The rich man and the beggar at his gate?

[Renniks]

well i think the point is its kinda cheating to say he went to what we now call heaven, the place ppl hope to attain after they have died
and ya the status thing is weird there for elijah huh

Where else did he go? And where did Enoch go? I was joking about him being a rock star of course.

 

[bbyrd009]

Where else did he go? And where did Enoch go?

without violating No one has ever gone up to heaven i cant say; caught up in a whirlwind makes rather uncomfortable imagery actually? "Rock Star" might even kind of apply lol; made into an icon, elevated?

 

[Renniks]

without violating No one has ever gone up to heaven i cant say; caught up in a whirlwind makes rather uncomfortable imagery actually? "Rock Star" might even kind of apply lol; made into an icon, elevated?

Only Jesus wasn't saying that at all.
3:13. In this context, the point of verse 13 is that no one has ever gone into heaven and then come back to earth with the ability to give clear teaching about divine matters. The one exception is Jesus who is the Son of Man (Dan. 7:13; Matt. 26:64). He is the “Ladder” between heaven and earth with access to both realms (see John 3:31 and 6:38). He “descended” in the Incarnation and “ascended” in the Ascension. He also was in heaven before the Incarnation, and therefore knows the divine mysteries. Elijah was taken into heaven, but he has not returned.

 

[Waiting on him]

Only Jesus wasn't saying that at all.
3:13. In this context, the point of verse 13 is that no one has ever gone into heaven and then come back to earth with the ability to give clear teaching about divine matters. The one exception is Jesus who is the Son of Man (Dan. 7:13; Matt. 26:64). He is the “Ladder” between heaven and earth with access to both realms (see John 3:31 and 6:38). He “descended” in the Incarnation and “ascended” in the Ascension. He also was in heaven before the Incarnation, and therefore knows the divine mysteries. Elijah was taken into heaven, but he has not returned.

Revelation 4:1-2 KJV
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. [2] And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

 

[Waiting on him]

Jacobs ladder, so much for a fixed gulf

 

[bbyrd009]

Only Jesus wasn't saying that at all.
3:13. In this context, the point of verse 13 is that no one has ever gone into heaven and then come back to earth with the ability to give clear teaching about divine matters. The one exception is Jesus who is the Son of Man (Dan. 7:13; Matt. 26:64). He is the “Ladder” between heaven and earth with access to both realms (see John 3:31 and 6:38). He “descended” in the Incarnation and “ascended” in the Ascension. He also was in heaven before the Incarnation, and therefore knows the divine mysteries. Elijah was taken into heaven, but he has not returned.

meh, go with that then, as long as you understand that you can't Quote any of that, and in fact you have to ignore a lot of other Scripture for that to remain true, No son of man may die for another's sins, you and your sons will be here with me, There is only One Immortal, you will see Him come down the same way you saw Him go up, and i guess for you to have the possibility of attaining a place called heaven after you have died, some other ppl have to go to "hell" after death, right, even though you cant Quote that either, so if you dig a pit for others, you end up in it yourself, not even considering that we are no way talking about life, more abundantly now at all, are we? Arent we all waiting for literal death for our "eternal life" to begin now? Death, More Abundantly?

Instead Jesus becomes a Human Sacrifice for a capricious Yah that was only joking @ I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and we are left to wonder why all our kids are into zombies and sex changes imo, Rennicks, but hey at least you get to hold on to your "beliefs" right, which no offense but they are sure sounding like Absolute Truths to me, the way you are saying them? I mean, no offense, but what if one--a single one--of all those "facts" you are so sure of up there turns out to not be true? Beware the thief in the night kinda takes on a personal meaning then i guess huh.

