men would take on the responsibility of protecting women from making such disastrous choices and protecting their unborn children. Adam was there with Eve in the Garden--he should have tried to protect her from falling.

Absolutely! The feminist movement is terrible! And men who try and join up are a joke and are doing, I think, the same thing Adam did...standing back...or even supporting...while women charge headlong into places they shouldn't go.
Now, don't get me wrong...I'm all for biblical equality, but the latest wave of 'men are terrible, if we women shriek the loudest surely we shall prevail!, it's our bodies let's kill anything and everything that comes near it' feminism makes me sick.
Everybody just needs to hush down a bit and read some bible!

 

[bbyrd009]

Not all of it. And let's not pretend Erasmus was the typical papist. He was a seeker of truth. He sought to EXPOSE the errors of papal Western Family MSS. In 1516, he published a revolutionary Bible format which had on each page both the Greek and the Latin, the one facing the other, so that comparisons of the two could easily be made.

He said blasphemously, "Latin scholarship, however elaborate, is maimed and reduced by half without Greek. For whereas we Latins have but a few small streams, a few muddy pools, the Greek possess crystal clear springs and rivers that run with gold."

Erasmus said the Vulgate was so corrupt, he published a new Latin translation based on the Greek. When he published his dual language Bible, the corrupted Latin was on full display.

Such words would have easily earned someone a trip to the stake. For instance, the Greek says, "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" but the corrupted Latin said, "Unless you do penance, ye shall all likewise perish" - salvation by works.

well, ty for opening Erasmus for me