So i mean i dunno ok, but ima stick with the Awful Truth for now, No one has ever gone up to heaven {ouranos, singular, "and nearly as often used in the plural ("heavens"). 'The singular and plural have distinct overtones and therefore should be distinguished in translation (though unfortunately they rarely are)' (G. Archer)} but He Who came down from it, the son of man and maybe we can discuss what Mithraism and the Cult of Sol Invictus are doing in your belief system some other time? Your bargain with death will be annulled tho, i'm pretty sure

 

[bbyrd009]

Revelation 4:1-2 KJV
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. [2] And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

so, unlike Paul's experience where he admits he does not know whether he was in the body or out of it--which im also pretty sure was just a literary device, and he knew exactly what he was writing--here we are told straight up at the very beginning vision, right, I was in the spirit, but our desires as Esau are so overpowering i guess that that just doesnt matter or something, and there is By God going to be more than One Immortal in heaven by the time everything is over with, at least if we have anything to say about it, right?

so look, i cant argue with that logic ok, but i sure suggest yall maybe think up a Plan B, or realize that the only way the Bible allowin you into heaven (singular) is if you have a vision, too, almost surely, The kingdom of heaven is within you right, and see Jesus is not a liar, whereas us, not so much i guess sometimes

As Jesus was getting into the boat, the man who had been demon-possessed begged to go with him.
Jesus did not let him, but said, "Go home to your own people and tell them how much the Lord has done for you, and how he has had mercy on you."
So the man went away and began to tell in the Decapolis (which is where we are, right now, dont even need a vision to see that right) how much Jesus had done for him.

 

[Renniks]

Jacobs ladder, so much for a fixed gulf

Yes Jesus is the ladder, the way to enter, not from hell into heaven, but from Earth to heaven.

 

[bbyrd009]

Only Jesus wasn't saying that at all.

i mean pls, Rennicks, no offense but see now you are speaking as if you know, right

 

[Renniks]

meh, go with that then, as long as you understand that you can't Quote any of that, and in fact you have to ignore a lot of other Scripture for that to remain true, No son of man may die for another's sins, you and your sons will be here with me, There is only One Immortal, you will see Him come down the same way you saw Him go up, and i guess for you to have the possibility of attaining a place called heaven after you have died, some other ppl have to go to "hell" after death, right, even though you cant Quote that either, so if you dig a pit for others, you end up in it yourself, not even considering that we are no way talking about life, more abundantly now at all, are we? Arent we all waiting for literal death for our "eternal life" to begin now? Death, More Abundantly?

Instead Jesus becomes a Human Sacrifice for a capricious Yah that was only joking @ I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and we are left to wonder why all our kids are into zombies and sex changes imo, Rennicks, but hey at least you get to hold on to your "beliefs" right, which no offense but they are sure sounding like Absolute Truths to me, the way you are saying them? I mean, no offense, but what if one--a single one--of all those "facts" you are so sure of up there turns out to not be true? Beware the thief in the night kinda takes on a personal meaning then i guess huh.

So i mean i dunno ok, but ima stick with the Awful Truth for now, No one has ever gone up to heaven {ouranos, singular, "and nearly as often used in the plural ("heavens"). 'The singular and plural have distinct overtones and therefore should be distinguished in translation (though unfortunately they rarely are)' (G. Archer)} but He Who came down from it, the son of man and maybe we can discuss what Mithraism and the Cult of Sol Invictus are doing in your belief system some other time? Your bargain with death will be annulled tho, i'm pretty sure

"The red moose backwards under the full moon if you speak nonsense fluently. "

That's about as sensible as your convoluted posts. Can't make heads or tails from them.

 

[bbyrd009]

That's about as sensible as your convoluted posts. Can't make heads or tails from them.

ok, ill take a look at that, ty

 

[VictoryinJesus]

so, unlike Paul's experience where he admits he does not know whether he was in the body or out of it

This caused a great pause. 1 Corinthians 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

 

[Renniks]

Instead Jesus becomes a Human Sacrifice for a capricious Yah that was only joking @ I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and we are left to wonder why all our kids are into zombies and sex changes imo, Rennicks, but hey at least you get to hold on to your "beliefs" right, which no offense but they are sure sounding like Absolute Truths to me, the way you are saying them? I mean, no offense, but what if one--a single one--of all those "facts" you are so sure of up there turns out to not be true? Beware the thief in the night kinda takes on a personal meaning then i guess huh.

Ok, I'm trying to understand what you are saying here, but I'm not quite getting it." Jesus becomes a human sacrifice for a capricious yah?"

In what world? Simply because I confirm that believers go to heaven when they die and others go to hell? Is your whole point here to deny hell? I don't get it.

 

[101G]

@101G I believe the difference is we have the narrative?

Yes, and much more, I'm just about finish, God has cut my work in half, and now it just putting it all together.

but not only, "the prodigal son", but, "the man, who was sick of the palsy", in Matthew 9:1-8.
I was up working on this, this morning, and I want you to notice something, when you have time, you are correct in the similarities of the rich man clothed in purple and fine linen, to what is written in Revelation 18, especially at verses 12 & 16. and with the rich man "torment" look at verses 10 and 15 of the same chapter.

but the thing that open up my understanding of "Son" was this, Luke 16:20 "And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores," this was in stalk contrast to the rich man in clothed in purple and fine linen. and if you noice also all the "TWO" sons used else where in the bible are usually in contrast to each other also in scriptures.

but when I put it all together I'll post it.

so be blessed

PICJAG.

 

[bbyrd009]

Simply because I confirm that believers go to heaven when they die and others go to hell?

ok well how do you "confirm" this if i may ask? Isn't that what we usually call a "belief?" Bc technically we do not yet know what we will become, right?

 

[bbyrd009]

Ok, I'm trying to understand what you are saying here, but I'm not quite getting it." Jesus becomes a human sacrifice for a capricious yah?"

well, did Yah say I desire mercy, not sacrifice or not, Rennicks? Did He change His mind, somewhere along the way? No son of man may die for another's sins is OT, right, maybe that has been annulled? Or i mean why is that in There do you think? You and your sons will be here with me prolly, just like Samuel said, but i admit that i dont really know what that means i guess. But gimme some of that red stew, for i am so hungry i am about to die i think i am getting now. Jews even have a rep for being master-sellers, huh?

So fwiw i dont blame you even a little bit for any "beliefs" you might happen to currently hold, beliefs are awesome imo, show me a Christian with any "beliefs" and ill show you a guy willing to change his mind, i guess. And i have met a couple. in the last 45 years. Two. And im not one of them i guess either lol

 

[Waiting on him]

Yes, and much more, I'm just about finish, God has cut my work in half, and now it just putting it all together.

but not only, "the prodigal son", but, "the man, who was sick of the palsy", in Matthew 9:1-8.
I was up working on this, this morning, and I want you to notice something, when you have time, you are correct in the similarities of the rich man clothed in purple and fine linen, to what is written in Revelation 18, especially at verses 12 & 16. and with the rich man "torment" look at verses 10 and 15 of the same chapter.

but the thing that open up my understanding of "Son" was this, Luke 16:20 "And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores," this was in stalk contrast to the rich man in clothed in purple and fine linen. and if you noice also all the "TWO" sons used else where in the bible are usually in contrast to each other also in scriptures.

but when I put it all together I'll post it.

so be blessed

PICJAG.

In Matthew 9 verse 8 is particularly interesting to me.

 

[Enoch111]

Ok, I'm trying to understand what you are saying here, but I'm not quite getting it." Jesus becomes a human sacrifice for a capricious yah?"

If you haven't caught on to the fact that *groper* bbyrd009 is simply jerking your chain, then you are doomed to having him go round and round with you.

 

[101G]

In Matthew 9 verse 8 is particularly interesting to me.

YES, for this is in line with verse 2. the POWER to heal, not only in a Physical sense, no, but also in a spiritual sense. listen, Isaiah 53:5 "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."

now, what do the man sick of the palsy have in common with Lazarus the beggar? both was "Lame", or poor in spirit. listen, Luke 16:20 "And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,". both was "carried" by others... (smile).

now, I'll stop here because you are going to get most of the answer here on this Spiritual teaching.

PICJAG.

 

[Waiting on him]

YES, for this is in line with verse 2. the POWER to heal, not only in a Physical sense, no, but also in a spiritual sense. listen, Isaiah 53:5 "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."

now, what do the man sick of the palsy have in common with Lazarus the beggar? both was "Lame", or poor in spirit. listen, Luke 16:20 "And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,". both was "carried" by others... (smile).

now, I'll stop here because you are going to get most of the answer here on this Spiritual teaching.

PICJAG.

I fail to see it, Jesus calls the man sick with the palsy Son. Does this imply born of God, the resurrection had not occurred?